[Sean Leary]

Tim,

Maybe. To me it sounds kind of corny....of course I didn't initially like the name Old Mac either but it has grown on me.

[Matt_Ward]

Ed:

I have to think about that answer with a bit more thought. My overall top 50 and trop 100 listing (worldwide) is a tough one with so many outstanding courses. I simply answered with a quick reply that when held against other public courses where costs are capped at a max of $100 -- WV is on the very, very short list of superior plays. For many people as Jonathan C mentioned -- WV will be the closest they will get to a Sand Hills experience. They will not be cheated.

Ed, give me a day or two to answer your question -- sorry for the dodge ball initial reply it was not intentional.

I believe WV can safely make a top 200 listing.

Jeff L:

Yes, WV is infinitely better than Pound Ridge in my mind. WV evokes fun and passion -- PR, on the other hand, inflicts incessant pain for those who don't carry the name of Fred Funk for total straightness off the tee.

[Matt_Ward]

Garland:

Hold your horses -- been traveling and have not had much time to post. By the way -- maybe you or someone else can post the manner by which pics can be posted -- I'm slightly rusty on that front.

Bart:

Yes, you asked for three weaknesses -- let's just say I can count two of them -- one too many par-5 holes and one too many par-3 holes. I'll have to think a bit more for a 3rd weakness -- the course is THAT good and whatever ones there are certainly do not leap off the page as obvious.

Sean:

The name works for me given where the course is located and what is the dominant theme for the overall area.

[Matt_Ward]

WV's 3rd hole is a gambling downhill / tumbling par-5 hole -- plays 575 yards from the tips -- 535 from the next set of markers.

The tee shot is usually into the prevailing wind -- although it was not an issue when I played the hole.

There are two center-placed fairway bunkers on the hole -- the first requires a carry of 260 yards -- the 2nd a carry of 305 yards. One can play to the side of both -- those opting for the more daring left side can get a slight turbo boost and an oportunity to go for the green in two blows. Those staying to the right of the bunkers will need to play the hole in three shots.

There is a oond which jealously guards the left side of the hole -- any shot pulled can easily reach the water -- especially for those who want to give the green a try with their 2nd shot. There are 3 otrher bunkers which can come into play for 2nd shots -- two hugging close to the pond and one to the far right for any person who blocks the shot too far in that direction.

The green is another winner at WV -- goes from wide in front to more narrow in the rear -- there atre falloffs in different places so you need to judge with precision where to land the ball. A possible birdie hole but not without flawless execution.

[Garland Bayley]

Matt,

Just go the #21 on this thread and push the quote button. You will have clear examples of how to post pictures. All you need is the URL of the picture where it has been loaded on the web (such as at photobucket) which you can then fill in the fashion shown in #21.

[Garland Bayley]

The name Wine Valley probably doesn't help from a national marketing perspective. Haven't made it there myself yet and I live nearby.

Which would you rather visit? A wine valley, or a prairie? IMHO Prairie Club doesn't cut it for attracting attention. You can cross a continental divide in the prairie and have no idea one could possibly be in sight, with over 30 miles of visibility in all directions.

[Sean Leary]

The name Wine Valley probably doesn't help from a national marketing perspective. Haven't made it there myself yet and I live nearby.

Which would you rather visit? A wine valley, or a prairie? IMHO Prairie Club doesn't cut it for attracting attention. You can cross a continental divide in the prairie and have no idea one could possibly be in sight, with over 30 miles of visibility in all directions.

Again, to me, it just sounds a bit cheesy. Plus it is one letter off from Pine Valley, so it just isn't my cup of tea.

Besides, it isn't private so I have no interest in playing it.

[Daryl David]

Sean, forget the cheesy name and get your beer drinking ass over to Walla Walla (so nice they named it twice) and play the track.  It is a huge treat.  It certainly lives up to the praise Matt and others have given it. 

After the round, take in the wine scene and visit a few tasting rooms.  Pepper Bridge will blow your socks off and Seven Rivers has a three hole course you can play while drinking.  You will become cultured.   

In fact as I think of it, if they lifted the Wine Valley course, made it private and placed it somewhere around Napa, they would have a waiting list to join long as your arm.

[Matt_Ward]

Gents:

One of the more "wow" moments you have at WV is during a fabulous sunset as you sit on the rear veranda and observe all its glory.

Those seeking where and in what manner public golf needs to go should head to WV. I may have said this earlier -- but hatfs off to the course superintendent for the stellatr firm and fast conditions. Shotmaking and execution at a high level is certainly required and rewarded when carried out.

*****

WV's 4th hole -- 390 yards from the tips -- is another example of strategic thinking beginning at the tee. The hole plays slightl;y uphill and turns ever so gently to the left -- Playing down the right side opens up the entire green -- small problem is avoiding a well-placed bunker that hugs the right-center side of the fairway. It's not large -- but ever so pesky. Going down the left side avoids the aformentioned bunker but then you must hit your approach over one of the largest bunkers faced at WV. The green is diaginally placed so going left only leaves you a far smaller target to land your approach. The hole is another example that mega length alone doesn't result in a sure-fire birdie.

[Bart Bradley]

Matt:

You have still not answered where you would rank this course among those you have played. 

Bart

[Bill_McBride]

Matt:

You have still not answered where you would rank this course among those you have played. 

Bart

Actually I think he said "Top 200."

Which is pretty good for a guy with Matt's resume.

