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Sean_A

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Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #50 on: August 30, 2010, 07:31:05 PM »
How often do you take caddies?

Do you enjoy playing golf with caddies?

Would you support a caddy program at your club?

How do you think caddy golf is important to the game of golf as a whole?

JNC

I almost never take a caddie; usually only if required - which is rare.  

I might support a caddie programme at my club for the odd round IF I can get a kid for £20 or £25.  I am not in the least interested in paying anything like a pro caddie's fee.  I don't tend to get good value out of caddies so I am not overly keen to pay over the odds for their services.    

Caddying is important in very small pockets of the game.  To me personally, it isn't in the least important, but for others caddying is very important.  To me golf is just a game and I am not interested in finding ways to make the game more expensive.  

Talk to me in 10 years.  Maybe my tune will have changed when carrying will likely be more of problem for me.  

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Ashridge, Kennemer, de Pan, Blackmoor, Eindhoven, Hilversumche, Royal Ostend & Alnmouth

Greg Stebbins

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Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #51 on: August 30, 2010, 11:07:49 PM »
I grew up caddying and really enjoyed the flexibility it gave me and the opportunity to make far more money than any other job I could get in college.  That being said, I believe that caddy fees are getting out of control and may be contributing to the demise of many private clubs as this represents a large hidden expense that must be accounted for.  I last caddied in 1999 and the fees have more than doubled since then.  This far outpaces inflation during the last 11 years and doesn't take into account the current state of the economy. How has this happened?

The fact is that if you are a member at a club and play over 30 rounds a year, what advice could a caddy possibly give you that you don't already know?  Essentially you are just paying for someone to carry your bag, keep the clubs clean, and tend the pin.  Is that really worth $60-$80 every time out on top of your dues?  Many clubs are allowing players to carry their own bags, but who is going to do that when the other 3 people in the group are all using a caddy?  I know that I have started to play in the afternoons more when I can get a game carrying my own bag as I can't continue to justify the cost. 

I might propose that the best way to keep caddies around at more courses is to start paying them less.


PThomas

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Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #52 on: August 30, 2010, 11:21:10 PM »

The fact is that if you are a member at a club and play over 30 rounds a year, what advice could a caddy possibly give you that you don't already know?  Essentially you are just paying for someone to carry your bag, keep the clubs clean, and tend the pin.  Is that really worth $60-$80 every time out on top of your dues? 

its not worth $60-80 every time, you are correct Greg
198 played, only 2 to go!!

archie_struthers

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Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #53 on: August 30, 2010, 11:37:01 PM »
 ;D :D :)

We had some good discussions on this a couple years ago and I didn't have much success arguing for a reduction of fees for loopers.  I really thought a forecaddie program could work at even the less affluent private clubs and would bring more kids into the game. Gven the state of the economy, a caddy is a special treat at 60 to 100  $$$$ per bag.  Most frequent players can't afford this.


As to one or two bags, when I was looping one bag just wouldn't pay the bills, even though my service was defintiely superior without the second bag.  Two good loopers can handle almost any foresome though, as they can share forecaddie duties and the like.

Kris Shreiner

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Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #54 on: August 31, 2010, 01:49:15 AM »
This is addressed to those in countries where there is an established caddie culture on some level. Even those without such a culture, you have benefitted from caddies, the links are just further removed.

The range and mentality of the responses by the GCA gang on the caddie dynamic questions posed has been truely revealing.  As a proud J.Wood Platt Caddie Scholarship alum, who found the game as a caddie at 12, my passion has a strong bias. I will wade into the "troubled waters" on this subject in the hopes of illuminating some folks. What one discerns from these FACTS is up to the individual.

1) Caddie golf has DEFINED the game for centuries. It has been the single, greatest source of the games champions, teachers and differencemakers in the sport's history. It also has provided the largest avenue, for folks of low or modest means, the access to golf.

2)Every trophy in the game worth anything is covered with the names of players who were caddies, or were taught by those that found or learned the game from others that caddied. THAT IS IRREFUTABLE!

3)Many of the best courses, past AND present, were designed or built by those that have caddie roots to thank. Many of the owners of golf courses found the game at an early age as a caddie. Ten of thousands of golf and related industry professionals can point to a caddie background as pivotal in them finding the game. ANYONE claiming caddie golf as not having, or continuing to have a TITANIC impact on the sport...has forgotten their history and has needs a primer!

