Dr. B's Course Review OTW - #4 - Golf de Saint-Germain (photos)

[Bart Bradley]

Installment #4.…

Golf de Saint-Germain

Attributed to: Harry Colt 1921

Location:  Saint-Germain-En-Laye, France



What makes it great: 

Designed over a restrictive 110 acre site which is bisected by a rail-line, Saint-Germain makes full use of its opportunities.  The par 3s, in particular, are fun, memorable and interesting.  The bunkering is artistically compelling and quite strategically placed.  The greens have substantial contour and recovery shots around the greens are challenging and full of options.

The clubhouse:




My favorite par 3s:
5th hole par 3 190 yards:





7th hole par 3 180 yards with a very fun, large false front:






The 17th…par 3  155 yards playing over an old quarry site:




What does the architect do to overcome a less than ideal site?

In my experience, the course is the 2nd best example of great golf on a small site.  The course has more bunkers than a typical Colt course.  Ran, in his profile, points out that Colt uses the bunkers and elevated green pads to create interest and challenge.  I was immediately reminded of the pushed up greens I had seen at Coore and Crenshaw’s Chechessee Creek, another relatively flat site transformed into fun and interesting golf.


The approach to the par 5 2nd hole with wonderfully interesting bunkering:



The short par 4 10th hole, 365 yards:



A view from the left side of the 7th green showing the elevated green pad…imagine missing over here and the challenge of the pitch back to the green surface:






What makes it NOT so great?

Despite the success of the routing, the site still feels a bit constricted and cramped in certain places.  Some tree removal and trimming could be performed to open a few holes.  The course lacks the width needed to create substantial options and  strategic angles.  When crossing from one side of the rail-line to the other, the green to tee walks are a bit long.




My visit:  April 2010

My overall rating:  7.0

Rating Trend:  NEUTRAL-SLIGHTLY UPWARD -- this classic Harry Colt course will stand the test of time and has strong stewardship

Previous installments:

Installment 1 -- Fontainbleau  -- France:  http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45366.0/

Installment 2-- Whistling Straits -- Haven, WI :  http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45417.0/

Installment 3 - Grandfather Mountain Springs - Linville, NC:   http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45569.0/

[Ed Oden]

Bart, thanks for another great look at a course most of us will never see.  How is the course tee to green?  The bunkering appears to have lots of variation and doesn't rely on one style.  Any idea whether that was all Colt's original design or if the variation has evolved over time?  Interesting you mention a resemblance to Chechessee.  My initial reaction was that it reminded me some of another C&C design...Bandon Trails.

[Bart Bradley]

Bart, thanks for another great look at a course most of us will never see.  How is the course tee to green?  The bunkering appears to have lots of variation and doesn't rely on one style.  Any idea whether that was all Colt's original design or if the variation has evolved over time?  Interesting you mention a resemblance to Chechessee.  My initial reaction was that it reminded me some of another C&C design...Bandon Trails.

Ed:

The course leadership seems to be interested in restoring/protecting their Colt heritage.  See this interesting article about the people behind the stewardship of St. Germain.

http://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/Article/Golf-de-SaintGermain/1108/Default.aspx

I don't think it is a coincidence that we were both reminded of C&C work.  There is a commonality in style and substance.

Bart

[Chris Buie]

Certainly an attractive course.  Somewhat reminiscent of contemporary archies who incorporate naturalist, rough hewn elements but also sort of brings Bethpage Black to mind with the bunkering in front of the elevated 10th green.  A lot of bunkers going on with this course.  Not knowing as much about the talented Mr. Colt as I would like, I wonder if this course is pretty representative of his work? 
Thanks for the photos Bart.

[Mark McKeever]

Thanks for the photo's Bart!  For some reason I get hints of Merion West when Im looking at these pictures.

Mark

[Dave Falkner]

w/regard to the bunkers that are seemingly only 50-60 yds in front of the tees

I like the look but arent they

a)superfluous to all but the complete hacker?
b) overly punitive for the complete hacker?- I mean the poor sob who hits a tee shot that bad now has to play out of a bunker?

and if a and or b is true  is it good  architecture?

[Sean_A]

Dr B

Thanks for the profile.  Did you get the impression the course could be better (other than the obvious removal of trees)?

Ciao

[Bart Bradley]

Dr B

Thanks for the profile.  Did you get the impression the course could be better (other than the obvious removal of trees)?

