[Kevin Pallier]

In that rota

TOC - 8
C - 1
K - 1

[Marty Bonnar]

Nicely considered post, Mac.
For years I said that Carnoustie was the most fun I've ever had getting my ass kicked by a golf course. It's FREEKIN hard, it's FREEKIN long, it's FREEKIN WINDY!!!

BUT

IT'S ALSO FREEKIN GREAT FUN!!!!!!!!!!

Honestly, try it, you'll love it. A marvellous routing. GREAT greensites, proper combination of strategic and penal golf holes and possibly the best finish of a golf course anywhere. Two or three ho-hum holes, but the rest MAGNIFICENT. Don't be put off by it's reputation. It's a golf course, not freekin Splash Mountain.

FBD.

[Colin Macqueen]

Mac Plumart!!  Say it ain't so!

To confess on a public forum that you would not deign to play Carnoustie leaves me flabbergasted, nay dismayed and despondent. I have caddied there countless times, played it a few times and hold it dear to my heart. It also happens to be one of the most historic courses on the planet. A monster but a beautiful one.

Your rationale for such a breathtaking decision seems a wee bit long in materialising.  Are you struggling with the rationale or, upon reflection, are you changing your mind.

Cheers Colin

[Mac Plumart]

Your rationale for such a breathtaking decision seems a wee bit long in materialising.  Are you struggling with the rationale or, upon reflection, are you changing your mind.


Colin...

I'm trying to build a solid case in hopes of pre-empting being called a PU$$Y! But in the meantime, perhaps I need to change my mind and put it on the list of courses to play.   

[Gary Slatter]

Marty, watched it here in Calgary this morning, good telecast, players looked a wee bit tired after last week's performances!

For 10 rounds, I'd go TOC 4, Carnoustie 5 and KB 1.   As much as I like Carnoustie it isn't that easy to have a great off course experience, we love playig but the before and after can sometimes be annoying with the clubhouse being operated by some disinterested party.  It actually makes the Links Trust in St Andrews look friendly.

KB looks like their greens are better than normal, looked good on TV.  I've found the best week to play KB is the one after Dunhill.
all the best

[Gary Slatter]

How does Carnoustie not make my “to play” list for courses in Scotland?

In short, I think it might be too difficult of a golf course for me to enjoy.  For context, currently I am a 9.4 handicap and I have never broken 80.  (Although I did score my first hole in one today!!!    ).

How did I come up with the idea that it might be too difficult for me to enjoy?

Well, here is a tid-bit from my site about Carnoustie…

“Carnoustie is considered to be the most difficult course in the Open rotation and has earned the nickname "Car-nasty" for this reason.  A young Sergio Garcia ran into his mother’s arms in tears after missing the cut at Carnoustie and posting two rounds in the 80's.  In fact, there is a psychological term called "The Carnoustie Effect" which refers to the degree of mental anguish which is experienced when false and unrealistic expectations collide with reality.  I would say the 19 year old Sergio Garcia had a fairly bad case of the Carnousite Effect.  Now that I think of it, maybe Jean Van de Velde also felt this effect pretty intensely.”

And here are some snippets from Carnoustie’s website…

From Padraig Harrington, “There isn’t a player who didn’t find this course a test.”

From Ernie Els; “Its got length.  Its got great bunkering.  You’ve really got to have your wits about you to play this golf course.”

From Tiger Woods, “This golf course is hard.”

So, I think I need to get my game in better shape in order to fully appreciate Carnoustie.  And this is my goal for improving my game…to be able to play well enough to appreciate quality golf course architecture.

Maybe my next trip to Scotland I’ll give it a shot, but not this upcoming trip.  But, of course I’ve never played it or really even seen it…so maybe I am way off base.  That wouldn’t be the first time!!   
[/quote



Mac, just don't plsay in the Open, Canoustie is wonderful the other weeks!

[Bill_McBride]

Uncle Bill!
You've been in this wee corner how many times? And you've NEVER got to KB or C? THAT is the single most surprising thing I've ever heard here - after TEP's TOC confession!!!!
cheers,
Neffers.

