[Bart Bradley]

Does this fundamental personality difference affect the way we interact with golf, the setting and the architecture?  If we know ourselves, how should we temper our reactions based on our relative degree of introvertedness/extrovertedness?

Bart

[Dan Herrmann]

Bart,  
If we use Myers-Briggs, I think the other 3 variants are more important:
Subjective vs Intuitive
Feeling vs Thinking
Percptive vs Judgiing.

I'm an ENFP, and I know I am much more into the artistic side of GCA than an *STJ would be.  I'd even say that I'd like quirk a LOT more than an ISTJ would.

Also see http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,20187.0/  This old thread didn't get any responses on the DG but I did get some good private replies that provided fantastic insight.  Obviously, those remarks will remain private.

[Tim Bert]

And what does your type tell you about the courses you'll like?  I'm an ENFP, and my favorites are courses like Pacific Dunes and French Creek.  

ISTJ here.  Pacific Dunes is one of my very favorites.  Only played French Creek once, but enjoyed it.

I'm an ENFP, and I know I am much more into the artistic side of GCA than an *STJ would be.  I'd even say that I'd like quirk a LOT more than an ISTJ would.

Amongst my favorite courses - Pacific Dunes, Ballyneal, Kingsley... no quirk there!   


Here's a question - do architects unwittingly design courses for their own Myers-Briggs counterparts, much like they sometimes design courses to the strengths of their game.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Um, gee, gosh, I don't know......(looks at toes)  Maybe, ah, well, geez, I just don't know gosh durnit.

[Tom_Doak]

Do you think most architects are introverts or extroverts?

[Ben Sims]

Do you think most architects are introverts or extroverts?

Socially introverted and professionally extroverted.  If there is such a thing.  Of the architects I've met, I'd say there were marked introverted tendencies in each--yes even Mike Young.  Or maybe y'all aren't introverted at all and I'm just extroverted to max capacity.  Either way, it's a trait that has really grabbed my attention.  I find that "operators"--like me--are usually extroverted and the "artists" are more introverted.  For what that's worth. 

In golf, I think that the personality traits that make one good at seeking information and experience, inherently make one bad at objective evaluation.  Excitability and gregariousness aren't the best traits to possess when trying to objectively identify good, better, and truly great.  Or as Huckaby would say, "beard puller vs. golfer". 

[Tim Bert]

It can be tough to identify some introverts in their comfort zone as many introverts become extroverted in small bursts, particularly amongst small groups of people they know well or in settings where they are the expert. While there are the obvious look at you shoes kind of introverts there are many that are not like this. An introvert can always look extroverted in any setting - the big difference is that the introvert is usually drained of energy in many situations where the extrovert is fueled.

Based on very limited live interaction with 4 architects that take part on this site I would guess that I've met two introverts and two extroverts.  I would guess that more would be introverts than extroverts. 

[Dan Herrmann]

I'd think there would be more introverts too.  I think Ben Sims hit the nail on the head.

[Carl Rogers]

Myers-Briggs wise I am an INTP (tiny percentage of the population ... good if you are in a design field).
True to type, I think, work, assimilate, prioritize and observe by myself for an extended period before I seek the opinions of others. 

Golf wise, I have come to realize I am not as left brained as I thought I was.

[Adam Clayman]

Seems formulaic, if I understood what the hell you guys are talking about.

[Mike Sweeney]

Seems formulaic, if I understood what the hell you guys are talking about.

http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/mbti-basics/extraversion-or-introversion.asp

[TEPaul]

Bart:

On a question like yours one should probably consider that given golf architects have only been around for something like 160 years max and then given the fact that of the sum total of all of them over that timespan the ones who can be arguably considered significant is a much smaller number, I would say that what I know from the bios and such of that latter number that their personality types and personality traits and such spans the spectrum of all personality types and traits perhaps more completely and comprehensively than any other single profession I'm aware of.

That is one thing, but for some years now there has been something else in the back of my mind which I might describe at this point as an X Factor about which I have only had a feeling there may be an unusually high incidence of with perhaps that group of GCA's most significant architects. But at this point, I think I would prefer not to even describe it much less try to quantify it. For the time being I would prefer to think only that given the approximate number I have in mind that it very well just may not be a large enough sampling to make a reasonable deduction from.

