[K. Krahenbuhl]

Kyle,

Is this perhaps the exception that proves the rule?  it's a great hole because of the beauty and the wind.....

I think there are a lot of reasons that drop shots can be great holes...

a little uncertainty in the distance to play
the elements
great greens and surrounds
natural beauty

I think they can be more than just a way to get from the previous hole to the next one.  Are they all great - obviously not (one from your home state that I think falls way short is the 12th at Weaver Ridge).  That being said examples of greatness are there for the reasons listed above and more.

[George Pazin]

How much of an elevation drop is necessary to classify it as a "drop shot" par 3?

One could argue that #6 at NGLA is a "drop shot" par 3, as if my memory serves me right, it is slightly downhill.


Jeff F.

Good question - for me personally, there is distinct difference between a drop shot par 3 and a downhill par 3, though I can't really put that in numbers, as I don't have enough experience with that sort of thing. I'd say Pebble's 7th is a drop shot, but several of the others posted are merely downhill. Maybe a 2-3 or more club difference would work as a standard?

-----

Kind of ironic that my only ace came on what could be called a drop shot par 3. It was probably 2 clubs downhill.

In looking at posters' pics, I'd say the Stonehenge hole is moer of what I had in mind. The Red Sky one looks interesting, the Banff one simply too pretty to qualify.

I guess I don't really care for distance control as a measuring stick. And that most certainly is a personal bias, not an objective criterion.

[Andy Troeger]

There are probably hundreds of really good drop shot holes, assuming you are not pre-disposed to disliking them. The only real problem is that they've become so popular that it seems that every course feels the need to have one (or three). Many of the best have already been mentioned, but #16 at Wolf Run, #14 at Pine Valley, #12 at Rock Creek, #3 at Gozzer Ranch, #6 at The Alotian Club, #15 at Black Mesa, and #16 at Paa-Ko Ridge are also ones that I enjoy. Jim Engh has built quite a few on his mountain courses--#17 at Lakota Canyon and #15 at Pradera are among the better ones.

Like many other features of design, I like how it creates a bit of doubt in the mind of the golfer. And lets face it, the views are usually pretty amazing too.

[Jud_T]

George,

My last play would be Ballybunion Cashen.  I'd rather give up the game than have to play that goat track every day......A good question perhaps deserving of it's own thread, if it hasn't been down before.....

[Adrian_Stiff]

Generally I woud say, drop hole par 3's are big favourites with golfers. Anytime I can get them into a routing its good IMO and uphill par 3 holes are a big big no no in my routings unless its to traverse bad land.

[Mike Hendren]

Langford's 12th at Gatlinburg Country Club (now municipal) drops 200 feet.  Bunkering courtesy of Cupp.



Mike

[Jay Cox]

PS:  For anyone who has played this hole, the cart ride can be terrorizing.

Man is that an awful cart path.

[Ben Voelker]

Generally I woud say, drop hole par 3's are big favourites with golfers. Anytime I can get them into a routing its good IMO and uphill par 3 holes are a big big no no in my routings unless its to traverse bad land.

Adrian,

Why are uphill par 3's big no-nos?  It would be nice to see each on a course and there are lots of really good uphill par 3's out there, 13 at Sand Hills come to mind.

I like drop shot par 3's if done right in moderation.  A course with one decent one and one horrible...

http://www.peninsulagolf.org/hole.asp?number=8

http://www.peninsulagolf.org/hole.asp?number=17

[Dan Grossman]

LACC - North #11 would be another good one.


JF

#11 at LACC is so long, that I wouldn't think of it as a drop shot.  I would think that #5 on that course is a better example, IMO.

I like the shorter "drop shot" par 3s better.  I think the challenge is trying to manage downhill distance, potentially wind and a lofted club.  If the par 3 is too long, I think that it generally becomes easier to negotiate as you are hitting a driving shot which you can shape to try to negate wind, if any.  

[Jeff Fortson]

LACC - North #11 would be another good one.


JF

#11 at LACC is so long, that I wouldn't think of it as a drop shot.  I would think that #5 on that course is a better example, IMO.

I like the shorter "drop shot" par 3s better.  I think the challenge is trying to manage downhill distance, potentially wind and a lofted club.  If the par 3 is too long, I think that it generally becomes easier to negotiate as you are hitting a driving shot which you can shape to try to negate wind, if any.  

I agree.  I was just taking it as downhill par 3's.  I would think #5 fits more of a "drop shot" criteria than #11.  To me the term "drop-shot" almost mandates that it be a short shot.


JF

[George Pazin]

I like the shorter "drop shot" par 3s better.  I think the challenge is trying to manage downhill distance, potentially wind and a lofted club.  If the par 3 is too long, I think that it generally becomes easier to negotiate as you are hitting a driving shot which you can shape to try to negate wind, if any.  

Very interesting take, almost the exact opposite of my preference. If I'm gonna have one, I prefer it be pretty long. I guess that makes it more downhill and less drop shot, which fits my bias.

Hadn't really considered the differences in wind for short v long, thanks for that.

[Garland Bayley]

George,

Thank you for the opportunity to show a great drop shot par 3 coming to your TV sets next weekend at the US Am.

