[Jim Nugent]

The worst Ryder Cup I’ve seen was that at The Country Club in 1999.

From the Best Ryder Cup thread, several (American) posters consider 1999 the best.      But charging across that green before Ollie putted is inexcusable IMO. 

[Mark Chaplin]

It wasn't the spectators running across the 17th green at Brookline.

JNC - Geoff Ogilvy made par and won would he have been so gracious if he'd doubled and lost?

The divot v animal scrape is a poor argument, even the worst chunker cannot take a divot more that the depth of the ball, you can get perfectly formed 6" and deeper rabbit scrapes. To have to drop out under penalty in the middle of a fairway in a rabbit hole simply would not be fair.

I splashed around 2010 yesterday and whilst it's not my cup of tea I actually thought it looked pretty good, far too tough for the average player who will now play lots to play there. The problem is simply the Ryder Cup is being played far too late and that is because of the big money Fed Ex thing.

[Mac Plumart]

Let's hope it turns around today and we some great golf!!!!!!!

Z. Johnson's putt, Westwood's putt, and Tiger's near make on the chip seem to have it off to a good start.

Here's hoping!

[JNC Lyon]

It wasn't the spectators running across the 17th green at Brookline.

JNC - Geoff Ogilvy made par and won would he have been so gracious if he'd doubled and lost?

Mark,

He probably would have complained if he had made double.  However, the fact is that he did not make double, and it was all because of his own resiliency.  Others guys came to the same hole and made smooth 5s and 6s because of the pressure.  Oglivy powered through mentally.  For once, the game returned to its past as being a purely mental test.

People seem to think it is life or death when you have to play a ball from an imperfect lie.  That's simply not true.  If golf should be fun and relaxed, why should it kill you to play the ball as it lies?

[Mark Chaplin]

Are Overton & Watson gentlemen golfers or baseball loving rednecks? Nice shot worthy of a high five but really........

[JNC Lyon]

Are Overton & Watson gentlemen golfers or baseball loving rednecks? Nice shot worthy of a high five but really........

Watch it there on the baseball comments: Baseball is America's National Pastime, so US players are bound to be baseball fans. I think the redneck sport you're looking for is NASCAR.

[Mac Plumart]

Baseball loving rednecks!!  

Given I love baseball and live in Georgia, maybe I should be offended...but I ain't.  Nice one!  

[JR Potts]

GMAFB.

For some this site should be named curmudgeon club atlas.

[Tim Martin]

Are Overton & Watson gentlemen golfers or baseball loving rednecks? Nice shot worthy of a high five but really........

While routing for the N. Y. Yankees all these years I have been called plenty of names but never a redneck

[Brian Phillips]

Are Overton & Watson gentlemen golfers or baseball loving rednecks? Nice shot worthy of a high five but really........

They would have looked good on The Muppet Show.

[Garland Bayley]

Are Overton & Watson gentlemen golfers or baseball loving rednecks? Nice shot worthy of a high five but really........

Basketball loving rednecks! The thing Overton yelled was an Indiana Pacers thing.

[Scott Warren]

Can someone run me through what they did?

[JR Potts]

It was galling behavior.  Overton holed out from 150 to win the hole and Overton and Watson yelled for about 30 seconds.  It was horrific.

Ah, the agony.

[Garland Bayley]

They celebrated Overton's holing out for eagle with a bunch of yelling and cheering as they walked to the green. Big deal.

[Scott Warren]

Wow. Sounds disgusting...

On another note, I hope Rory gets Tiger in the singles!

[Mike Benham]

Just for the record, please remind us how many Ryder Cups you have actually seen.

Good point David.  Personally, I think the 1955 match at Thunderbird Country Club in Rancho Mirage was a huge disappointment.  Boring lay-out, palm trees, lack of celebrities in attendance.

[Mark Chaplin]

5 1/2 to 1/2 session becoming one of the great Ryder Cups!!  

[Dean Stokes]

For all the moaning and groaning on this website.....the bad weather...the crappy course.....the rainsuits.......this is still a great competition and will be a magnificent day tomorrow.

You could play this event at the local muni and it would still be awesome.

[Adam Lawrence]

Mark and Dean - totally agree. Which proves that in the Ryder Cup, the competition is the thing. The course, frankly, is ancillary.

[Dean Stokes]

Wow. Sounds disgusting...

On another note, I hope Rory gets Tiger in the singles!

so do I....another point for Europe

[William_G]

Adrian_Stiff writes:
They have to Lift clean place though.

Huh? They had a choice of playing golf or lift, clean and cheat. They chose lift, clean and cheat. I'd rather they played golf.

If a golf ball gathers a lump of mud that aint no fun.

It ain't suppose to be fun. It is supposed to be entertaining. Who isn't entertained by seeing one of the greatest golfers in the world trying to hit a shot with a mud-covered ball?

Golf is played in nature, with all its inconsistencies. The Tours are turning the game into watching players at the driving range. Bring back golf.

Cheers,
Dan King

You can talk about strategy all you want, but what really matters is resilency. On the last nine holes of the Masters or Open, there's going to come at least one point when you want to throw yourself in the nearest trash can and disappear. You know you can't hide. It's like your walking down the fairway naked. The gallery knows what you've done, every other player knows and worst of all, you know. That's when you find out if you're a real competitor.
 --Hale Irwin

+1
 

[William_G]

Matt,

I know Belfry did not have the extreme weather we've had this week.  However, the last couple Ryder Cups there have been dreary at best.  I'm also guessing the Belfry did not have anything resembling firm and fast conditions.