One of my faults is over planning.  I was in love with the Old Course long before I ever got to St Andrews, and ever since I got there and found it ever better than expected  , every trip back has focused on playing there again.

Now, like Kelly, I'm just hoping to return.  If and when I do, Carnoustie and Kingsbarns will have to be on the list!  Particularly if you will come along as my guide and mentor.

[Carl Johnson]

So we're playing on three of Scotland's Top 10 (5?) golf courses this weekend and not a single discussion? No coverage in the US?
Here's the old quick Q for those who've been lucky enough to play all three. How many plays out of Ten?

Me?
TOC - 3
KB - 3
C - 4

That took a while, but I think I'm happy.

You?

cheers,
F.

PS Posting here is such a pain, I'm less and less inclined to do it. Does anyone else get the 'bottom of the box bounce' effect? I couldn't see ANY of this last para to tpr! As you can tell! AND I CAN@TPREVIEW.

I've played each once.  If I had ten more shots to split between the courses:

TOC 5
KB 5
C 0

[Bob_Huntley]

I have played TOC regularly for well over twenty-five years and Carnoustie about a dozen times. The first time I played Kingsbarns I loved it and still do this day. What was an old potato patch was transformed into an enticingly beautiful golf course. It is a wonderful  test of golf.

My take on playing the three when fit, would be TOC 5, KB 3 CN 2

Right now it would be TOC 10.

Bob

[Mark Pearce]

Mac,

The first time I played Carnoustie was in appalling weather.  By about the fifth hole I was absolutely soaked to the skin and the heavy rain continued unabated for the entire round.  I played with my wife and shot 104.  We both enjoyed it so much that after finishing we went straight back into the starter to see if there was another time free in the afternoon.

Is it tough?  Yes.  But it's not unplayable.  Indeed, in clement weather it's very playable.  But it is fun.  And great.

I should caveat this with the fact that I don't mind getting beaten up by a golf course so long as I don't spend forever losing balls or looking for them in deep rough (and, notwithstanding 1999 that's not a problem you'll have at Carnoustie) and so long as the challenge is not unreasonable, which it isn't at Carnoustie.  I loved Wolf Run and Yale, both of which are tough. Would you turn down a game at Oakmont?  From what I hear, it's going to beat you up far rougher than Carnoustie ever would.

Play Carnoustie before Kingsbarns.

[Ben Stephens]

Given the choice out of ten I would play

Carnoustie - 7
Kingsbarns - 1
The Old Course - 2 (need to play it twice to appreciate it more)

Carnoustie - wow what a great golf course it is - it is a beast of a course and definitely punishes the wayward shot and demands great golf to be played on it. Its not beautiful from the outside but inside it is superman! There are a few weak holes such as 4 and 11 but outshone by world class holes especially the last 4 holes!

Kingsbarns - is not really a natural links course most of it is manufactured and there are some stunning holes which I would like to take on.

The Old Course - the old grand lady and I have walked the course many times but never played it. Watched Geoff Ogilvy and Justin Rose closely in the St Andrews Links Trophy over 10 yrs ago and many Dunhill cups. I felt it was a bit Mickey Mouse due to the fact it punishes a great shot and a terrible shot could get away with murder! This course is a one off and unique - Id rather play Brancaster

Cheers
Ben

[Mark Pearce]

The Old Course - the old grand lady and I have walked the course many times but never played it. Watched Geoff Ogilvy and Justin Rose closely in the St Andrews Links Trophy over 10 yrs ago and many Dunhill cups. I felt it was a bit Mickey Mouse due to the fact it punishes a great shot and a terrible shot could get away with murder! This course is a one off and unique - Id rather play Brancaster

Ben,

A brave view to express, seeing that you haven't actually played it.  Can you give examples of how TOC "punishes a great shot" and how "a terrible shot could get away with murder"?

