Will The European PGA Rethink Their

[Sean_A]

strategy of going with the high rollers to host the Ryder Cup?  

Will this entire fiasco bite T Matthews in the ass and cause the punters to stay away from Celtic Manor?  

Will the consequence of this sorry state of affairs mean a member's owned links club will be considered to host the Ryder Cup in the future?  

Hand on heart, I can say I could have purchased RC tickets at a very reasonable price and declined because I thought there was a fair chance there would be rain and I knew there was a fair chance Celtic Manor couldn't handle it.  This is not new, the Celtic Manor has always had a rep as being a bog.  Will this year's travesty encourage a refund policy for ticket holders when the chosen course has less of a chance to be playable than other venues?  

Will the concept that a piece of land not suitable for golf can be made suitable with a massive drainage system now be in question?

Ciao

[Paul Nash]

One can hopefully that more common snse pravails going forward, but I suspect money will always win. I have been to CC 3 times, 2 on club matches - the last visit, in late August a couple of years ago was almost as wet as this - it was horrible - none of the matches finished, with groups walking in. Summer golf in Wales!!

[Thomas McQuillan]

they will now go to the high rollers in a warm climate

[Jud_T]

Sean,

We're the punters flocking to CM to begin with?

[Sean_A]

Sean,

We're the punters flocking to CM to begin with?

Jud

I don't know how well CM has done in recent years.  I have never heard much positive talk about the old configuration of courses, but some folks definitely went out of their to have a game.  Mind you, I live about 1 hour and 15 minutes from Newport.  I have certainly avoided it and this weekend's events won't change my opinion.  I haven't looked into prices, but I bet the green fee is quite high for the 2010 course even in winter so no, I doubt you will be seeing it included in the Winter Tour of England & Wales.

Ciao

[Niall C]

Celtic Manor was always going to be a fair weather course just because of where it is, the type of terrain and the soil. A bit like a Welsh Loch Lomond. Going there at this time of year was always going to be risky and to an extent they are now paying the price. Personally I don't think the course looks a bad one, not my favourite type of course certainly, but doesn't make it bad. The fact that it doesn't play well for a chunk of the year doesn't make it an invalid project either. Both Kingsbarns and Castle Stuart shut down over the winter because they don't want to have it played when not in tip top condition and therefore manage to keep the green fees up. Maybe CM could go down that line.

Niall

[Mark Chaplin]

Other than the RC it's difficult to see where the PGA's income derives from, they will surely always follow the cash.

[Matt_Ward]

Sean:

Nice try but when you get addicted to oodles of $$$ you don't switch so easily.

The Ryder Cup is set for the years ahead -- save for the 2018 site in Europe.

Best bet would be to schedule the event in the middle of a season -- sort of like baseball's all-star game.

That would mean only a schedule change once every four years for each side.

Could work -- but the idea that mega bucks people will shrink from the stage is not going to happen. The Ryder Cup provides them with the perfect vehicle for legitimacy.

[Mike_Clayton]

Does anyone think Gleneagles will be any better in October 2014? It could be freezing up there at this time of year.
From a selfish view I have been very grateful for the 500,000 pounds we have played for on the Senior Tour at the Wales Open.
That event went on for ten years - but its over now from all accounts which is a pity because Porthcawl was great fun.
Presumably it will be replaced by a big event in France or Spain - Chantilly maybe? That would be a nice with Morfontaine down the road.

[David_Tepper]

Sean Arble -

Are you aware that, by posing multiple questions in your opening statement, you risk appearing "Mucci-esque?"

To answer most of them, I can hardly see the Euro Tour making changes relative to selecting locations and dates for the Ryder Cup. The money is very important to the Euro Tour and I think it makes for a very nice "thank you" gift to reward to sites that have hosted Euro Tour tournaments regularly over the years.

In addition, I think holding the RC on a course where the Euro Tour plays a tournament yearly generates a lot of advantageousl local knowledge for the home team. I am sure the Euro Tour officials feel winning the RC is a high priority for enhancing the image & prestige of their tour.