4) For those that may need proof caddie golf is still contributing to the game at a championship level.... 2006 U.S Amateur Champion Richie Ramesy-caddie Royal Aberdeen, (who won stateside with a Taylormade putter given to him by an American player he worked for earlier in the season that year!), 2008 PGA Tour Rookie of the Year Andres Romero- former caddie, Argentina, 2-Time Major Winner Angel Cabrera, latest, 2009 Masters- former caddie, Argentina,recent Indian Masters Champion S.S.P. Chowrasia- former caddie, India.

5)NO buggy, pullcart, skycaddie or any other AID to play the game EVER taught or took a lesson, bought clubs or equipment, joined a club, taught their kids, brought a friend to the game, won an event etc. ....you get the picture!

I could go on and on about all the contributions made by countless caddies...it's not necessary...only those with the deepest apathy can avoid the obvious conclusions.

Sadly, WHAT WE ALL, INCLUDING THE GAME ITSELF, stand to lose by ignoring or making excuses for not saluting AND supporting caddie golf whenever possible is IMMENSE. Imagine the R&A, USGA ,and any other golf museums you care to mention, stripped of anything with caddie roots attached...pretty vacant space folks! What will we contribute to future golfers...that we were to selfish and greedy to care?

To those out there that don't quite realize it, the game they play and enjoy today...owes an enormous debt of gratitude to the humble (and sometimes not!) caddie. You may not experience it directly...but it is a powerful, enduring legacy with footprints extending to every corner of the globe.

I don't fault any of you, who disagree, for your feelings. Many in the game, that I admire, have expressed similar views. Those leaders in the industry, and running the administrative bodies in the sport, have done a woeful job "re-investing" in caddie golf. The lavish, let's face it, obscene in many cases, salaries these folks enjoy today, have been garnered in part on the backs of the countless differencemakers provided to the game from the caddie ranks. Yet they turn THEIR backs?!

So, what to do about it? Well, many here lament the cost, which has gotten excessive in certain arenas. Others comment that many of the caddie experiences are marginal, or worse. What almost all agree on...is the quality caddie, with associated cost depending on varied caliber, is worthwhile. That should be the focus...FOSTERING A HEALTHY, QUALITY CADDIE EXPERIENCE TO ENJOY!

Financial conditions worldwide are difficult. Many will rarely, if ever, take, or have the opportunity to take caddies. We can accept this, but that is not a reason to dismiss understanding of, or support for... caddie golf. You don't need to have cancer to speak positively about finding a cure.

For folks that take caddies and may be needing to cut back, fine. Take a caddie when you can. Remember, it's not the percentage of total caddie rounds played that matters. Continuing the opportunities for caddie golf, that's what critical...because from that, passionate differencemakers emerge to foster the game. Youngsters especially, can learn AND earn golf in a stimulating, safe environment.

Now, I'm of quite modest means. Except for student GCA ers, I'm certainly on the lower end of the income scale around here. That said, I will always take a caddie if possible, when one is available. I value what the caddie dynamic and given me and the game. Do I expect others to do the same...no! It is a personal choice. Do what you feel is right. But there is no need to disparage caddies. They are human beings, some are better than others, just like all of us.

My final comments will address what I feel is needed most.

1)Solid Caddie Mentors and outreach, to help facilities run quality programs...are critical elements to sustaining caddie golf.

2)Quality programs, properly supported, flourish. Poorly supported and run ones struggle and die, it's that simple!

If the caddie dynamic continues to be left to wither, without the proper "re-investment" from the game, golf will be far poorer for our ignorance. History confirms it...caddie golf has been the foundation of our sport's past, still carries it today and better be relevant going forward or we face a bleak future.

Sincerely yours on the links...cheers,

Kris 8)


"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

Simon Holt

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Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #55 on: August 31, 2010, 06:40:33 AM »
Kris,

As ever well said.

I wont bore everyone with my caddie stories but I will say that the 12 years I spent caddying as a high school student and later at University gave me not only a huge appreciation for GCA but an education in life skills that help me everyday in my adult life.

