[Terry Lavin]

We've had a couple Hidden Gem threads, so here's another wrinkle.  I played Exmoor Country Club, in Highland Park, Illinois, which opened for play in 1896, so if it's a hidden gem, it's been hiding in plain sight!  First layout by Tweedie, redo by Ross and restoration by Ron Prichard.  What a gem!  I really didn't object to a single hole, even if two or three were snoozers.  The course has a lot of room, great architectural bones and the club is really going in the right direction with tree removal, bunker work and maintenance meld.  Our own Dave Schmidt recently joined and I saw him on the course.

Love to hear comments about Exmoor or any other hidden in plain sight gems in your neck of the woods.

[Dave_Miller]

We've had a couple Hidden Gem threads, so here's another wrinkle.  I played Exmoor Country Club, in Highland Park, Illinois, which opened for play in 1896, so if it's a hidden gem, it's been hiding in plain sight!  First layout by Tweedie, redo by Ross and restoration by Ron Prichard.  What a gem!  I really didn't object to a single hole, even if two or three were snoozers.  The course has a lot of room, great architectural bones and the club is really going in the right direction with tree removal, bunker work and maintenance meld.  Our own Dave Schmidt recently joined and I saw him on the course.

Love to hear comments about Exmoor or any other hidden in plain sight gems in your neck of the woods.

Shivas joining a private club.  I am shocked

[Mark McKeever]

Ive got a good one to add for NE PA golfers.


I recently took a short drive up to Wilkes Barre to play Wyoming Valley CC (Tillie 1896) and I was pleasantly surprised.  Its a great piece of lant with a lot of good movement to it.  The layout features a fantastic drop shot hole as well!  One of the characteristics I found numerous times was that you cannot see a lot of the bunkers until it was too late.  A lot of they were cut into hills, but the sand was not visible at all.  Speaking of sand, a number of the bunkers were squared off also which I thought was pretty neat.  Greens were pretty slippery too.

Mark

[David Egan]

The Mid-Am qualifier is out there in a couple week. As I recall, Exmoor can be a real test from the tips. Should be interesting to see what the number is. I personally, am rooting for a big one.

[Phil McDade]

Exmoor also hosts the Western Am in two years; a nice run of courses in the Chicago area coming up for this championship after this year's at Skokie:

2011 – North Shore Country Club, Glenview

2012 – Exmoor Country Club, Highland Park

2013 – Olympia Fields Country Club (South Course), Olympia Fields

2014 – The Beverly Country Club, Chicago

[J_ Crisham]

Terry,  Good to hear nice things re: Exmoor. I will be there on the 22. The club championship is that day so I will have to look for Shivas and root him on!  Elgin CC is a great course that gets little fanfare in Chicago.     Jack

[Bradley Anderson]

I have always been amazed at how Exmoor could go so unnoticed. I played there in 2006 and I was blown away by how great it was.

I would even go so far as to ask what does Beverly or Skokie have the Exmoor doesn't?

[Terry Lavin]

I have always been amazed at how Exmoor could go so unnoticed. I played there in 2006 and I was blown away by how great it was.

I would even go so far as to ask what does Beverly or Skokie have the Exmoor doesn't?

Fair question, especially since Prichard is responsible for all three restorations.  I'd venture to say that Beverly has a superior set of par 5's and par 3's and that Skokie's set of par 4's is probably stronger.

But Exmoor has great 3's, 4's and 5's. 

Beverly probably has better land with the elevation changes on the front and the rolling dunes on the back, but let's be honest, it's cut off by an arterial street and stuck between another arterial street and a railroad line, so Exmoor surely has a more pastoral feel and probably another fifty acres, to boot.

I'll simply say that Exmoor, Beverly and Skokie are three great examples of how an older Donald Ross course can be faithfully restored while remaining true to the modern game.  All three are great looking, challenging and fun golf courses.  What more does one want?

[Mark Smolens]

Only an invitation from Shivas to tee it up some time!

[J_ Crisham]

I would even go so far as to ask what does Beverly or Skokie have the Exmoor doesn't?