Ciao

Sean:

It is a remarkably good course given the property constraints.  I loved the place and think there is a lot to be admired.  Of course, it could use some more width and more angles.   I gave it a 7.0, so is this a trick question?   

Bart

[Bart Bradley]

Anyone else played Saint Germain and Fountainbleau?  If so, how would you rate the two...out of ten rounds, how many at each place?

Bart

[Sean_A]

Dr B

Thanks for the profile.  Did you get the impression the course could be better (other than the obvious removal of trees)?

Ciao

Sean:

It is a remarkably good course given the property constraints.  I loved the place and think there is a lot to be admired.  Of course, it could use some more width and more angles.   I gave it a 7.0, so is this a trick question?   

Bart

Bart

No, the question wasn't meant to trip you up.  I walked the course this summer and must say that I was underwhelmed.  Its a good course, but I didn't get the feeling (and it is only a feeling) that it is any better than the second tier London area courses (say New Zealand and Huntercombe), but much less distinctive - meaning I am not sure it keep my attention as a member.  I guess the property just felt too small, but the trees could be the reason for that.  It can be hard to tell how much space there is when years of tree growth is about.  I spose the bottom line is I would have liked to see what a bit more in your face architecture would be like there; something like Simpson would have done.

Ciao   

[Bart Bradley]

Sean:

The comment about Simpson is interesting.  I asked 2 posts ago for people's opinions regarding St. Germain vs. Fontainbleau (a Simpson).  I slightly perferred Fountainbleau but many people that I respect and admire have told me they think that St. Germain is the better course.  Simpson seems to have had a range of architecture however that is not all "in your face", perhaps the best example is at Morfontaine where the Valliere course is wild but the Grand course is a bit more subtle.  Which Simpson courses were you thinking of when you made that comment?

Bart

[Stuart Hallett]

Sean & Bart,

I know both courses, especially Saint-Germain. I think we all agree that Simpson was more in your face as you put it. The big difference here is a sandy site compared to a flat forest site with heavy soil.
Colt moved an awful lot of soil at Saint-Germain, I studied this over a long period, and the fact that you didn't really notice is probably a positive point for Colt. It's difficult to compare the two courses, however, Morfontaine, Fontainebleau & Chantilly can be easily compared, all on sandy heathland type sites. Simpson seemed to have taken the best sites early on, and Colt later did IMO a wonderful job at Saint-Germain. I agree they need to continue cutting trees, and they do that each winter. The stragegy of the golf course is very subtle and you never get bored. It's certainly a place that grows on you as many french golfers will tell you.

Regards

[Sean_A]

Stuart

Its rather difficult nont to tell Colt pushed a bit of dirt around at St Germain!  Jeepers, the site is flat, yet some of the course isn't - especially around some of the greens. 

Dr B

I was thinking more in terms of Simpson shaping in general.  He got after it more than Colt did, perhaps because he was more interested (than Colt) in creating interesting features with the land as oppossed to bunkering for interest.  If I had to pick one archie who best exemplified what I think is ideal architecture it would be Simpson.

I sure wish I had my sticks when i visited St Germain cuz I was itching to play.

Ciao   

[Adam_Messix]

Saint-Germain is simply fabulous and one of the real hidden gems of the world.  Stuart makes a great point about Colt moving a lot of dirt for that era to build the course.  I think there's a picture of 10 in this thread.  Look at the fairway bunkers on the left and see how Colt basically piled a lot of dirt in the area and carved bunkers out of the hill.  It creates  the appearance of movement on a site that has practically none, with the exception of 17 and 18.   The par 3s here are to be studied as well.

Stuart--

Hope you're doing well.  It's great to see your post, S-G is a great spot. 

[Bart Bradley]

Stuart

Its rather difficult nont to tell Colt pushed a bit of dirt around at St Germain!  Jeepers, the site is flat, yet some of the course isn't - especially around some of the greens. 

Dr B

I was thinking more in terms of Simpson shaping in general.  He got after it more than Colt did, perhaps because he was more interested (than Colt) in creating interesting features with the land as oppossed to bunkering for interest.  If I had to pick one archie who best exemplified what I think is ideal architecture it would be Simpson.

I sure wish I had my sticks when i visited St Germain cuz I was itching to play.

Ciao   

Sean:

I am intrigued by your obvious love of Simpson.  Given your breadth of experience, what are your favorite Simpson courses and holes?

I LOVED Morfontaine and really enjoyed my experiences at Fountainbleau and Cruden Bay....

Bart