Time keeping, communication, presentation, networking, evaluating....the best business education that I could ever have.  Why did I spend all that money at University???  Oh yeah, I got to play golf everyday for 4 years!  ;)

North Berwick, Muirfield, Gullane, Dunbar, St. Andrews, Kingsbarns, Carnoustie.....if you cant forge a future in the game with the people you meet caddying at these courses then you are not trying hard enough.  My advise to young GCAers that caddy...keep business cards, stay in touch, people in golf are 99% genuine and good to their word if they say they will help you out.  DONT IGNORE THOSE OFFERS OF HELP.  Then, a long way down the line, remember what helped you and take the opportunity to help others in the same way.

I am still in my 20s but feel like the old man when I preach to the juniors at North Berwick about the value of caddying and the contacts they make through it.  The ones that 'get it' become better golfers themselves and doors open by the dozen.

Caddying is the most solid foundation someone can have in the game.  We need to make sure the opportunities are there for our young golfers to progress beyond just the playing of the game.
2011 highlights- Royal Aberdeen, Loch Lomond, Moray Old, NGLA (always a pleasure), Muirfield Village, Saucon Valley, watching the new holes coming along at The Renaissance Club.

Dan Herrmann

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Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #56 on: August 31, 2010, 06:47:49 AM »
Kris,
Thanks for sharing - your passion for the topic is very apparent.

Question for you - we tried to start a caddy program and failed horribly.  Why - kids didn't want to do it.   We're semi-rural, and a kid would probably need a ride to get to the club - that alone eliminated a bunch of candidates.   

The non-top tier Philly area clubs* with successful caddy programs are probably located close enough were a kid could ride a bike safely.

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #57 on: August 31, 2010, 07:41:11 AM »

Just so I understand are we talking about caddies in general or the Professional Caddie who is there not just to carry the bag but to help navigate the Member or Visitor around the course.

Do not get me wrong as I have no problems with caddies although I tend to support the Professional rather than the student purely on potential knowledge. Having said that my own preference is never to use the services of Caddies as I love the potential bitter/sweet experience of playing an unknown course without assistance. It’s the anticipation of losing one’s virginity all over again and again. Or is it just the love for the old magical mystery tour.

As age starts to dress me with wrinkles, and I find relief in part from my back pain, I might one day utilise the services of a Caddie. Yet I am still not certain I want to know the distance or best approach shot, that for me is part of the enjoyment of playing golf, the ability to thinks and work it all out for oneself. So I suppose for the time being a Caddie would only serve as a club carrier as I am not nor do I want to be a golfing voyeur.

I would far prefer caddies in preference to distance markers, carts or any form of assisted help. Gentlemen used caddies, who quickly learnt that they had to think for their Gentleman in those early days in the hope of a good tip and the invitation to play, helping them become professional golfers in their own right.

It’s the old story of experience, experience, experience which I am afraid I always prefer to youthful inexperience, no matter how dedicated.

Caddies certainly have a place in the game and the individuals that came through from caddying have make names for themselves, but just as many have fallen by the wayside for a variety of reasons.

The big conundrum is with courses like TOC, I would always suggest using a Caddie for his knowledge, however the first time is always the most thrilling and I need to do it unaided, free to think for myself, but then that is what makes it so pleasurable, others may understandably feel the opposite.

Mine is a Caddie free game for ultimate freedom of the mind to hopefully works its magic – alas it very rarely gets the  support its deserves form the other parts of my body but then they say God loves a trier – don’t they? 

Melvyn

C. Squier

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Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #58 on: August 31, 2010, 09:16:53 AM »
Melvyn, we agree! 

I want my caddie to lug my bag from point A to point B.  He/she needs to beat me or arrive with me.  That's it.  I don't want a putting line, nor advice.  I certainly don't want to be handed a club.  Shivas wants more from his caddy which is fine....but realize they are 2 very different job descriptions.  For me, a double looper is perfect.  I play quickly and I've never once had a double that I felt was lagging.  Though I will say I tend to play with golfers of similar skill.  I can see a scratch getting frustrated when his double is a 25 hdcp hitting it all over creation. 

