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Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Dellwood CC
« on: September 28, 2010, 01:03:45 PM »
I count myself as very fortunate to have caught the note from Patrick Mucci regarding Steve Lapper's invitation to see and play Dellwood on the Saturday before the Mountain Ridge event.

Dellwood is a Tillinghast ESTATE COURSE that was built for Adolf Zukor, the founder of Paramount Studios.  Zukor's original arts and crafts style home now serves as the clubhouse.  Due to the Great Depression, Zukor ended up selling the course and it ended up as it is today - Dellwood CC.

Dellwood is in New City, NY (Rockland County), only a few miles from the Hudson River.  

Folks - this is a golf course that deserves your attention!  Dellwood is not a Top 100 type course, but that shouldn't dissuade you from experiencing the architecture out there.  It has a very high fun factor, wonderful putting surfaces, awesome views of the surrounding mountains.

For example, the 2nd hole is a par 5 that's slightly downhill from tee to green.  The views of the mountain (High Tor?) are wonderful as you approach the green.  I think the 2nd green is fairly typical in a good way - It had a lot of subtle slope and was quite large (nice to see it hadn't shrunk over the years).  Well bunkered surrounds too.

Tillinghast made great use of the terrain.  Holes always seemed to either go up or down subtle slops - Other than #1's approach, you don't have any crazy uphill/downhill/side-hill issues.   Any elevation changes add strategic interest.

Tillinghast's bunkering was A-OK too.   I thought bunkers were very well placed and added additional interest, especially on approach shots.

The condition of the course was first rate - firm and fast with no real "Summer of Hell" damage.  Lies were tight in the fairway and challenging in the rough.  Greens were essentially flawless.

To say I was impressed would be an understatement.  

My only nits were the presence of several non-Tillinghast bunkers.   Fortunately anybody could pick out the non-original bunkers and I'm hoping that their restoration will be relatively straightforward.

Thanks again to Steve and Kyla Jones for their warm welcome!




Lenny Polakoff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2010, 01:35:59 PM »
Dan,

Glad you enjoyed the golf course.  It is only going to get better.  If anybody would like to play over the next few weeks, you are welcome as my guest, as well as the offer Steve has put out there. 

We (the membership) are excited about what's to come with the renovation by Jim Urbina, and would like the GCA folks to have a chance to play it. 

If anyone wants to take me up on my offer, please PM me.

Best regards,
Lenny

Mike Sweeney

Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2010, 05:28:49 PM »
While the Dellwood first hole second shot leaves you with a Yaleish view, the terrain is NOT that rugged:


The second hole gives you a gentle bounce in to contrast with the first:


The bunkering on the third hole was well done - maybe a bit modern. I have not seen any of the original Tilly drawings:



Bill Steele was able to navigate a bit short:



Lots of quirk and funk which you don't see on a typical Tilly. This was a pleasant surprise for me:




Fabulous green sites that just needed a little cleaning up:








The road cuts through 1 and 7 similar to National and Shinnecock but it is really in the landing zones, so that will need to be addressed. I liked how it played as a hazard now but the club's insurance company must have fits:


Mike Young and the group played the forward tee as the 7th will probably be shortened to a Par 4 to take the road out of play, and yes Mike Young the Architect can play:



As previously posted, Mike looking for Old Dead Guys  :D :


These holes could probably use some new/restored fairway bunkering, but the terrain does not need too much:




Fabulous Short Par 4 #14 (I think) from a bad camera angle. Would love to see the original bunker drawings/aerial:


Maybe a little tree work here and there, but not much:


I did not get any pictures of the greens as they were too much fun to putt to take pictures. They were all outstanding and seemed pretty original to me.

Oh and the Boys from Georgia smoked us in our backyard (if you consider Bill's Ohio part of the yard):


« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 09:19:50 PM by Mike Sweeney »

Mike_Young

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Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2010, 06:26:21 PM »
Mike,
We had a great time at Dellwood..I don't know much about the ODG's but it was a good Tinglehast course.  Thoroughly enjoyed it.  All of the holes were good and would be quite member friendly...even the first just needed to open the driving angles in the fairway a little.  You could definitely tell the new bunkers.  I am assuming they were much deeper than the originals  they replaced.  I think the supt name was Brian and if I was doing anything there it would be to give him more budget and let him have a go at it...am sure the restoration will compliment what is there but could not see much that would not be enhanced with Brian and equipment etc.....not to say a bunker project would not help...oh...practice area.. it could be possible to make 8 into hole #9 and extend the practice area into the present #9....and then gain the par three in the corridor of what is now Par5 hole #7....but I don't know if Tinglehast would approve. ;D

As for Pat's monday outing...we listened to the talks...enjoyed them...saw the rain and had lunch then got in the car and drove all the way back to Athens by 12 lunch today....come see us...
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2010, 06:34:51 PM »
I can't wait to see Jim's work there.  