Chambers Bay #9 200+ from back tees.




Personally I don't understand why people express an unreasoned objection to "drop shot" par 3s. If there is a par 4 where you drive to the top of a hill and then approach down the hill, some of the same people will call it a great par 4.

The primary reason I hear as objections is the difficulty of choosing a club for the shot. These same people will tell you they really enjoy playing in the wind. Why the club selection difficulties there are not a detriment for them is a mystery to me. Go figure.

Many people will express more fondness for scenic courses over non-scenic ones, but yet a drop shot par 3 which often gives the most scenic of views is objected to. Go figure.

Finally there is the "unified theory about golf course design" originated here http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,17958.0/ and later published I believe in one of Paul Daley's architecture books. As was noted previously:

I like drop-shot par-3's. There is something neat about hitting a shot way up in the air, seeing it hang there for what seems like forever and wondering where it will land.

The Presidio GC in San Francisco has two nice drop shot par-3's.

the drop shot par 3 meets the primary condition of the theory.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Generally I woud say, drop hole par 3's are big favourites with golfers. Anytime I can get them into a routing its good IMO and uphill par 3 holes are a big big no no in my routings unless its to traverse bad land.

Adrian,

Why are uphill par 3's big no-nos?  It would be nice to see each on a course and there are lots of really good uphill par 3's out there, 13 at Sand Hills come to mind.

I like drop shot par 3's if done right in moderation.  A course with one decent one and one horrible...

http://www.peninsulagolf.org/hole.asp?number=8

http://www.peninsulagolf.org/hole.asp?number=17

I think its hard to get a good uphill par 3 hole, the golfer likes to see the result of his effort and you cant do that at an uphill par 3, seeing whats in front of you,the green, the bunkers, the flag, the cup all matter to the framing of the hole.There are degrees of uphill of course where all  those aspects can be seen and sometimes none. When you loose those bits of the combination your quality of hole suffers. By contrast those aspects are more easily found when you play downhill and in general I think you want as many downhill holes as you can get. I have never really seen to many great uphill threes, most are at best very 5/10 but perhaps its possible if you get a superb backdrop.

[Dan Grossman]

Personally I don't understand why people express an unreasoned objection to "drop shot" par 3s.

In my opinion, they are interesting holes, especially when on the shorter side.  Like any feature, when they get too ridiculous, it just becomes goofy golf.  Plus, if they are really, really downhill, it makes the walk really difficult.

[Mike Benham]

[Garland Bayley]

...if they are really, really downhill, it makes the walk really difficult.

Tell me about it! The most difficult walk for me at Chambers Bay is from 9 tee to 9 green. I threatened to have the esteemed Dr. Gray carry me last time I was there.

[Matthew Sander]

How about #6 at ANGC. That back right hole location gives them fits every year. Plus it is a great little pocket of the course for spectators as you can see action on 16 too...

[Tim Leahy]

No. 3 at Olympic Lake is another great drop shot par 3.  I love the delay of time while the ball is in the air on the way to the green on drop shot par 3's or on elevated tee shots. Just adds to the drama.

[Chris_Blakely]

I don't mind them for the most part. However, one that comes to mind is a 150 yard, directly downhill, par 3 at Hunter's Station in Pennsylvania. They way the hole is designed, you either hit the green, OR, you ball is lost in the woods. Extremely little, or no, room for error here. Choosing a club for such a dramatic elevation change can be tough as well. I would also surmise that balls hitting the green here do plenty of damage.

PS:  For anyone who has played this hole, the cart ride can be terrorizing.

That is one of the courses in NW PA that I have not played and wondered if I should give the course a look.  I drove by the course once on the way to one further north.

Chris

[Sean_A]

I can't think of one really good drop shot 3 (probably needs to have at least a 30 foot drop if its a fairly short hole) that I admire and I am not overly keen on the type.  I can accept it as an EASY solution to an elevation problem, however,   However, I don't want to see this type of hole more than once in a round or the 3s of that course will get a bad rap from me.  I think it is easier to build good uphill 3s because they naturally allow a choice of approaching high or low.  

Ciao  

[Kevin_Reilly]

I love the delay of time while the ball is in the air on the way to the green on drop shot par 3's or on elevated tee shots. Just adds to the drama.

That captures the appeal for me...on the tee, you know that a 150-yd shot will play a lot less, so after you hit your wedge you watch and hope until it lands safely on the green.  That is about all that I like about #5 on Olympic-Ocean.

[Steve Lapper]

Though I don't have a picture, easily the most dramatic of this kind would be the 17th at Roko Ki, Dominican Republic. 110yd to a small rocky perch in the Carribean Sea.

[John Foley]

Bristol Harbour # 15 from the upper tee. Very Very cool & difficult hole

Leatherstocking #12

[Tim Martin]

#4 on Westchester CC South is a great drop shot par 3 playing at about 150 yds.

[Garland Bayley]

...
I generally hate them - well, hate is too strong of a word - but I generally find them very ho-hum.
...

What makes any par 3 not "ho-hum"? Par 4s are the meat of golf. They have strategy and execution. Most par 3s only have execution.

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