Matt and Adrian,

Lift, clean, and place, quite simply, has no place in the game.  The pros get uneasy when any sort of "luck" is brought into play, even though luck is an integral part of golf.  Furthermore, when a ball lands in a wet fairway, there is no guarantee that the ball will pick up mud.  Even if it does, there are ways to judge how the ball will come off.  Players should not get a perfect lie every time they are in the fairway.  If that's what people think, then we should be playing the game off astroturf.

I've gone out in January thaws in Rochester and played the ball down, no questions asked.  Playing the ball down, even under the muddiest of conditions, ensures that things like "thinking" and "rub of the green" remain essential parts of the game.  Lift, clean and place takes these aspects of the game and throws them in the garbage.

JNC- I admire your purist outlook but I don`t think it is very practical. One of my favorite things is the sign on the pro shop door at Taconic Golf Club which says "No Preferred Lies, We Play Golf Here!". I have played plenty of golf in the winter in all kinds of conditions in New England. We play winter rules. I play the ball down the rest of the year. To say that playing the ball down in Rochester in the winter is some sort of badge of honor is beyond me.

Tim,

I did not say that it was a badge of honor.  To paraphrase what Bobby Jones said, you should not praise a man for not robbing a bank.  I am merely pointing out that, with the ground as soggy as possible, we still manage to play the ball as it lies.  Surely PGA Tour players could muster up enough decency to do the same.

I am genuinely concerned here about the game and people's view of it.  I always thought this was a website that supported the purists of the game.  Now, use the word "purist" as an insult, as if those who wish to uphold the game's traditions are backwards idiots.  Golf is the greatest game of them all because of its traditions and its etiquette that has survived hundreds of years.  Golfers have developed and agreed upon a certain set of rules that preserved the game's adventure, interaction with nature, and honesty.  Somehow, these traditions have lasted for centuries.  Suddenly, in the last 50 years or so, we have all decided that the game needs to change with the times.  Suddenly, every golfer is entitled to a fair shake and equal opportunity.  Every good shot should produce the same good result, and every bad shot should produce the same bad result.  Before, luck was accepted as part of the game and part of the fun.  A golfer and, more importantly, a man was measured by how well he handled his luck, good or bad.  This is the true test of a man, no?  How he handles the bump in the road that should not have been there.  Now people dismiss luck as silly and a threat to our fair-minded golf utopia.

This change in golf seems to be related to the change in the rest of our society.  Everybody thinks they are entitled to do whatever they want and get whatever they want.  If someone cannot get what they think they deserve, it is considered unfair and a violation of their rights.  In short, people have been consumed with an entitlement mentality.  This entitlement mentality has slowly seeped over to golf.  Stewart Cink is now entitled to make everyone else in his group watch and wait while he eats his sandwich.  Every golfer who hits the fairway is entitled to a perfect lie.  When the weather is not 75 degrees and sunny, every golfer has the right to make adjustments until he can play under the same conditions that he is used to.  Golf, for the first time ever, has begun to change with the rest of the world.  The change has compromised the original spirit of the game.  Golfers are no longer tested to accept what they are given.  Golfers are now entitled to get what they think they deserve.

The world of golf needs to stand up to this change.  Golf should NOT change with the rest of the world.  Golf is an escape from the rest of the world, a return to traditionalism and integrity in a time of unrelenting change.

+1 Well said, ridiculous!

[Richard Choi]

I have yet to meet anyone who "plays as it lies". Not at tournaments, not at GCA get togethers, not anywhere.

It is all a nice and flowery talk, but people take drops all the time, whether it is because of a "GUR" or cart path or standing water or whatever.

You say you play in wet conditions, but I really don't think you do. Come on up here in NW during winter and try to play as it lies. My drives regularly get buried in the middle of the fairway. I have LOST several balls that landed in the middle of a fairway!

Sure, you may say "you get relief with plugged lies", but then you are just saying it is okay to lift place and cheat, it is just a question of to what degrees.

As long as everyone is playing by the same rules I couldn't care less whether or not they lift and place.

[Scott Warren]

Richard, I watched John Lyon play mudballs with a smile on his face at a couple of London courses. He walks the walk.

I'm more of a "live and let live" sort of guy myself... play the version of the game that makes you happy.

[Dan King]

Richard Choi writes:
I have yet to meet anyone who "plays as it lies". Not at tournaments, not at GCA get togethers, not anywhere.

My friends and I play two different games were we do not touch the ball between the tee and the hole. One is match play, where if you can not play the ball you are out of the hole and your opponent wins that hole. No touching the ball at all.

The other is a modified medal play, where if at any point during the round you can not play the ball as it lies you are out of the competition. The winner is the player who makes it through the most holes, if it is a tie, then it is the golfers at the end still in the game who has the lowest score.

It's a very enjoyable day when we play these games.

I understand this is a little two "unfair" for many of you golfers obsessed with fairness.

I still think touching the ball should be kept to a minimum. And when you do touch the ball (interference) it should be replaced exactly how you found it. Other than interference and perhaps GUI, any time you touch the ball it should cost you a stroke (Paul, that would be consistent with the 1744 Muirfield rules.)

Scott Warren writes:
I'm more of a "live and let live" sort of guy myself... play the version of the game that makes you happy.

I have no problem with people playing golf however they want, as long as they leave the course as they found it and they don't hold me up behind them. I do have a problem with the ruling bodies taking the game away from the spirit of the game -- which is keeping your f&#king hands off the golf ball.

Cheers,
Dan King

What golf has of honour, what it has of justice, of fair play, of good fellowship, and sportsmanship - in a word, what is best in golf - is almost surely traceable to the inspiration of the Royal and Ancient.
  --Isaac Grainger

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