Just to reiterate  -  Dellwood has intangibles in spades.  The mountain views are absolutely wonderful.   And the history is a story well worth telling: http://www.tillinghast.net/Tillinghast/Dellwood.html

PS - Mike Sweeny - your images are giving me an "Unauthorized" message...  This is the URL I'm seeing:  https://www.me.com/ro/mws13/Galleries/100145/IMG_1691/web.jpg?ver=12855514860001 - I'm guessing the me.com website requires a userid/password.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 06:37:24 PM by Dan Herrmann »

Brian Chapin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2010, 07:02:14 PM »
Dan - glad you were able to make it out.  I'm sorry I wasn't able to meet you and Laura, but I am very glad to hear you enjoyed the golf course. 

Dellwood is a special place and is about to improve significantly.  GCA.com has been instrumental so far in putting together an "All-Star" team and we expect the results to be nothing short of spectacular.  Hopefully Mike will be able fix the link for the pictures so you all can get a good look at the "before" (if someone could explain to me how to post pictures I could post a few myself).  If you like, come play the golf course.... GCAer's are definetly welcome.... We'll put it all on Lapper's Tab  ;D.

Get in touch if you want to see it.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2010, 07:07:12 PM »
Brian - I am a spoiled brat when it comes to course conditioning.  I'm fortunate enough to play at a course with Bruce Cadenelli as our head greenkeeper (he's old school and prefers that title).

I was tremendously impressed by the work Brian and his crew are doing.    It's obvious that Brian loves firm and fast.  What I loved the most about his maintenance practices was the way it enhanced Tillinghast's work. 

Lenny Polakoff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2010, 07:56:25 PM »
To Dan's point, Brian has done an incredible job during what was an extremely difficult summer.

Brian if you pick this up, I am playing sat morning. Try to find me, want to go over something with you.

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2010, 08:41:39 PM »
Dan - glad you were able to make it out.  I'm sorry I wasn't able to meet you and Laura, but I am very glad to hear you enjoyed the golf course. 

Dellwood is a special place and is about to improve significantly.  GCA.com has been instrumental so far in putting together an "All-Star" team and we expect the results to be nothing short of spectacular.  Hopefully Mike will be able fix the link for the pictures so you all can get a good look at the "before" (if someone could explain to me how to post pictures I could post a few myself).  If you like, come play the golf course.... GCAer's are definetly welcome.... We'll put it all on Lapper's Tab  ;D.

Get in touch if you want to see it.

Brian,
Good to meet you....have fun..and you have done a good job there....
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Mike Sweeney

Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2010, 09:21:51 PM »
Got the MAC issues figured out and the pictures (smaller) should be above now.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2010, 09:50:18 PM »
MIke - Thanks for the pictures.

I'm glad you posted 9 and 14 phtos.  To me, these are great holes with 1960-ish styler bunkers, which I'm figuring are not original.   I can't wait to see what Jim creates up there.


Steve Lapper

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Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2010, 01:42:15 PM »
I count myself as very fortunate to have caught the note from Patrick Mucci regarding Steve Lapper's invitation to see and play Dellwood on the Saturday before the Mountain Ridge event.

Dellwood is a Tillinghast ESTATE COURSE that was built for Adolf Zukor, the founder of Paramount Studios.  Zukor's original arts and crafts style home now serves as the clubhouse.  Due to the Great Depression, Zukor ended up selling the course and it ended up as it is today - Dellwood CC.

Dellwood is in New City, NY (Rockland County), only a few miles from the Hudson River.  

Folks - this is a golf course that deserves your attention!  Dellwood is not a Top 100 type course, but that shouldn't dissuade you from experiencing the architecture out there.  It has a very high fun factor, wonderful putting surfaces, awesome views of the surrounding mountains.

