Caddie Golf

[Sean_A]

There is no question Shivas is right.  I never caddied seriously, just the odd favour here and there, but when I was growing up, all the caddies were high school kids with the odd college kid (often an Evans Scholar) coming back for the summer or just servicing particular clients rather than showing up and taking blind bags.  These guys did a bit better than minimum wage, but had control over their work schedule unless there was a big event on such as the Invitational.  I had a kid once who was a fine caddy, nothing special, but did his job well enough.  The kid rakes in something like $120 for his efforts working a double.  That is totally unreasonable and those sorts of wages are not sustainable unless that mini economy is protected.  The thing is, why would someone want to foster inflated wages when they are paying the wages?  It makes no sense.  

The odd thing now is I caddy sometimes at Burnham.  Foreign tourists come and want the full service, but I won't go down for less than £75 a bag.  These guys pay it and I don't consider myself anywhere near a seasoned caddie!  The really funny thing is that the deal of changing out bags (which bugs me if a caddy tries it on me) is exactly what I do to make sure I have a light bag.  It amazes me that a guy will put up that, and pay that kind of money when it isn't required, but a sucker never gets an even break.  Get this, there are guys who caddy down there who use trolleys!  Anyone that plays links golf in the dunes knows that trolleys cannot go where carriers can go and so the trolley caddie is off somewhere else much of the time.  Its totally bizarre.  The visiting golfers would be much better served if they were to contact the club and enquire about junior members looking to make a few quid.  All the UK clubs should at least offer this service even if it turns out they can't get a junior to do the job sometimes.  The adult guy (me) should be a secondary outllet for back up purposes - just spare cash now and again.

Ciao    

[PCCraig]

sincere questions from someone without a llot of experince with caddies:

Shivas raised the issue of stiffing a caddy:  do people do this? 

At public/resort courses many probably do. But at most private clubs it's usually a flat rate.

he also raised the point about older people caddying and delivering newspapers...did this start because of a lack of good jobs for people?

also, others have raised the point that caddies' pay is not , for ex, $50/4hours = $12.50 an hour, since often times they have been sitting around for an hour or two, which to some then lowers their horly wage accordingly...although, $50/6 = $8something an hour, which is still above the min. wage!................

Paul, you're right it's still above minimum wage...but it's also pretty easy to find a job that pays at least $10 an hour at the mall. Plus it's easy to forget that if club A is single bag only @ $50 and club B is double bag @$100 for the same 6 hours spent at the club, where do you think a caddy is going to show up for work?

...............anyway, is a way to get around this for clubs to require their members to make tee times when caddies are required?...but i wouldnt want that if i was  a member, since what if i want to come out and play at the last minute?

Some places do this (usually public courses with tee times) and it's a huge benefit to the caddie.

[PCCraig]

Most members check "excellent" because it's the easiest option, why not impliment a policy where 3 "strikes" and the caddy is no longer allowed to work there anymore.

I've wondered this myself.  Honestly, I think the guys who actually did caddie are tougher graders than those who didn't.

This is true in my case. A proper understanding of how to caddie allows for flaws to be seen in other caddies much more quickly.

 I also think the reason no caddie program I've ever heard of kicks guys out like that is that word would get around and there would be a stigma to working there that would not be good.   These are fine lines.  One club I know of has so many kids that want to be caddies every year that they actually have a cut!  Others aren't so lucky.  So it's sort of case-by-case out of necessity.

Kicking people out wouldn't matter to the "free market" of available trained caddies because the higher fee in place (and the ability to double bag) would justify putting up with any risk, but at the same time it would weed out the "bad apples" as you say.

My primary issues are issues of complacency and effort.  I have no problem with mandatory caddies (just don't insult it by calling it a free market!   ).  I also have no problem with paying them well. (Like some others here have mentioned, I view a portion of a caddie's fee as quasi-charity, which is why I don't like paying guys who half-ass it because I generally prefer charities where the recipients are hard workers who bust their butts and have need, which is why I love the Evans Scholars so much).  I don't even have much of a problem with doubles, as long as they're done properly and the guy is humping it to get to the ball.  

When I said "free market" I was looking higher than just at one private club, but at the entire caddy marketplace. A club's manditory caddie policy is a selling point to available caddies because they know they will get out and are willing to work for less per loop for the guarantee.