[Melvyn Morrow]

Ben

What can I say, sorry springs to mind, how you cannot let yourself experience TOC.  It was so many years ago, a good half century since my first experience of TOC, of walking in the footsteps of Old Tom accompanied by my father.

TOC may not be the best course in the world but she is the Greatest Golf Course in the World, from the scary 1st Tee through to the 'Walk of Champions' over the Swilken Bridge to the 18th Green.

She is Golf; she is the heart and soul of all golf courses, yet never equalled or bettered as a course. TOC is as much of St Andrews as St Andrews is of TOC. You play TOC her way, be you a humble golfer or one of the top ranking players in the world. She will hurt you as quickly as reward your attention upon her, but you do need to respect her gentle curves to get the best out of yourself.

TOC can be the elixir of youth, but you have to step out onto her to feel your blood surge around your body certainly as you walk to the 1st Tee for your shot. Oh you luck Virgin you still have that pleasure to come, so savour those very few precious seconds as they my friend will remain in your thoughts throughout your life,

Melvyn

[Ben Stephens]

Ben

What can I say, sorry springs to mind, how you cannot let yourself experience TOC.  It was so many years ago, a good half century since my first experience of TOC, of walking in the footsteps of Old Tom accompanied by my father.

TOC may not be the best course in the world but she is the Greatest Golf Course in the World, from the scary 1st Tee through to the 'Walk of Champions' over the Swilken Bridge to the 18th Green.

She is Golf; she is the heart and soul of all golf courses, yet never equalled or bettered as a course. TOC is as much of St Andrews as St Andrews is of TOC. You play TOC her way, be you a humble golfer or one of the top ranking players in the world. She will hurt you as quickly as reward your attention upon her, but you do need to respect her gentle curves to get the best out of yourself.

TOC can be the elixir of youth, but you have to step out onto her to feel your blood surge around your body certainly as you walk to the 1st Tee for your shot. Oh you luck Virgin you still have that pleasure to come, so savour those very few precious seconds as they my friend will remain in your thoughts throughout your life,

Melvyn

Melvyn

I agree with you from a golf history point of view - 'she is the one' course to must play. There is no similar course in the world to the grand old lady only Brancaster is the nearest that I can think of. The place is magical and breathes golf, golf, golf. If you take the whole place/town away - as a golf course itself there are a lot of question marks? it is like marmite you either love it or dislike it. There are some great holes and some mundane ones.

Cheers
Ben

[Ben Stephens]

The Old Course - the old grand lady and I have walked the course many times but never played it. Watched Geoff Ogilvy and Justin Rose closely in the St Andrews Links Trophy over 10 yrs ago and many Dunhill cups. I felt it was a bit Mickey Mouse due to the fact it punishes a great shot and a terrible shot could get away with murder! This course is a one off and unique - Id rather play Brancaster

Ben,

A brave view to express, seeing that you haven't actually played it.  Can you give examples of how TOC "punishes a great shot" and how "a terrible shot could get away with murder"?

Tiger's wayward driving at the Open! he was seen on the 'other fairway' a couple of times with enormous duck hooks. There are a number of unlucky bounces I have seen from players in the Dunhill Cup and St Andrews Links Trophy events that would have been awesome shots elsewhere. I remember John Daly hitting a great low shot into 17 and it just hit a downslope on the fairway in front of the green and it shot over the green onto the road. If he was a yard either side he would have been very close to the flag but that's the old course with the luck of the bounce.

I have walked the fairways and greens when I watched Rose and Ogilvy battle out for the Links Trophy. Thats the closest I have been around the Old Course. Ogilvy was unlucky not to make the playoff due to a few unlucky bounces that would have made the difference. I thought he played better than Rose (whoe won the tournament that time)

Its just probably me - I believe if it was a bad shot it should be fairly punished and a good shot not punished unfairly.

[Jim Franklin]

TOC - 5
Carnasty - 4
Kingsbarns - 1

[Phil_the_Author]

Mac,

A suggestion, play Carnoustie, but do so from the front tees... not the ones that Tiger and Ernie and Padraig play from...