[Bart Bradley]

Matt:

You have still not answered where you would rank this course among those you have played. 

Bart

Actually I think he said "Top 200."

Which is pretty good for a guy with Matt's resume.

Bill:

If the course is only TOP 200, why can't he identify more than one weakness.  Courses that are Doak 10s still have weaknesses.  "One too many par 3s and one too many par 5s" is shameful analysis...give me a break.

Bart

[Bill_McBride]

Matt:

You have still not answered where you would rank this course among those you have played. 

Bart

Actually I think he said "Top 200."

Which is pretty good for a guy with Matt's resume.

Bill:

If the course is only TOP 200, why can't he identify more than one weakness.  Courses that are Doak 10s still have weaknesses.  "One too many par 3s and one too many par 5s" is shameful analysis...give me a break.

Bart

How would I know, I am NOT Matt!  But I do remember him saying WV would be in his Top 200.

[Pete_Pittock]

For those who have played a lot of other courses in Washington as well as Wine Valley, is WV the best piece of land occupied by a golf course, both for terrain and soils? I know that is subjective. My best comparable is Royal Oaks, and that is too clayey.

[Anthony Gray]

  WV is in my top five of "fun" courses.

  Anthony

[Matt_Ward]

Bart:

You ask for a definitive answer and given the amount and range of courses I have ever played that takes some digesting. I don't want to simply spit out a number -- lgeeze, it's the 154th best ! -- I want to think that one over. On the public side where courses can only charge a max of $100 Wine Valley is among my personal top five. Just a real good layout and one that gives public players an option of immense fun and challenge. Allow me a bit of time to ansser you in more certain terms.

Bart, one other trhig -- you say "shameful analysis" -- OK fair enough for you. I've played the place and I said that courses -- including WV -- which go the route of five par-5 andf five par-3 holes often run the risk in having holes that are inferior or less than what the better ones are. WV has that situation and I think the course would have been better served with a mofre traditional xi of no more than four par-3 and four par-5 holes.

Before you bark about my "shameful analysis" just play the course yourself and let me know what you think.. There are others on this site who have opined on the course and I went there to see if all the chatter were true or even close to it. The course exceeded my expectations.

[Matt_Ward]

WV's 5th hole plays 475 yards. You tee from a slightly elevated area and the hole turns ever so gradually to the left. The dieal drive is down the left side but there is a long bunker that follows that side. Just tug it left a hair and you find it. The best part of the hole is the green complex. Here you have a slight dip in the middle section with the front and back third being slightly higher. Missing to the side of the green with your approach leaves a tough recovery. I was fortunate to have played the hole when the prevailing wind into your face was nearly non-existent. The green is also narrow and deep and therefore club selection is critical -- being too far from the hole after your approach invites a likely bogey or more.

[Garland Bayley]

Where are the pictures Matt?

[Matt_Ward]

Garland:

Ease off partner -- I had a photographer with me and they are on another assignment now -- will be posted shortly. Trust me -- 

[Matt_Ward]

WV's 6th hole plays 210 yards and is a par-3. The hole generally plays downwind -- althoiugh calm air was present when I played it. The teeing area is enormous and the pin placement can be placed in the far corners to correspond to the length of the shot you play.

The green is divided into two sections and while balls can bounce into the green from the left side -- but anything that hits ont he corners will likely have the chipping areas repel them and send them farther away making for a very challenging recovery. The 6th is a not a great hole and is one of the weaker ones when all the par-3 holes are considered together but it requires the right club selection to have a go at a birdie try.

[Rob Rigg]

Wine Valley a bad name?

- Andrew Will
- Abeja
- Cayuse
- Leonetti

and so on and so forth - yeah, a couple of these are not open but you can find their juice in the town.

Wine Valley = heavily name for course in the wine country for any grape slut - mmm

Still need to get out there - for the golf . . . and other . . . stuff.

[Matt_Ward]

Rob:

WV does offer the golf side and the immediate vicinity does offer some interesting wine tasting options as well.

[Rob Rigg]

Wine Valley a bad name?

- Andrew Will
- Abeja
- Cayuse
- Leonetti

and so on and so forth - yeah, a couple of these are not open but you can find their juice in the town.

Wine Valley = heavenly name for course in the wine country for any grape slut - mmm

Still need to get out there - for the golf . . . and other . . . stuff.

Meant "heavenly" not "heavily" - and hit quote instead of modify.

36 at Wine Valley is ample calories burned for a fine meal and a few taste of a great cab or blend from the region.

[Matt_Ward]

WV's 7th hole is 625 yards and the tee shot starts with a challenge -- trying to favor the right side to get the best angle to the distant green.

The players are best advised to keep your ball down the right side because the green complex is one of WV's best. The green is heavily contoured and pitched from the left side and any ball finishing up after the 2nd shot on that side will be challenged to get somewhere near rthe pin when it's placed closer to that respective side. An easy bogey hole but one that will be quite miserly on the birdie give aways.

[Steve Burrows]

Matt W.

How about some critical analysis?  Your descriptions read like the website; that is, very fluffy descriptions, e.g., "...being too far from the hole after your approach invites a likely bogey or more, " or "There is a oond [sic] which jealously guards the left side of the hole."

For those of us who have not been there, please try to provide us a good reason to do so.  Don't try to sell us a membership with trite advertising gimicks aimed at people who have never seen a golf course before (which again, is how your words read from time to time).  Instead, engage us in an actual discussion about the holes.

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