The bottom line is that I'd just rather see the money go to kids who love the game and have that gleam in their eye than to jaundiced grown men who don't.        
Like I said before, I agree that the ideal isn't having a 60 year old guy with mental issues and bad knees (I actually just had someone like this in my group at a high profile public course) as your caddie. But at the same time it can grow tiresome having 10 year old caddies who aren't trained and have little interest of being there either. The happy medium are train high school and college aged caddies...who probably represent 90% of caddies anyway.

[PCCraig]

Shivas:

Perhaps this is a solution for your issue with double baggers and other memberships that share the same feeling: Why not shrink the margin between a single and a double loop?

Let's assume a real world situation where caddies are currently making $50/bag for a single and $100/bag for a double. If a single bag caddie provides a premium in service why not raise the single bag rate to ~$60, and lower a double bag rate to ~$80. That way caddies have less of an incentive to try to carry doubles at a particular club (and don't feel slighted when they don't get a double), but it still allows the caddiemaster the ability to send doubles out when short on caddies and the caddies are at least getting a premium on the extra bag.

Just a thought.

[Jud_T]

What life lesson are the grown men carrying doubles learning? 

They're learning that you can show up to caddy hung-over, do a half-assed job and get paid more than any other job they're qualified for....

[PCCraig]

Paul, you're right it's still above minimum wage...but it's also pretty easy to find a job that pays at least $10 an hour at the mall. Plus it's easy to forget that if club A is single bag only @ $50 and club B is double bag @$100 for the same 6 hours spent at the club, where do you think a caddy is going to show up for work?

At what point do we tell the guy expecting to make $3K a month, all cash, carrying doubles that it's simply time for him to move on with his life and let two enthusiastic kids (like he once was) take over?

Whenever you want. That was a point I made earlier. Cap the allowable age to caddie at a club at 22. So, out of college...find another job. Which is totally up to the club.

[PCCraig]

Pat, on the whole, personally, I think a double is worth about 90% of a single, as long as he humps it and one of 'em is at the tee with a wet towel.  The 10% $ difference isn't worth worrying about.  What I'd rather see is an extra 10% effort.  

Ok, then why not drop the "mandatory" fee from $100 to $90 or $80. Then on the caddy slip leave room for a tip, with a maximum of $100.

[PCCraig]

Pat, for about the dozenth time, it's not about money.  You keep taking about $, but that's got nothing to do with it.

It's about that gleam in the eye, and the resultant eagerness and effort, that a young kid has that the complacent older guys simply don't.   I know that's not what you want to hear, but it's the truth.  It's not about paying caddies less; never was.  It's about creating a vibrant corps that really loves being there and enthusiastically does his 100% very best.  I pay attention to this stuff, and where I see it is in the kids.

Obviously, there's a point where caddies would become unaffordable, even for Bill Gates.  Although that's an important issue, that's not my issue here.  My issue here is effort and enthusiasm.  There are just too many caddies out there mailing it in.  For me, that's the bottom line, and I see it most often in long-term caddies that basically need to move on and do something else with their lives and let the next generation of kids have their shot.

Sorry to beat the dead horse some more, but it is about money. The biggest difference in you and I's opinion in caddies is that you think that young caddies will naturally work harder for less because they just enjoy being around a golf course...that may of been the case in the past, but my opinion is that today's caddies need incentives, like anyone else, because at the end of the day it's still a job (hence the pay). As I've said, caddying is fun, but it's not a substitute for a summer camp.

Again, if "complacent older guys" are the issue then clubs and their memberships should institute policies that don't allow them to caddy past a certain age...that's their right and it's a legit solution.

I've tried to list several somewhat real world solutions to this issue most on here seem to have with caddies, but more than anything else you're issue seems to be more with the kids growing up today.

[PCCraig]

Pat, it's only about the money to you.  If, as you said, "today's caddies need incentives", then that says everything about the expectationalist mindset of many of today's laughably-named "honor" caddies, a mindset that you unfathomably continue to espouse.

I suggest you spend a little time in a caddyshack (or at least place a bug in Exmoor's) because you would be shocked how the job about money to everyone, not just myself. I apologize for thinking that people (kids and adults alike) should be paid for doing a good job that there is a strong demand for.

God forbid a college aged kid wakes up pre-dawn on a weekend morning to caddy "all so they can pay their private college tuition in Boston."   What a terrible trait in a young man, how dare he work his way through college!   

All this talk of entitlement is ironic considering you seem to feel you're entitled to a young, cheap, caddy that should be happy to spend 4 hours on your club's grounds because, "hey, it's better than Burger King" and it's "just like playing golf, but without hitting any shots." Give me a break.

Reading and responding to your nonsense was and is a tremendous waste of time.