Well Brad since you asked, for starters we've got Lavin so that 's gotta be worth something,right? Although now that Exmoor has Shivas it's probably a wash.                                                          Jack

[Jud_T]

How much Tweedie, if any, remains?  

[Phil McDade]

Dave:

Do you think the Bev ought to get at least a demerit point or two off its par 5s because they play so similarly?

I agree about the variety of par 3s at Bev, and I actually think more highly of 6 than you -- in part because that elevation change, given any kind of wind, can mess with your head, and club selection. Agree on 17 and 13 -- 13 wasn't quite as terrifying as I anticipated, but has a very fun green, and 17 is just terrific.

But I thought Bev's par 5s all played in a similar manner -- if you can hit the ball a ton, you can reach them in two. They are all very good-to-terrific par 5s, and the front nine pair use that ridge line to great effect. But there is not a lot of risk/reward to any of them. That's become something of a cliche, but shouldn't a well-rounded course provide at least one of those per round in a par 5? (Riffing off of your Rock Creek views on 18, your argument that 18 shouldn't be shortened is informed in part because the course offers other par 5s of that nature.)

[Phil McDade]

I wouldn't say they're monotonous, either -- just that they are all within a similar length (less than 10 percent variation), and require little variation in how to attack them. There's a bit of dogleg-chewing-off with 2 and 18, but you still have to really bust two shots to get home in two on either one (and on 7 and 11 as well). I like how Prichard's new bunkers short of 7 give the longer player pause about going after that green in two, but they don't change the nature of what's needed to get home in two on that hole.

[Terry Lavin]

Shivas,

I'll echo your comments about #8 at Exmoor.  I don't know how I'd denominate it, maybe a semi-Redan or Redanesque, but there are some beguiling features to that hole.  It lacks only the rear bunker from the template according to my observations, but its absence doesn't make the hole any less interesting to me.  You still have the front-right protuberance that invites the sling that will bounce back and left.  You've got the gaping bunker front left and you've got a green with some unbelievably challenging hole locations.  Just a terrific one-shotter and surely one of the very best in Chicago.

[Terry Lavin]

I'll tell you what I really like about Exmoor:  the east-bound holes:  #4,5,7,8,13,16 and 18.  That might be the best set of holes going in a single direction (other than on an out-and-back links type of routing) I can think of.  I think it's the result of two things: the slight incline to the property going east and some really wonderfully-placed greens. 

Your comment about the tilting (downward from east to west) nature of the property is right-on.  I noticed that as soon as I looked back to the club house from the first fairway.  In some odd way, it reminded me of the property for the Wynn casino course in Vegas, since it's overwhelmingly in one direction.  You could wind up with some boring holes if the routing were not done by a skilled architect and I'm guessing you could have some drainage issues as well.  I generally don't like back and forth holes to end a round, but I really did like 17 and 18 at Exmoor.  18 in particular was delightful because the shot into the green is partially hidden, even though it's uphill.  That's a neat trick for an archie to pull off without being overly quirky.  The other great thing, of course, is the view of the imposing clubhouse, which looks a bit like our White House.  Great club, great track.

[Bradley Anderson]

Shivas,

If I remember that hole was an uphill par three about 165 yards? I was able to hit a slight draw on 8 when the pin was in the back left and had a nice birdie there. When I got up on the green and looked back at the tee I realized that the hole does have just enough tilt to it to be a redan, but it is lacking the kick mound on the right, and there were a lot of trees as I recall along the right side.

There was another par three to an elevated green - I think it was 12 or 13? That is a spectacular green with deep bunkers on both sides. I ping ponged that one - which is what those deep bunkers on a skinny green are designed to make you do.

The short number nine with the huge burr oak tree that you can try to hit over to shorten your approach. That's one of the few holes with a strategic tree on it that I have been impressed by, because the ground falls away from the tree and there really is a good reason for playing that shot other than just going for it.

I played on a Monday, I brought my own caddy and had the whole place to myself. It was one of my favorite rounds of golf ever. I rank Exmoor in the top ten in Chicago and that's saying a lot. But truthfully Beverly has a lot of holes with really special terrain that Exmoor lacks, so you gotta give the edge to Beverly. But there are some similarites to those two golf courses.