Martin my friend, if I was over there drinks would be on me for you & the friends! for me it is:

Carnoustie: 4
KB: 3
TOC: 2

With the explanation that I would also spend almost all of my non-playing time walking TOC and watching everyone else play or strolling the streets of the city... Without question the penultimate place to do that for a golfer...

[Melvyn Morrow]

Philip

As a young lad pre 10 years old I remember standing by the rail in front of The Old Tom Shop watching the golfers making their way up the 18th. I stood there for hours, sometimes waiting for my father - I still stand more or less on the same spot (if a van is not parked in the way) watching todays golfers, time still passes so bloody quickly yet there is a calmness about the whole experience - is that not how golf should be enjoyed.

Melvyn

[Bill_McBride]

The Old Course - the old grand lady and I have walked the course many times but never played it. Watched Geoff Ogilvy and Justin Rose closely in the St Andrews Links Trophy over 10 yrs ago and many Dunhill cups. I felt it was a bit Mickey Mouse due to the fact it punishes a great shot and a terrible shot could get away with murder! This course is a one off and unique - Id rather play Brancaster

Ben,

A brave view to express, seeing that you haven't actually played it.  Can you give examples of how TOC "punishes a great shot" and how "a terrible shot could get away with murder"?

There can be some capricious bounces on that fine rumpled turf, but that's a major part of the charm!

[Marty Bonnar]

Philip

As a young lad pre 10 years old I remember standing by the rail in front of The Old Tom Shop watching the golfers making their way up the 18th. I stood there for hours, sometimes waiting for my father - I still stand more or less on the same spot (if a van is not parked in the way) watching todays golfers, time still passes so bloody quickly yet there is a calmness about the whole experience - is that not how golf should be enjoyed.

Melvyn

Melvyn,
I was at that very spot not two hours ago. I reached out and touched the old brass plaque on the door of the shop, inscribed: "Tom Morris, Ltd" smiled and thought of you. The misty conditions of today only served to enhance the mystery of the Auld Lady.
cheers,
FBD.

[Simon Holt]

Melvyn,
Whle KB doesnt do for me what it does for others I still really like it.  Interested for you to expand on the way its run?  Always seemed pretty good to me.

Thanks,
S

[Martin Toal]

TOC - 0 (TNC -1) I did hook one on the second at the New and it crossed over onto TOC, and I crossed the fence and played it back, so 1 shot on TOC.
K - 1
C - 0

[Melvyn Morrow]

Simon

I do not have a problem with KB it’s just well down on my list, however much higher than the Castle. Ops did I say the Castle - Sorted the Castle is now off my list awaiting its relocation – just in case the Links Trust did not hear I say again Relocation, Relocation and Relocation – Kirstie and Phil are you listening too, can you find a new home for this course say in France or further South.

Taking into account all the battering and mods on the other two (TOC Carnoustie) over the last few hundred years, its surprising that they are still so good. KB is still young and needs time to settle. There are also others that I prefer and hopefully in the not to distance future I shall once again be able to get back to swearing spitting and throwing my clubs – as if I would.

I prefer Prestwick and NB to KB any day, but then that’s my type of golf. If all goes well I may have to see about a membership of Prestwick or actually I would be happy with Prestwick St Nicholas. As for St Andrews a seat at The New Club but play at Crail, Elie and Leven/Lundin. To be honest I think I prefer Moray GC to KB. But there is nothing wrong with KB it just does not hit all the buttons for me.

My point I suppose is the choice we have, I could do a round Scotland trek year in year out without evening thinking of leaving the coast, then we have the island courses of Askernish, Machrie not to mention the courses on the Isle of Arran. No I am happy to miss the new courses for the moment as the old are still so much fun.

Melvyn

[mike_beene]

TOC 5 KB 4 C1 Almost made it 5-5.Kingsbarns is up there with TOC and Muirfield in my book

[Mac Plumart]

They are televising this tournament on TGC right now.  I think this is my favorite tournament to watch.  Not too much commercialism, appropriate commentary, and excellent looks at the courses.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()