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Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Bandon a "Public" golf option?
« Reply #75 on: October 24, 2010, 06:38:17 PM »
Ulrich,
The fear is that Bandon will become unobtainable to me if the prices (demand driven) continue to increase.  The runway expansion at OTH scares the heck out of me.  My fear (hopefully unfounded) will be that the resort becomes 90% corporate and force us that work for a living out.

I hope Mike K's Buffalo-bread common sense wins out.

Matt_Ward

Re: Is Bandon a "Public" golf option?
« Reply #76 on: October 24, 2010, 10:11:26 PM »
David T:

Classifications of public golf can be left open-ended -- meaning that so long as any access ia provided the place counts as a public course. That means places like PB, WS, Pinehurst #2 and others of this ilk, would be in the same grouping.

I simply suggested that a price ceiling could be set which effectively allows courses of a similar classification in being matched against one another. Think of it like wrestling -- you have a similar foe paired against another of equal weight.

There's no doubt that Bandon is indeed public and it's a very special place that all core golfers should someday play -- and return if circumstanmces permit.

You are so right -- some muni's are far better than a number of CCFAD's and even private layouts. Not many mind you -- but there are exceptions.

I just see the price ceiling as a way to introduce more quality layouts to the broader audience without having them need a healthy wad of $$ to do so. Setting a ceiling price is clearly arbitrary but it can be done and from that I believe wouldf come a listing of fun and entertaining layouts that are indeed within the range of most players.

Rob Rigg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Bandon a "Public" golf option?
« Reply #77 on: October 25, 2010, 04:15:30 AM »
Anyone in the world can save some scratch to come and play four of the best public golf courses in the world on the Oregon Coast, at one location. Prices vary depending on time of year based on supply and demand. As long as a golfer is prepared to walk the courses (unless they have a note from their doctor) they are not turned away.

Is this a rhetorical question?

You don't get four great courses, lodging, restaurants, etc. by letting people play the first course for free. I always assumed that public courses were allowed to try and make a profit?

CommonGround is a great muni, but it is not Bandon Dunes. Thankfully golfers can find value for their money at both.

Jim Nugent

Re: Is Bandon a "Public" golf option?
« Reply #78 on: October 25, 2010, 04:42:27 AM »

accessible to or shared by ALL members of the community - this is what I generally understand to be a "public" golf course.  Due to it's prohibitive cost, Bandon is certainly not shared by many, a lot or most, let alone ALL members of the community.


To be accessible to all members of the community, it must be free to everyone.  Otherwise, some people will not be able to play.  They will feel it costs too much.  This is one problem with your idea: where do you draw the line?  No matter how big or small, it's arbitrary.

(And nothing is really "free".  If there is no greens fee, that just means society as a whole must pay for it.  i.e. golfers get to play on the money of other people.) 

Public course to me means anyone can step in off the street and play, so long as they have the greens fee.  In a similar way, Yosemite is a public park IMO.  But you have to pay an entrance fee there too. 
 

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Bandon a "Public" golf option?
« Reply #79 on: October 25, 2010, 04:53:53 AM »
It's not $275 though. In a similar vein I am always questioning the public accessability of many landmarks, museums, churches in Britain. You'll always pay something like 6-12 pounds to get access. They'll charge you 3 pounds for parking even if you only stop for a quick photo of the coastline - although all that land is supposedly public.

All that coin may seem small, but it can quickly add up over the day and you don't get new citizens interested in art or culture if you charge them 8 pounds to go see a national treasure.

"Public" is a feeling as much as a concrete definition, methinks.

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Bandon a "Public" golf option?
« Reply #80 on: October 25, 2010, 09:30:53 AM »
Bandon is absolutely a public golf facility and they should be given way more credit for keeping the doors open then they are right now on this thread.

Can you show up, pay a greens fee, and play the golf course? Yes.
Do they sell tee times to players not staying at the resort? Yes.
Do they offer discounted rates for locals? Yes.
Do they have a staggered fee sheet taking to effect weather and daylight? Yes.
Do they offer daily discounted and free 2nd and 3rd rounds? Yes.
Is the player forced to take a caddy? No.
Are housing options reasonable ($100-$150/man/night)? Yes.
Are the dining options expensive? Heck no ($20 for meatloaf and a beer? That’s cheap).

In my view, Bandon has done everything they can to remain as accessible to the public, ranging from blue collar “Joe-the-plumber” types all the way to guys flying in on their private jets. Sure, the first round of the day in peak season is expensive at $250+ and if every round all year were that expensive (like it is at the Pebble Beach Company) the golf there would be out of reach for 99% of golfers. However, look at all the ways above that Bandon makes itself more flexible for the average golfer…this is clearly a place that values the way that great golf brings golfers from all walks of life together.

Bandon could clearly DOUBLE their entire fee schedule and still get enough players showing up to play, and probably run a much higher profit margin level, but they don’t.

The facility now has 4 of the top 100 golf courses in the world, they have built a great product that people want and have filled a specific niche golfer’s demand perfectly, why the hell should they give it away for less so that XYZ golfer can visit twice as often and crowd the courses? I can’t imagine that Bandon was ever intended or designed to be a golf “factory” the way some on this thread are wishing it had. It’s a special occasion golf trip, save up and go only every so often, it’ll make you appreciate it more!
H.P.S.