For example, the 2nd hole is a par 5 that's slightly downhill from tee to green.  The views of the mountain (High Tor?) are wonderful as you approach the green.  I think the 2nd green is fairly typical in a good way - It had a lot of subtle slope and was quite large (nice to see it hadn't shrunk over the years).  Well bunkered surrounds too.

Tillinghast made great use of the terrain.  Holes always seemed to either go up or down subtle slops - Other than #1's approach, you don't have any crazy uphill/downhill/side-hill issues.   Any elevation changes add strategic interest.

Tillinghast's bunkering was A-OK too.   I thought bunkers were very well placed and added additional interest, especially on approach shots.

The condition of the course was first rate - firm and fast with no real "Summer of Hell" damage.  Lies were tight in the fairway and challenging in the rough.  Greens were essentially flawless.

To say I was impressed would be an understatement.  

My only nits were the presence of several non-Tillinghast bunkers.   Fortunately anybody could pick out the non-original bunkers and I'm hoping that their restoration will be relatively straightforward.

Thanks again to Steve and Kyla Jones for their warm welcome!





Dan,

   I'm so glad you and Laura so enjoyed your day at Dellwood.

   Yours and the Mikes assessments are unquestionably accurate and much appreciated. No doubt the course, in it's present form, isn't Top 100 material, but I'll go out on the proverbial limb and bet anyone that post a Jim Urbina overhaul, it earns those types of accolades and eventual quantitative reviews. The bones are there and Jim's ability to bring his terrific talents to bear should produce something very, very special and worthy of inclusion to the list of the finer US courses.
  
   With Monday's GCA fest at MRCC as the fine example of great past and present architecture mated with talented greenskeeping, it's my fervent wish that one day we'll hold a similar function at DCC (or whatever new, better, name it has then!).

    Until then, I invite each and every GCA'er to come up and experience the "pre" version. As Brian said, we'll put it on the Lapper tab (and that's so darn rare, it's a good enough reason to make the trip)!

    I'll keep the treehouse informed of what transpires up there, but a special thanks belongs to the owners for their desire to always improve, Phil Young for his historical perseverance , George Bahto for his critical eye,  Jim Urbina for his vision, Brian Chapin for his TLC and finally GCA.com for it's insanity. Without these ingredients, the hidden gem that is Dellwood today, would just be another potentially tragic NLE at worst, and an unidentifiable mess at best.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 03:16:05 PM by Steve Lapper »
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Billsteele

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Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2010, 02:42:20 PM »
Let me also chime in and add that Dellwood was an unexpected and welcome treat on my trip from Ohio to the Mucci-fest at Mountain Ridge. Having practically no expectations when teeing off, the golf course captivated me from the approach on number one (which is reminiscent of 10 at Yale) to the par three 18th. The greens with interesting internal contours, the clever use of the natural characteristics of the land and a nice variety of holes combine to make for a terrific and fun round.

The work that has been done already shows what potential Dellwood has. A number of trees have been removed and some of the greens lost to mowing patterns over the years have been recaptured. The conditioning was terrific and the greens were rolling just fine after being aerated only about two weeks prior to our Sunday round. I can only imagine what they would be like when they have fully recovered.

The only drawback to the course is the awkwardness created by an active road crossing the landing areas on #'s 1 and 7. This probably was a country lane at one point but is now a fairly busy street very much in play. In talking to Steve and Brian, I know that there are different ideas floating around to minimize the road's role in those holes (such as possibly converting #7 to a par four by moving the tees up). By the way, the 7th does feature a very cool sunken green that only allows you to see the top half of the flag from the fairway and does not really reveal itself until you are almost on top of the putting surface.

I had the pleasure of playing with Steve and Brian on Monday. They both understand what is special about Dellwood and have a clear vision of what else they want to accomplish there. Brian has a great appreciation for how the golf course should be set up to maximize the strategy inherent in the design and to make it a flat out riot to play.  Anyone who has the chance will not be disappointed in making the effort to see this course.

On a side note, it was quite an experience to play with Mike Sweeney, "Tinglehast" expert Mike Young and his pal Woody. Unfortunately, Mike Y. must have misplaced Woody after our round on Sunday because there has been no further mention of him since. Maybe we should place his picture on a milk carton and distribute it in Allentown, PA.