Kris Shreiner

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Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #59 on: August 31, 2010, 09:29:15 AM »
Melvyn,

 All QUALITY caddie experiences, be it delivered by younger or seasoned caddies, are worthy of a tip of the cap. It's the effort to make the player's experience better that counts most. Everyone has good days and bad days, we ALL do.

WorkingTOGETHER to enjoy the round is how most that take a caddie...best enjoy such an experience. Your own family history is inextricably linked to caddie golf. Wipe just their contributions from the record, a gaping hole in both champinship play AND course design would be evident. Did  those of their era, or they, start out as "experienced" caddies? Of course not!

The idea that you're cheapening the effort to play by taking a caddie is silly. Many who play a course, especially when traveling, will only play that track once. They certainly will benefit from a quality caddie experience. If a younger caddie is enthusiastic and well-trained,ie. mentored BY A VETERAN caddie, OR player, during their early rounds over the ground, they quickly can develop a competent level of performance.

Try to imagine yourself as that youngster, often of modest means, eager to embrace the game, just needing an opportunity to learn, have access to the golf environment AND the chance to earn some money in the process. Unless someone just doesn't care,or is selfish...it's a no-brainer where financially viable. The idea that it's simply "charity" to take a caddie, especially a younger caddie, shows a limited appreciation for what is transpiring.

Your views on the game are well-chronicled Melvyn. While I may not not agree with all of them, I certainly believe you are entitled to your opinions. One can play any way they wish, so long as they are respectul of others.

Money and greed have always been a threat to the game. Sadly, it's reached epidemic proportions and the correction is in process. It's when we take the time to assess that which benefits the game BEYOND our own personal needs and wants...there's where we can begin to see the bigger picture. Enjoy your game, it would not be anything close to what you envision... without caddie golf.

Dan,
You can be sure the program didn't have the proper leadership, structure or resources commited to ensure its success. "Kids are lazy today," is just another, in a long line of excuses...to justify why a caddie program can't make it or failed. If it IS SUPPORTED PROPERLY, it will flourish.

You have to FIND the young hustlers, and others that have what it takes. Contrary to what many believe, not everyone can do the job. A mix of age groups in your caddie ranks delivers the best programs in my view. They are out there, you have to know where to look and make the effort. Most facilities don't hire a caddie mentor of caliber. They pawn it off on an assistant pro who doesn't care about caddie golf, or hire someone on the cheap. As my beloved father-in-law always said, "You pay peanuts ,you get monkeys!"

Please IM me your contact info, as I'd like to follow up on a couple of thoughts with you.

Cheers,
Kris 8)

"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #60 on: August 31, 2010, 10:44:18 AM »

Kris

I do not know what you think I said but I have no problem with caddies. I just do not use caddies, never had because I want to play the game using my own abilities.  If I was going to use a Caddie I would use a more experienced individual, that’s nothing against youngsters, anyway I have not seen many young caddies at our main courses, albeit I have not looked.

Who’s cheapening what?, What all this about charity? Where are you getting all these from, certainly not from my post.
 
Kris feel free to rewrite my post using your own words as clearly you have not understood my comments. Anti Caddies, no. Do I use Caddies, No. Should Caddies be available, Yes – either for carrying clubs and/or advising golfers about the course.

AS I said I do not want to be a golfing voyeur, I’m there to play the game which requires my participation in both body and mind. For me the “effort to make the player’s experience better that counts most” is to play by my own abilities. Caddies are fine but just not for me , well not for the moment, anyway.

Melvyn

Chris Shaida

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Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #61 on: August 31, 2010, 10:47:24 AM »
How often do you take caddies?  As often as possible (50-60 rounds a season maybe).  I don't like carts at all (although I don't feel they are destroying the game  ;) and the courses I've liked the vibe of most are all courses without cart paths (Chechessee, Friars Head, Pacific Dunes, etc.).

Do you enjoy playing golf with caddies?  I do, very much.  And I'm not really all that demanding and am happy to adjust my expectations to the skill/experience of the caddy that day.  I don't see all that well so having somebody who can at least see/find my ball is a BIG deal for me.  If they can't read the greens it's not that big a thing.  I usually ask on the first green if they think they have a handle on the greens and if they say yes I try them out and ask for a read until they prove less than helpful.  I don't like caddies who provide information without being asked but I've found this to be pretty rare--I guess i've gotten good at quietly letting them know early what my priorities are (keeping their eyes on my ball, getting me ground yardages and only giving me other info when I ask).