[Dan Moore]

One of the interesting things about the 8th is the fact it is significantly different than how it it shown on Ross' plan for the course.  The Ross drawing had a large bunker into the base of the hill directly on line with the green maybe 20 yards short, not built into the left side of the green.  The 1930's aerial shows the bunker in today's position. perhaps a bit larger in size, but essentially as it is today.  Raises the question of who was responsible for the hole.  Location and green position per Ross, defining bunker per unknown. 

I also felt the best green on the course was on the par 3 14th which I think is a green rebuilt by Prichard on a hole that was added by Nugent; Nugent also added the 6th and 7th on new land.  Ross's plan completly rerouted the course with many holes in the same corridors, but going in the opposite direction from the original course.  However, a few holes remain from the original course at least in terms of location; I need to reconsult my info, but 18 is one of the originals that remains which is pretty cool when you think about it. 

[PCCraig]

Delete

[Jud_T]

Shiv,

How about a photo thread now that the cat's out of the bag?  And feel free to swing by and raid the wine cellar when your in the hood....

[David Egan]

The Mid-Am qualifier is out there in a couple week. As I recall, Exmoor can be a real test from the tips. Should be interesting to see what the number is. I personally, am rooting for a big one.

I don't know if that'll happen, Dave.  As you know, qualifiers are set up fairly easy to get the field around the course in decent time.  I expect they'll mostly play the green tees on most holes.  I'm sure they'll use the back tees on the par 5s, if for no other reason than to reduce the number of guys waiting in the fairways to try to reach in two and slowing the course down, but other than that, I expect they'll play the up tees.  Plus, I expect the pins to be fairly benign -  again, to speed up play.

I don't know what to expect. I've played in some CDGA events  that were really easy and others that were incredibly hard.  I'm playing my practice round out there tomorrow morning and I'll be playing it from the very tips just in case.  I've been out there dozens of times but, to be honest, I only remember a couple holes.  I'm looking forward to refreshing my memory.

[Dan Moore]

Nugent also added the 6th and 7th on new land.  

Dan, the 6th and 7th greens are in the middle of the property and nowhere near any periphery land.  Do you possibly have them confused with something else?

Yes, I meant 5th and 6th.  The green end of the current sixth was part of the old par 4 5th that went north from east of the 4th green.  The newer land (1970's) is the squareish piece south of where the driving range is located and east of the hospital comprising the two par 3's and first portion of the double dogleg 6th. 

Here is the 1930's aerial. 

[David Egan]

The Mid-Am qualifier is out there in a couple week. As I recall, Exmoor can be a real test from the tips. Should be interesting to see what the number is. I personally, am rooting for a big one.

I don't know if that'll happen, Dave.  As you know, qualifiers are set up fairly easy to get the field around the course in decent time.  I expect they'll mostly play the green tees on most holes.  I'm sure they'll use the back tees on the par 5s, if for no other reason than to reduce the number of guys waiting in the fairways to try to reach in two and slowing the course down, but other than that, I expect they'll play the up tees.  Plus, I expect the pins to be fairly benign -  again, to speed up play.

I was out there this morning and really enjoyed myself.   The course was a lot nicer than I remembered.  Frankly, when I was growing up, it was kind of a ho hum place. But, no more. Anyway, if we play from the very back  tees that I played from today, I'd expect the qualifying score to be 71 or 72.  I think the greens, with some pretty subtle little slopes, will cause some problems.  These are tough greens without some home course knowledge.  Also, I really hope they speed them up as they were excruciatingly slow this morning.

[Jason Goss]

I had the good fortune of working at Exmoor as my first Assistant Superintendent position out of college.  I was there just prior to the most recent renovation through the expansion of the first four greens (I left for California in November of 2002).  I can tell you that when I returned after the completion of the work, I was floored.  The golf course was always very good, but now it is incredible.

[Paul Richards]

Mr. Prichard did a fantastic job here at Exmoor, no doubt.

 

[Jud_T]

He's the man.  Can't say enough about his work at Skokie.  Even at Lakeshore CC he managed to put some lipstick on that pig.  

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