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Bandon a "Public" golf option?
« Reply #81 on: October 25, 2010, 01:43:59 PM »
JC;  Your response is too cute by about half.  If the only point your making is that an "expensive" public course is inaccessible to a portion of the public and therefore should be placed in a different category, the argument can be made in a single sentence. (I think I just did)  But the repeated use of Bandon as an example seems to suggest that there is something more at work.  As for your initial statement that you love Bandon, it appears that you must have read a little Shakespeare at MSU.  Reminds me of the Antony's funeral oration in Julius Caesar in reverse; "you have come to praise Bandon, not to bury it".

That is actually not the point I am making.  If the definition of "Public" is really understood to be "daily-fee," then why don't we call "public" courses, "daily-fee" courses?  If the intangible barriers that were once present at most of the "private" golf clubs in the USA have been removed leaving only the tangible barrier of money, should we call "private" courses, "monthly-fee" courses?  If the labels we once applied to something are either a) no longer relevant or b) amended such that they no longer describe or mean what we intend, should we abandon (pun intended) them?

Regarding my "reapeated use of Bandon" see my post #34 where I acknowledged that due to Bandon's discounted rates for locals that perhaps it was not the best example to use for achieving answers to my questions. 

As for Shakespeare, I can't understand what he is saying because he writes funny.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Tim Pitner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Bandon a "Public" golf option?
« Reply #82 on: October 25, 2010, 02:01:31 PM »
JC;  Your response is too cute by about half.  If the only point your making is that an "expensive" public course is inaccessible to a portion of the public and therefore should be placed in a different category, the argument can be made in a single sentence. (I think I just did)  But the repeated use of Bandon as an example seems to suggest that there is something more at work.  As for your initial statement that you love Bandon, it appears that you must have read a little Shakespeare at MSU.  Reminds me of the Antony's funeral oration in Julius Caesar in reverse; "you have come to praise Bandon, not to bury it".

That is actually not the point I am making.  If the definition of "Public" is really understood to be "daily-fee," then why don't we call "public" courses, "daily-fee" courses?  If the intangible barriers that were once present at most of the "private" golf clubs in the USA have been removed leaving only the tangible barrier of money, should we call "private" courses, "monthly-fee" courses?  If the labels we once applied to something are either a) no longer relevant or b) amended such that they no longer describe or mean what we intend, should we abandon (pun intended) them?

Consider it done.  What was accomplished?

At least statements like "Bandon is rather expensive" or "the Hawkeyes must beat the Spartans to save their season" concern real things. 

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Bandon a "Public" golf option?
« Reply #83 on: October 25, 2010, 02:35:43 PM »
You guys have taken the splitting of hairs to an entirely new level.

I should have to pay for such entertainment... but wait that would change the... ah, forget about it.

Carl Rogers

Re: Is Bandon a "Public" golf option?
« Reply #84 on: October 25, 2010, 03:09:22 PM »
I have a very hard time understanding why many cannot understand that the game of golf has a big tent with room for lots of options.

Paul Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Bandon a "Public" golf option?
« Reply #85 on: October 25, 2010, 03:35:40 PM »
Do the people who live 1 - 2 hours away from Bandon consider it a Private Club?

Would I consider The St Andrews - Old Course Private since it is so remote to my location and expensive... since I do not live in Fife or attend the University?
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Bandon a "Public" golf option?
« Reply #86 on: October 25, 2010, 03:41:18 PM »
Is Bandon a "public" golf option?

Well, it sure isn't a private golf option!  And its owner has repeatedly stated that his mission was to build a public mecca for golf.  He has succeeded beyond any argument.

He could have tried a different business model.  He could have modeled it after Sand Hills and kept it private.  It would have been wildly successful and very exclusive.

He chose to make it a public resort.  It has been wildly successful and non-exclusive.

Nuff said.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Ari Techner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Bandon a "Public" golf option?
« Reply #87 on: October 25, 2010, 06:29:41 PM »
While expensive at times, Bandon is the very definition of "Public" golf.  Anybody can play it at any time of the year if they are willing to pay the greens fee.  In the winter it is not even that expensive.  When I lived 2 hours away I played it more times than I can count, mostly in the shoulder and offseason when the weather was nice.  Not once was I asked to pay an initiation fee or monthly dues.....

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Bandon a "Public" golf option?
« Reply #88 on: October 25, 2010, 08:01:11 PM »
The important thing is that I absolutely love the place and, if I save enough, I can play it anytime I want.  What's better than that!!!

John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Bandon a "Public" golf option?
« Reply #89 on: October 25, 2010, 10:17:49 PM »
One thing we need to make sure to keep in mind is that by no stretch of the imagination is Bandon "affordable" for many public golfers.

Sure there are mid winter deals, but the total costs are far above what many would consider dropping for their golf experience.
Integrity in the moment of choice

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Bandon a "Public" golf option?
« Reply #90 on: October 25, 2010, 10:21:02 PM »
John,
Fair enough, but Bandon is a public course nonetheless.    So is Glen Abbey in Toronto, and the cost isn't all that different.

John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Bandon a "Public" golf option?
« Reply #91 on: October 25, 2010, 10:30:49 PM »
Absolutley Bandon is public,

Affordable it ain't.
Integrity in the moment of choice

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