Would you support a caddy program at your club? Would and do.  We have a pretty solid history of developing caddie scholars.  I think it's a great program and happily contribute both directly and by frequent use of caddies.  Our caddie master also knows that I'm happy to take out a new kid (he always tells me first) and help let them know what's expected of them.

How do you think caddy golf is important to the game of golf as a whole?
 hmmm...not sure I'm up to any great thoughts on this but I do think for golf to thrive it needs to expand its current social and cultural boundaries and caddying is one entry point for doing that.  I'm not sure I buy completely into the whole 'honor' thing in golf (it is mixed with a bunch of cultural elitism) but I think it is just true that at least it is a place where there is a clear decorum and there is still a sense of 'doing the right thing' and a corresponding sense of shame for not (qualities lacking in large swaths of the rest of our social and cultural arenas) and I have to believe that the experience of that is a net positive.  Did I mention that I don't like the look of cart paths ;) and I guess if one doesn't want cart paths one needs to want caddies as at least part of the mix (along with trolleys and carrying).

Carl Rogers

Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #62 on: August 31, 2010, 10:48:27 AM »
Memory is a funny thing ...
I grew up in the Boston area, Needham to be exact, was a caddie at Wellesley CC back in the mid to late 60's in my junior high school days.  I was probably not the best caddy in the world, but was big enough to carry 2 bags and I kept my mouth shut.  I do not ever remember ever being paid more than $10.  I was generally treated rather indifferently at best, but I got attracted to and learned the game through that experience.  Watching Shell's Wonderful World of Golf on the tube was the other influence.

I have never played golf with a caddy, but that option at Bandon next February will present itself.  I am in a quandry.  Money is not really an issue as this will be a once in a lifetime trip, I have no other hobbies, our lifestyle is on the frugal side and I have worked pretty hard in my life and am comfortable out in the financial markets.

Any caddie advice at Bandon???  Should the caddie option be a function of weather?

Jason Topp

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Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #63 on: August 31, 2010, 11:02:04 AM »

Any caddie advice at Bandon???  Should the caddie option be a function of weather?

Carl:

Advantages:
1.  If you play 36 a day it is much easier to walk that far with a caddie rather than without one.  I can carry 36 but the cumulative effect of doing it multiple days is very significant.
2.  Caddies make it easier to figure out what shot you should hit.  Not a huge issue on those courses because you can figure most of them out by eye and yardage book.
3.  Most caddies add a lot to the social atmosphere of the group.
4.  It is nice to have a good caddie searching for wayward shots.  Their eye and experience with the course makes a huge difference in the amount of time you spend easter egg hunting.
5.  I got good help at Bandon reading putts - I'm guessing a decent caddie saves you a shot or two a round. 

Disadvantage:

Cost - I'm not sure what the rate is but I paid $100 per round which was a bit higher than the suggested rate.

One compromise would be to take a caddie on Bandon Trails (the toughest walk) and hoof it the rest of the time - or use a caddie afternoons.

Scott Warren

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Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #64 on: August 31, 2010, 11:11:51 AM »
Before this year I had only ever had my dad caddie for me, and he's a 27 handicapper who plays three to six times a year!

At the Renaissance Club in May our forecaddie saved me 3-4 shots on the greens without question.

A couple of times I had completely misread and used his line and made it, but a few others I was iffy about and his confirmation of the line I liked probably gave me the confidence to put a good stroke on it and make it.

If I were a richer man, I'd love to take a caddie more often, but when you're handing over £80-150 to play a decent course, another £50 or so for a caddie just can't be done (from my pocket at least, others it can).

Jason Connor

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Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #65 on: August 31, 2010, 11:16:19 AM »
Regarding the idea that we need to support caddies in order to promote the game, I disagree.  In this day & age how many golfers ever caddied?  I did, but I caddied BECAUSE I liked golf already.  I'd rather loop than work at Burger King like some of my friends in high school.  So I think there is reverse causality here.  Some kids caddy because they'd already taken a liking to golf, not played golf because they caddied.

