[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

High School and College golfers are the slowest, which does not bode well for the game's future!
They have grown up onbersing the tour players and thier deliberate ways and then exagerate all they have seen.
We host a high school event every October and threesomes are taking in excess of 4;45..ridiculous.
I attended a college event in the spring where the rounds were in excess of five hours, and ALL coaches recieved slow play warnings on the rules sheet...no penalties incurred during the event at all!!!!!

[Jason Topp]

NOT Jason Topp

 

I actually play a lot of 5 hour rounds at a public course and it doesn't bother me most days.  I just go with the flow.

If I had to do that all the time, however, I would probably only play a fourth of the golf I do play, simply because other more important aspects of life would not allow me to play as much.

Public courses could mothball country clubs in the US if they could figure out how to have 3-1/2 hour rounds.

[JNC Lyon]

Jeff Overton just set the record for the fastest round in PGA Championship history.  He played his final round in 2:09.

It seems like some of the younger players on tour (Overton, Bubba, DJ) are faster.  However, many of the vets are egregiously slow.  I think Tiger Woods in a major championship is as insufferable as anyone.

[Carl Nichols]

Is anyone aware of a group of pros letting another group play through?

[Joe Bausch]

Jeff Overton just set the record for the fastest round in PGA Championship history.  He played his final round in 3:09.

It seems like some of the younger players on tour (Overton, Bubba, DJ) are faster.  However, many of the vets are egregiously slow.  I think Tiger Woods in a major championship is as insufferable as anyone.

Overton played in two hours nine minutes as a single going off on the weekend at WS.  I'm guessing you had a typo jnc!

I would like to know how long Tiger took to play at the Barclays for the early round where his group went off first. 

[Chris Flamion]

If you have one day to live, go to a high school golf tournament. It will seem like forever.

This actually came up at an all coaches meeting recently for the school I coach at.  The girl's team plays so slow that a number of teams have turned down the invitation to the tournament the school hosts.  At a private, that the majority of the Chicago GCA contingent isn't aware of let alone played.  That is bad.... I hung my head during this bit.

[Bob_Huntley]

Every game of golf should be played with the continuous putting rule. The marking and realigning putts is the ruination of the game.

Bob

[Pat Burke]

I was first off with Mark calcavecchia on a sunday in Milwaukee in 1990 I think.
We had an official come up to us on 17 , not really upset, but letting us know we MUST
give an honest effort.  We were playing to fast!

We played in under 2:15, bot shot 5 under, and finished about 4 or 5 holes ahead of the second group!

That was a fun round

[Jim Nugent]

We played in under 2:15, bot shot 5 under, and finished about 4 or 5 holes ahead of the second group!

Pat, did you notice the pace of play change, as you moved up through the ranks of competitive golf? 

[Jason Baran]

Another nomination for the fast club is John Daly.  The guy just flies.  And the only thing quicker than John Daly on the course is John Daly on the range.  He hits about 4 balls for every ball hit by an average tour pro.

[Terry Lavin]

Based on my observations, I'd say the college players are unforgivably slow and worse than the other amateurs and far worse than tour pros.

[Steve Strasheim]

I find this discussion very interesting.

Young players are being taught that they should be slow and deliberate to be a champion. Jack and Tiger have both been criticized for being slow and deliberate and they are perhaps the greatest champions of all time. Can any player be "fast" and be a multiple major winner? John Daly, I guess, but not sure if he was just as fast back in the day.

[Tim Pitner]

Steve,

I recall Tom Watson being a fast player.  McIlroy looks to fit the bill . . .

From my experiences at the International (RIP), I remember the pros taking an absolute eternity on the greens--it's far worse live than when watching on TV.  Jim Furyk and Ben Crane are particularly excruciating.  Are LPGA pros and amateurs worse?  I would guess so, but I haven't seen enough of their golf to know. 

[Steve Kline]

My first time trying to qualify for the Mid-Am a few years ago was my first time playing in a tournament with the USGA pace of play guidelines. I was in the first group and even though I'm a fast player I was worried about keeping the right pace. Well, my group finished about 45 minutes under the alloted time and about 4 holes ahead of the group behind us. And, playing fast didn't hurt me as I qualified. At the Mid-Am that year in my match we had to wait on every single shot - and I mean every one. We asked our referee why the guys in front weren't put on the clock. He told us that the time set for a two-man match was around 4 hours (Egads!) and they were ahead of pace.

I'm am always waiting on the people in my group. I walk fast and tend to get to my ball first. I study the green as I'm walking to it so I can pre-read my putt. I never take practice swings except for chip shots and two quick practice strokes for putting to feel the speed.

When I take my wife and son out to play (both beginners) the entire round is me telling them how to play faster.

[JSlonis]

From what I've seen at the local level, the college kids are painfully slow as a group.  While there are some exceptions, the large majority take way too long to do just about everything on the course.

Here locally, the GAP has done a good job at identifying the slower players in events and base their tee times accordingly.  The turtle groups are easily identified.  One of our best local players who has been known to be "deliberate" just got zapped with a 3 stroke penalty out at the US Am this past week.  Maybe it takes something like that to light a fire...we'll see. I can't recall if any slow play penalties have been given out in any of the GAP major events.  There is no question that some were warranted at times.

The worst example of slow play that I've seen at the professional level was during last year's Solheim Cup.  Fourball matches took 6 hours!!