Mike Policano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2010, 08:54:05 AM »
I got to play Dellwood this week.  What a pleasant surprise!  I only live 30 minutes away and I had no idea that it was such a gem. Great greens with some of Tillie's trademark optical illusions. "I thought that green was level until I saw my ball whipping left to right across the green." The greens were really fun and challenging to play.

Hole after hole was interesting as is and showing their potential for Jim U. to develop. I can't wait to see what Jim will do with holes like 1 and 17. I had a great time with Brian the super playing the back nine.

The only drawback to the day was having to look for yet another wayward Lapper shot every hole!!!!

Matt_Ward

Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2010, 09:54:44 AM »
I've played Dellwood a few times but nothing recent. Best wishes to the work being carried out. Just a question -- the proliferation fo the trees as they encroach on the fairways -- will they be trimmed back substanially or even eliminated in certain areas. Would allow wayward drives to fly even further into trouble. Just a thought ...

Phil_the_Author

Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2010, 11:25:50 AM »
Matt,

Jim is currently formulating the master plan. Safe to say that some tree removal will be included!

Mike, I hope Steve gave you my best and I'm glad you got to play it "before." This is going to be a very special course when it is finished.

Brian Chapin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2010, 05:35:43 PM »
Matt - If you haven't played recently you may not realize how many trees have come out over the past 5 years.  9 of the trees on 10 and 11 in the pictures above are gone this week. We have a way to go yet, but many of the corridors have already been removed.  In fact, one of Jim's first comments to me was that he was pleasantly surprised to find the golf course was much less crowded than he had expected.  

How long has it been?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 05:38:23 PM by Brian Chapin »

Phil_the_Author

Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2010, 06:24:43 PM »
Brian,

Be acreful! To many of us Mat is the "Devil's Spawn" the "AntiChrist" and "The Curse of the Mummy" all rolled into one! Don't let his likeability fool you!  ;)

Jeff Loh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2010, 07:17:56 PM »
My wife and I also got to play Dellwood on a beautiful Saturday in late September.
Many thanks to Steve for setting it up and Brian for being a gracious and wonderful host.
Not much to add--agree about the trees. We were lucky to see an arial from the early 40's in the clubhouse when we were leaving and it looked like  there were far fewer trees back in the day. There was a certain monotony to "hit it down the middle." Also noticed some native areas (to the right of 4 fairway) that could be brought back if the trees are thinned. It played great (fast and firm) and par is definitely defended at the greens. Several 3 putts out there to say the least!
Some fairway bunkering would certainly add strategic interest. Back nine more impressive than the front. Some fine holes when you get to that part of the property.
Steve--I owe you $$ for vodkas and a phone call.
Brian--The invite to the Orchards doesn't expire until 2020.
Thanks guys!
Jeff and Susanna

Dan Herrmann

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Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2010, 09:18:04 PM »
Jeff,
Did you like #2 as much as I did?  What a view as you head down that hill!

Actually, Laura had birdies on #2 and #3 - the first consecutive birdies she's ever had.  And those sure weren't exactly easy holes either!

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2010, 08:57:14 PM »


The 7th hole at Dellwood used to have a traffic light on the tee that was snynchronized with the traffic light at the intersection to the right in the picture..
This was before the "right turn on red" law.

When the traffic light for the intersection was green for through traffic, the light on the tee was red.4, and you weren't allowed to hit your drive.

When the light at the intersection was red for through traffic, the light on the tee was green and you could hit your drive.

It was quite unique.

Jeff Loh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2010, 08:05:33 PM »
Dan
Yes I did enjoy #2--again it felt a little claustrophic with all those trees down the left side but nice use of the natural terrain. Would love to play it again. As a first timer it was hard to know exactly where to hit it from the tee.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2010, 08:21:35 PM »
Jeff,
Neither did I, but that's one of the charms of playing a course for the first time.

Jeff Loh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2010, 09:19:33 PM »
Dan
"It's only blind once"
B Crenshaw?

Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dellwood CC
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2010, 10:53:44 AM »
In reviewing the pictures, it appears to me significant "selective pruning" of the plantings running parallel to the faieways shown may need to be studied.  Hopefully the club can locate the original estate routing to see what the original desin intent for each hole was. 

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