Also it seems that neighborhoods are less heterogenous than they used to be too.  Meaning many country clubs and certainly resorts aren't in areas where a middle class or lower class kid can just walk or bike to the caddy shack each weekend morning.  And the wealthy kids that surround the club don't need/want to loop.



JNC:  clearly, I'm exaggerating a bit when I say that a double caddie is worthless.  They're OK.  But think about what you're saying:  a player should figure out what club he's going to tee off with before he gets to the tee (what if the wind is swirling and a little different over there?), rake his own bunkers, pull his clubs early, and probably get the pins, too....

Exactly how much of the job of caddying is the player supposed to do for their caddie?

I agree with Shivas here.  If I'm choosing my own club BEFORE I get to the tee, if I'm raking my own bunkers, etc, why not just get a pull cart.  Or better yet one of those power carts that walk along with you.  For $60 a round with caddy, you could quickly cover the cost of a power walking cart.


Single bagger gets to club at 6am, waits until 8am to get out, done at noon: 6 hours time spent making $60= $10/ hour tops.
Double bagger gets to club at 6am, waits for double bag loop at 10am, done at 2pm: 8 hours spent making $120= $15/ hour.

And I think we need to split the conversation between pro and kid caddies.  I agree the pro wants a double loop and can do a good job.  

But even then he would seem not to warrant double the fee.  When I played Oakmont I told my older very experienced caddy (who was doubling with another non-member) that I had an interest in architecture and history and he should feel free to share as much about the course and its history as he desired.  He did that well.  But there were still walks down the fairway when he was no where near me because he was running to my partners ball.  (I didn't hold this against him and paid him very well).

For a kid or young person -- and no one has mentioned the huge unemployment rate for young people right now -- a single seems fine as he gets to know the game and hone his skills.


At the end of the day while I'd like to support caddy programs more (though I rarely play at places that offer caddies) the idea of $50 a round (and typically more) isn't something I am willing to do on a regular basis.    I enjoy playing with a caddy (even a hustling kid), but it'll stay a special treat for me.


« Last Edit: August 31, 2010, 11:19:47 AM by Jason Connor »
We discovered that in good company there is no such thing as a bad golf course.  - James Dodson

Carl Rogers

Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #66 on: August 31, 2010, 11:34:14 AM »
Agreed grow the game and the youngster caddy is part of that. 
Girls...???
However, how does a 10 year old female become a caddy?  Will Mom or Dad ever let her out of the house for that long? 

On a personal note, the biggest difference between my self and year and a half younger sister was that I was given (or just took) a far greater freedom of movement at a much younger age.

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #67 on: August 31, 2010, 12:06:05 PM »
Carl,
Agreed grow the game and the youngster caddy is part of that.  
Girls...???
However, how does a 10 year old female become a caddy?  Will Mom or Dad ever let her out of the house for that long?  

On a personal note, the biggest difference between my self and year and a half younger sister was that I was given (or just took) a far greater freedom of movement at a much younger age.
Carl,  My regular caddy is a young woman who has looped for 7 yrs at Beverly. She does a great job, reads greens if I need help etc. There are some programs where half the loopers are female - Bev is one exampie.   Jack
« Last Edit: August 31, 2010, 08:29:16 PM by Jack Crisham »

Carl Rogers

Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #68 on: August 31, 2010, 01:13:24 PM »
Carl,
Agreed grow the game and the youngster caddy is part of that.  
Girls...???
However, how does a 10 year old female become a caddy?  Will Mom or Dad ever let her out of the house for that long?  

On a personal note, the biggest difference between my self and year and a half younger sister was that I was given (or just took) a far greater freedom of movement at a much younger age.
carl,  My regular caddy is a young woman who has looped for 7 yrs at Beverly. She does agreat job Yreads greens if I need help etc. There are some programs where half the loopers are female - Bev is one exampie.   Jack
I am pleased you and she have had a very good experience for an extended period of time.  But how often is it replicated???  