Finally, late September/early October hardly marks the end of the golf season in the British Isles. Didn't they play the World Match Play at Wentworth for years in mid-October. Don't they play the Dunhill Cup in Fife around then as well?

DT        

[Scott Warren]

Mike C,

I thought under the terms of hosting the RC in Europe, the host country was obliged to host a men's, women's and senior tour event for a certain number of years after the event?

[Tony_Muldoon]

Some nice holes on the course, but Sean you wouldn't stand the walk, pretty severe.

Why does not one mention Finchem in all this? I'm pretty sure Terry Matthews bid for the RC based on it being played in September.   Finchem dreams up the FedEx (hardly a roaring success) and Ryder Cup becomes October - not good news for northern Europe.


Also when we had the presentation at RP did anyone ask how the Ryder Cup is 'bought'?  I don't think anyone did but then I had been up 20 hrs at that point.  It’s now such a massive event I doubt any traditional course would want to handle it.  I think even RSG would struggle to cope with an event of the size it’s become, and few things in life manage themselves smaller.

[Mike Benham]

strategy of going with the high rollers to host the Ryder Cup?  

Will this entire fiasco bite T Matthews in the ass and cause the punters to stay away from Celtic Manor?  

Will the consequence of this sorry state of affairs mean a member's owned links club will be considered to host the Ryder Cup in the future?  

You could ask the same question about the Premier League. 

How well has England done in developing its younger players and how have they performed in National events now that large corporations own and manage the teams (and throw money at foreign players).

Somehow expect this analogy to come back to blaming the Yanks again (Re: Liverpool FC) ...

[Mark Pearce]

strategy of going with the high rollers to host the Ryder Cup?  

Will this entire fiasco bite T Matthews in the ass and cause the punters to stay away from Celtic Manor?  

Will the consequence of this sorry state of affairs mean a member's owned links club will be considered to host the Ryder Cup in the future?  

You could ask the same question about the Premier League. 

How well has England done in developing its younger players and how have they performed in National events now that large corporations own and manage the teams (and throw money at foreign players).

Somehow expect this analogy to come back to blaming the Yanks again (Re: Liverpool FC) ...

Or you could look at the number of Brits in the world top 20/30 and think that the Ryder Cup money must be feeding its way down into an efficient youth development system.  That would probably be wrong as well, though it's worth noting that all these years after we added Europe to the Ryder Cup GB&I could now put out a team which would be competitive on its own.

[Mike_Clayton]

Scott.

I think that is right - but the key is the size and prizemoney. Wales was 500k - double the current Scottish event.

[David_Tepper]

"though it's worth noting that all these years after we added Europe to the Ryder Cup GB&I could now put out a team which would be competitive on its own."

Mark Pearce -

At the risk of hijacking this thread, where are the Scots? Aside from from Colin Montgomery, who was the last Scot to play in the Ryder Cup? Who will the next one be?

DT

[Marty Bonnar]

"though it's worth noting that all these years after we added Europe to the Ryder Cup GB&I could now put out a team which would be competitive on its own."

Mark Pearce -

At the risk of hijacking this thread, where are the Scots? Aside from from Colin Montgomery, who was the last Scot to play in the Ryder Cup? Who will the next one be?

DT

David,
shurely you've no' forgotten Oor Sam!?
Next will probably be our splendid near-winner on the PGA Tour (THIS YEAR!), Martin Laird!
cheers,
F.

[Marty Bonnar]

Oh and PS:

Barnes-y kickin' Nicklaus's ass TWICE in one day . But that was when the Ryder Cup meant something.

cheers,
F.

[David_Tepper]

"Barnes-y kickin' Nicklaus's ass TWICE in one day Grin. But that was when the Ryder Cup meant something."

Marty -

Wasn't that before you were born?

DT

[Mike Benham]

That would probably be wrong as well, though it's worth noting that all these years after we added Europe to the Ryder Cup GB&I could now put out a team which would be competitive on its own.