[JLahrman]

I have had an e-mail on this subject from a friend over the pond who has advised me that the slowest players he encountered were American.

As an American, I can only hope that this statement is true.  It's bad enough that it takes 5 hours to play a weekend round at a public course, I would hope that no other country is taking longer.

Whether muni hacker or top player, the advice simple:  Be. Ready. To. Hit. Your. Damn. Ball. When. It. Is. Your. Turn.  A long preshot routine can be workable if it overlaps other players so that the player is ready to hit the ball.  Nothing drives me crazier than waiting on a group in front of me, and seeing none of them doing anything that remotely has anything to do with hitting a golf ball.

While I'm sure I would be a slower player than I am if I played competitively, and certainly if I were competing for a major title and lots of cash, I cannot believe that so many players think that being so painfully deliberate helps their score.

Taking 60 seconds to shoot a free throw never helped me a bit.

[Pat Burke]

We played in under 2:15, bot shot 5 under, and finished about 4 or 5 holes ahead of the second group!

Pat, did you notice the pace of play change, as you moved up through the ranks of competitive golf? 

Jim, my case was strange I thought.  i was pretty darn quick in college, and when I first turned pro.  The problem was,
the pace of play on tour was so dreadful, that I learned to slow down!     Being fast just meant standing around more.
The pace of play rules on the Tour were absurd.  the GROUP had to be out of position, and then the entire group was put on the clock if the fell behind.  The turtles learned how to work the system, and could speed up when on the clock.  Problem was, it always seemed the quicker players hit it on a weird spot while on the clock, and felt pressed to hit their shot, while the turtle went about his merry way

I ran a short lived mini tour, and we stressed pace of play.  Told the players we would put only the slow players on the clock (not the group), and would assess shots at the 2nd bad time.  One thing we did well, according to the players, was keep the players informed as to their time on course.  Knowing they were playing a good pace, was a very large positive.  We played both rounds at la Quinta Mountain in under 4 hours easily!
Only made ONE pace of play warning.  Watched one player throw his club coming off the 17th green.  He had to walk 30 yards back for the putter.  I rode up to him, and he asked if he was in trouble for throwing the club.  I told him he was in trouble for throwing the club backwards.  If he threw it forward, it wouldn't slow play, so he owed the players in the clubhouse a beer.  Funny thing is, when I came off the course, he had bought 2 groups of players beers!

[Lester George]

I caddied for a friend in the US Open during what is still considered the fastest round ever played at the Open.  Twosome, 2:37 minutes!

Lester

[Jim Nugent]

I caddied for a friend in the US Open during what is still considered the fastest round ever played at the Open.  Twosome, 2:37 minutes!

Lester

Can you tell us when and where?

[Lester George]

Jim,

Baltusrol (93 maybe)

Group was Robert Wrenn and Robert Gamez.  On the 14th hole a USGA official told us we were 47 minutes ahead of the group behind us.  We went out first that day.  Both players shot par or thereabout as I recall.

Lester

[Jerry Kluger]

I really do believe it is a function of one group that destroys the pace of play for the entire day - it even happens at my home club.  The problem is that the PGA Tour, LPGA, etc., the players slow themselves down to the pace of play of the slowest player otherwise they are standing and waiting all the time which is a lot worse for their game. 

[Phil McDade]

Can any player be "fast" and be a multiple major winner? John Daly, I guess, but not sure if he was just as fast back in the day.

Trevino was a very quick player. One of his most famous shots -- his chip-in during the late stages of the 3rd round at the '72 Open Championship at Muirfield -- was done without a pratice swing of any kind. He just walked up to the ball (in part because he'd played it badly up to that point, and thought he was going to bogey it), and knocked it on the green -- and in the hole!

I do think a quality that good high school players have to learn is how to sit on tees for 15 minutes -- especially on par 3s -- and wait their turn to hit. There is so little rhythm to the game at the HS level, it's amazing anyone shoots anywhere near par.

[Tim Martin]

If you have one day to live, go to a high school golf tournament. It will seem like forever.

I never realized how true the above statement was until this weekend.  Have a son who is 13, about a bogey golfer, walks up to his ball takes a practice swing and hits.  Is ready to put when it is his turn, one practice swing and hits.  Pace never an issue.  He had 3 of his friends out this weekend, all single digits going into their senior year in high school.  We played in a foursome behind them.  Halfway into the front nine on both Saturday and Sunday they already have a couple of open holes ahead of them on a course where a quick pace is expected.  The deliberation over each shot was painful to watch from a distance.  Discussion on pace with the three high schoolers resulted in blank stares.  They didn't see anything wrong with it (until I told them if they couldnt play up to the group in front, they could pick up their balls and walk until they did...they finally caught up by 18).

Needless to say, i had loong talk with my son about which habits not to emulate and his responsibilities as a member...what he sees on TV can't help in the battle.

Jim-Great post. Kids need to be told that they are not the only ones on the course and that their pace of play affects everyone behind them. I can remember playing with my father as a kid and it seemed like he would let 3 or 4 groups go through on each nine we played until my brother and me either kept up or put it in our pocket when enough was enough. My son plays junior golf and it can be agonizing watching some of the players get it around.

[JLahrman]

Can any player be "fast" and be a multiple major winner? John Daly, I guess, but not sure if he was just as fast back in the day.

Would Angel Cabrera not be considered a fast player?

[JNC Lyon]

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