Doesn't Golf have serious issues when it comes to girls?  A new thread is needed for this subject.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2010, 02:31:38 PM by Carl Rogers »

Matt OBrien

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #69 on: August 31, 2010, 01:42:50 PM »
A guy that is a member at a club that requires caddies should not be worried about the $60 it will cost them to play the course. If that is the case then they should think about changing clubs.
As a former caddy I hate when I hear people complain about having to take a caddy. You will NEVER enjoy the experience of having a caddy if you go into the round with that mind set. I also hate to hear people say that they are the best golfer and that if the caddy is not as good as them then they are useless. Some of the best caddies I have been with dont know which end of the club to hold but they can sure tell you what each blade of grass will do to the ball.
I do understand that there are some half ass caddies out there and they will do a poor job, but just because one caddy is bad does not mean the next guy will suck as well. It is a shame what some people think of caddies and how they are basically the scum of the earth. I will tell you that one of the men sitting on the Forbes top 5 wealthiest men list was once a caddy growing up.
GIVE THE CADDIES A BREAK


Fred Yanni

Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #71 on: August 31, 2010, 02:03:52 PM »
My best experiences with caddies who double carry are when the 2 caddies in the group are very clearly a team and know when to change bags, have one stay back on the tee and one forecaddy, grab the groups putters and drivers etc etc.  In other words they are completely interchangable and a well oiled machine.

I think many concerns regarding carrying double are solved with proper team work among the 2 caddies in the foursome.  When its done well you don't even notice when they switch it up.  

Maybe clubs need to implement some "team caddy" training if they double up bags to make sure everyone is served seemlessly during the round.  

« Last Edit: August 31, 2010, 02:05:33 PM by Fred Yanni »

Fred Yanni

Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #72 on: August 31, 2010, 02:26:50 PM »
A guy that is a member at a club that requires caddies should not be worried about the $60 it will cost them to play the course. If that is the case then they should think about changing clubs.

Matt,

In my experience this assumption is erroneous.  Many clubs memberships are aging and many members paid next to nothing to join clubs 20+ years ago and are now protected by senior dues structures.  These clubs are the center of their social lives.  Many will continue to pay the dues to be with their friends but to assume all the members of a club have the means to plunk down, lets say (8*$60) an additonal  $480+ a month, is incorrect.  Saying that these people should change clubs is wrong, just as its wrong to force them to take a caddy.  

At my club, when I bring a guests I need to have a caddy or forecaddy.  Good policy that keeps play moving.  I am more than happy to take caddies in this case as the club is trying to build its program.  I love taking caddies, I also love carrying.  But its wrong  to assume just becuase I am a member that I have the financial means to take a caddy every time I tee it up.  I would be in favor of a system that says a senior member (not by age but by status at the club) is required to take a caddy 1 or 2x a month or when playing with guests.   But to require a caddy every time is ridiculous.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2010, 02:28:30 PM by Fred Yanni »

Fred Yanni

Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #73 on: August 31, 2010, 02:44:12 PM »
S - To be honest I have seen great doubles caddying a bunch this summer - but at the places you would expect it at...

The issues where I have seen less than enthusiastic caddying this summer has been 100% during the many charity or corporate outings I play in where you can tell the guys are expecting the worst and may not bring their "A" games because they know they are in for a long day.  And to be fair who can blame them they should expect the worst - most of the players in these things play only a few times a year and as Mr. Barkley would say ARE TURRIBULLL.

Of course I do not think the fact that its an outing excuses a poor effort by a caddy.  And I was on the wrong end of several poor efforts this summer.  The sad thing is I would have tipped my caddies great at these things if they made any kind effort as I know their pain.  I am paired with the guy on the other bag he is caddying for...

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #74 on: August 31, 2010, 02:56:42 PM »
I see a lot of great caddies, too, particularly recently.  That doesn't change my opinion of the guys who don't put forth the effort necessary to do the job to the best of their abilities.  I feel very strongly that a great caddie has to hustle.  This is particularly true when he's looping for fast players.  A great caddie is embarrassed to have a player ever wait for him, and he'll hustle and double-time it and do whatever is necessary to make sure that never happens.  Sorry, but that's the way I was taught:  I caddied in a constant state of scared-shitlessness that my player would be at his ball waiting for me.
 

I agree...but i wonder if we are too old school.....

for people who have been using caddies for 30 plus years:  generally speaking, did they hustlle and do a better job then or now?
198 played, only 2 to go!!

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