GB&I

3     Lee Westwood,  Eng    
7     Paul Casey,  Eng    
8     Luke Donald,  Eng    
9     Rory McIlroy,  Nir    
13     Graeme McDowell,  Nir
16     Ian Poulter,  Eng    
22     Padraig Harrington  Ire    
23     Justin Rose,  Eng    
27     Ross Fisher,  Eng    
68    Oliver Wilson,  Eng   
71    Simon Dyson,  Eng   
77      David Horsey,  Eng   


USA

1    Tiger Woods,  USA       
2     Phil Mickelson,  USA       
4     Steve Stricker,  USA       
5     Jim Furyk,  USA               
11     Matt Kuchar,  USA       
12     Dustin Johnson,  USA       
14     Hunter Mahan,  USA       
18     Anthony Kim,  USA    *      
19     Zach Johnson,  USA       
24     Bubba Watson,  USA       
25     Sean O'Hair,  USA       *
30     Nick Watney,  USA      *
33     Rickie Fowler,  USA       
35     Stewart Cink,  USA       

[Sean_A]

Sean Arble -

Are you aware that, by posing multiple questions in your opening statement, you risk appearing "Mucci-esque?"

To answer most of them, I can hardly see the Euro Tour making changes relative to selecting locations and dates for the Ryder Cup. The money is very important to the Euro Tour and I think it makes for a very nice "thank you" gift to reward to sites that have hosted Euro Tour tournaments regularly over the years.

In addition, I think holding the RC on a course where the Euro Tour plays a tournament yearly generates a lot of advantageousl local knowledge for the home team. I am sure the Euro Tour officials feel winning the RC is a high priority for enhancing the image & prestige of their tour.

Finally, late September/early October hardly marks the end of the golf season in the British Isles. Didn't they play the World Match Play at Wentworth for years in mid-October. Don't they play the Dunhill Cup in Fife around then as well?

DT        

David

By re-think I didn't have the date in mind.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with the date this week.  The problem is the venue and its not as if this should be a great surprise.  CM has a terrible rep for its drainage - always has.  If anything, despite the massive drainage effort this week proves to me that modern technology cannot solve all the problems of poor land. 

Ciao 

[Mark Pearce]

That would probably be wrong as well, though it's worth noting that all these years after we added Europe to the Ryder Cup GB&I could now put out a team which would be competitive on its own.

GB&I

3     Lee Westwood,  Eng    
7     Paul Casey,  Eng    
8     Luke Donald,  Eng    
9     Rory McIlroy,  Nir    
13     Graeme McDowell,  Nir
16     Ian Poulter,  Eng    
22     Padraig Harrington  Ire    
23     Justin Rose,  Eng    
27     Ross Fisher,  Eng    
68    Oliver Wilson,  Eng   
71    Simon Dyson,  Eng   
77      David Horsey,  Eng   


USA

1    Tiger Woods,  USA       
2     Phil Mickelson,  USA       
4     Steve Stricker,  USA       
5     Jim Furyk,  USA               
11     Matt Kuchar,  USA       
12     Dustin Johnson,  USA       
14     Hunter Mahan,  USA       
18     Anthony Kim,  USA    *      
19     Zach Johnson,  USA       
24     Bubba Watson,  USA       
25     Sean O'Hair,  USA       *
30     Nick Watney,  USA      *
33     Rickie Fowler,  USA       
35     Stewart Cink,  USA       

Rhys Davies 56
Martin Laird 61

[Niall C]

Sean,

Where in Europe would early October be the optimum time to play golf from a good stable weather, and condition of courses, point of view ?

Genuine question as I'm not sure I know an answer.

Niall

[Brian_Ewen]

Who will the next one be?

I will have a tenner on James Byrne with you .

[David_Tepper]

"I will have a tenner on James Byrne with you."

Brian -

Well, has quite a website for a guy just 21 years old!

http://jamesbyrnegolf.org/

DT