[Bart Bradley]

All very interesting answers....perhaps the most interesting thing is how few of these answers addressed the question.  I didn't ask if architects were introverts or extroverts.  I asked if YOU were an introvert or extrovert and how that affected your evaluation of courses.  For example, do you like courses where there is a convergence of holes and the chance to see the groups several holes ahead of you?  If so, is it because you are an extrovert and draw strength for being with others and crowds?  

Bart

[Matt_Ward]

Ben:

Great comment ...

"Socially introverted and professionally extroverted."

[Tim Bert]

Ben:

Great comment ...

"Socially introverted and professionally extroverted."

I don't think this is unique to golf course architects.  As I mentioned before, almost all introverts appear to be extroverted in some settings.

[Peter Pallotta]

Bart - it is an interesting question, but for me the most interesting part is why you might think it necessary/important that we "temper our reactions [to a course/golf course architecture] based on our relative degree of intravertedness/extravertedness".

Do you think that such tempering of our inate psychological tendencies would produce a more "truthfu"l or "objective" assessment of that architecture?  

(Do you think the reverse is true, i.e. that if we don't factor-in our own ways of seeing/being in the world, we can't convey to others an accurate/meaningful assessment?)

Peter

[Adam Clayman]

Bart, Thanks to Sweens, I have the fundamental definitions. I found it odd that a person could be both, but, I do see that. Afterall few people can answer questions with yes and no, like I can.

As to whether intimacy of a routing would identify a persons type, my personal feeling is that the only separation, that holds water, is one between a game minder and a sportsman. Maybe, within that identification there's a correlation between intra and extra verts?

This year I met my first person who articulated that he preferred not seeing anyone else on the golf course. (separated corridors) So much so that he put his money where his mouth is, by joining a club whose course reflected that. He didn't seem intra-verted in the least.

[Sean_A]

Wow, I am not sure what is going here, but I know I don't understand it.  Am I daft or do others not quite follow this thread or the "logic" of it?  Bart, can you better explain what you are asking or come up with a background for the question(s)? 

Ciao

[Bart Bradley]

Peter:

I think we must always be on guard to look self-critically at our evaluations.  I think personality bias is one that has gotten very little discussion.  I started a thread on intimacy and many of the responses described intimacy, the exact opposite of how I would view it.  I felt that the difference might be personality related.

Adam:

I think that it is very very hard to tell who is truly introverted and extroverted.  People almost universally misjudge which I am.

Bart

[TEPaul]

Bart:

Oh, sorry; I guess I misunderstood your question or else I probably shouldn't have read the other responses before posting. As for me--eg if I'm an introvert or extrovert and how either might affect my course evaluations, I have no idea. I'm the "Crazy Uncle" on here, you know?! I don't know if that means I'm an introvert or extrovert. You should ask Tom MacWood about that as he apparently thinks he knows what I am better than I do anyway. 

[Buck Wolter]

Um, gee, gosh, I don't know......(looks at toes)  Maybe, ah, well, geez, I just don't know gosh durnit.

How can you tell if your GCA is extroverted? ...............He looks at your feet when he talks to you.

[Carl Rogers]

About 12 years ago, I got involved in one of the seminars on Myers-Briggs which is how I took one of their tests and learned my type.  As I remember the Extrovert-Introvert interface was the least important of the four traits.

There are probably some on-line tests out there somewhere ....

[PCCraig]

In my experience, anyone who is creative in their professional life tends to be introverted in their personal life. I've met and hung around some of the funniest actors in the world and once off stage...they're quiet and reserved (however you always have a sense they are observing everything).

The same could be said for golf course architects, which are generally creative people. But I'm afraid I haven't met enough architects to generalize how they act away from the course or construction site.

[Tim Bert]

A little bit of a sidetrack, but one thing I find very interesting is the the number of "online extroverts" modern times have created.  I'm sure you've all met more than one person whose online, email, or discussion forum personality is extremely extroverted only to meet in person and discover that person is actually an introvert.    Take the live people interaction out of the equation and a different type of person opens up.

[Dan Herrmann]

I agree with Carl -

In Myer-Brigg's terminology, I think it's the NFP versus ITJ and the variants that are more important.

I'm an NFP, and I describe a golf course as a journey, a painting, a work of art.    I have a friend that's an ITJ and he's like an engineer - measuring angles, distances, and green contours in terms of degree of slope.  A "just the facts, Jack" type of guy.

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