[Ryan Farrow]

A state so rich in private courses, how long will it take for PA to get a great public course?


Please look at this list and tell me you don't feel sorry for these people:


1. Bedford Springs Old Course, Bedford
2. Nemacolin Woodlands (Mystic Rock), Farmington
3. Glen Mills, Glen Mills
4. Olde Stonewall, Ellwood City
5. Hershey (West), Hershey
6. Tom's Run at Chestnut Ridge, Blairsville
7. Wyncote, Oxford
8. Jack Frost National, Blakeslee
9. Hershey Links, Hummelstown
10. Penn National (Founders), Fayetteville
11. Center Valley, Center Valley
12. Lederach, Harleysville
13. Pilgrim's Oak, Peach Bottom
14. Hershey (East), Hershey
15. Woodloch, Hawley

[Kyle Harris]

Have you played Bedford? I think it's in the rightful place at #1. Some drop off after on that list though with a few noteworthy exceptions.

You liked Jeffersonville, if I recall correctly?

[John Moore II]

Beyond Bethpage (Black) the same can be said for New York as well. Of course you have to be willing to spend 6 hours of your day to play Bethpage apparently. It seems that there are very few great public courses in the Northeast US in general.

[Ronald Montesano]

Getting a great anything is the sum of a number of factors, rather than a single, mighty factor (e.g., Donald Trump...mighty yet to date)

How many states have more than one great public course?  North Carolina has Pinehurst #2...what does it have beyond that, that we would consider truly great?  I would consider the other Pines as very good, Tobacco Road as very good, but not great.

Oregon is a freak state, currently.  S.C. has Kiawah and Harbour Town, but they are so unaffordable as to hardly be considered public.

Bethpage Black is also a freak, affordable for residents of NY (believe it or not, I have yet to take advantage of that, although Kevin Lynch has been on it a handful of times.)

Give me your list of truly great public courses.  We'll then see how each state shakes out.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I was surprised the recently public Berkleigh didn't make Passov's PA list. Perhaps he and  his raters don't know about the change. Anyone have his email?

[Ryan Farrow]

John, you may be right......

I guess I found it strange after spending 5 years in Arizona, where most of the best courses are public.  The northeast is a different animal. Too much old money, and not enough tourism?


Kyle, Jeffersonville was really good, but we only played how many holes? Paxon Hollow was great but the property was a little too much to deal with. Both better than Bedford Springs in my opinion which has about 5 great holes and 13 bad ones. Don't ask me how that makes it the best public course in PA.

[PThomas]

arent Glen Mills and Lederach pretty darn good??

[Dan Herrmann]

Ryan,
Other than the famous ultra-high end publics like Bandon, Pinehurst, etc...  What state would have "great" public golf?

For example, the USGA Publinx was played in 1990 (ish) at Eastmoreland in Portland, OR.  Eastmoreland is a very fine golf course, but it's hardly great, and it's perhaps the best public in Oregon other than the obvious (Bandon's courses).

Or - what's the are the great publics in New York north of the Rockland/Westchester county line (upstate)?  
---------------------------
Paul,
Glen Mills and Lederach are very, very good.  I'll let others more knowledgeable speak to their "greatness".

[Mark McKeever]

I would add Berkleigh and Downingtown CC to the list.

Mark

[Kyle Harris]

John, you may be right......

I guess I found it strange after spending 5 years in Arizona, where most of the best courses are public.  The northeast is a different animal. Too much old money, and not enough tourism?


Kyle, Jeffersonville was really good, but we only played how many holes? Paxon Hollow was great but the property was a little too much to deal with. Both better than Bedford Springs in my opinion which has about 5 great holes and 13 bad ones. Don't ask me how that makes it the best public course in PA.

Good. You're making my point for me.

Look at the list, and then dig around a bit and you may have really good to great elsewhere. I thought we got to 16 at Jeff, which is a pity because 18 is one of the better Par 5s you could play.

I've not played Bedford, so I'll have to look.

[Ryan Farrow]

One mans very good is another mans great. All I'm saying is, there's not a course better than Bedford Springs, open to the public......

[Mark McKeever]

Have you played Bedford? I think it's in the rightful place at #1. Some drop off after on that list though with a few noteworthy exceptions.

You liked Jeffersonville, if I recall correctly?

I think Jeffersonville is a great layout along with Paxon Hollow.  Both courses benefitted immensely from their respective restorations.

Mark

[Ryan Farrow]

Where's the Tobacco Road, Caledonia, Rustic Canyon, Southern Dunes, Atlantic City, Pine Needles, Greenbriar's of PA?

[Ronald Montesano]

Great as compared to other publics or great as compared to all courses?

[Mark McKeever]

Where's the Tobacco Road, Caledonia, Rustic Canyon, Southern Dunes, Atlantic City, Pine Needles, Greenbriar's of PA?

Id say that's Glen Mills.

Mark

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Here is GW's List:

Pennsylvania
1. Bedford Springs Resort, Bedford (c)
2. Nemacolin Woodlands Resort (Mystic Rock), Farmington (m)
3. Olde Stonewall, Ellwood City (m)
4. GC at Glen Mills, Glen Mills (m)
5. Wyncote, Oxford (m)
6. Hershey CC (West), Hershey (c)
7. Tom’s Run, Blairsville (m)*
8. Hershey Links, Hummelstown (m)
9. Jack Frost National, Blakeslee (m)*
10. Raven’s Claw, Pottstown (m)

GD rates Mystic Rock & Glen Mills ahead of some good privates in their best in state:

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/100-greatest-golf-courses

[Mike Cirba]

Ryan,

With the exception of Greenbriar, you might as well ask"where's the sand in PA?".

[Ryan Farrow]

Here is GW's List:

Pennsylvania
1. Bedford Springs Resort, Bedford (c)
2. Nemacolin Woodlands Resort (Mystic Rock), Farmington (m)
3. Olde Stonewall, Ellwood City (m)
4. GC at Glen Mills, Glen Mills (m)
5. Wyncote, Oxford (m)
6. Hershey CC (West), Hershey (c)
7. Tom’s Run, Blairsville (m)*
8. Hershey Links, Hummelstown (m)
9. Jack Frost National, Blakeslee (m)*
10. Raven’s Claw, Pottstown (m)

GD rates Mystic Rock & Glen Mills ahead of some good privates in their best in state:

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/100-greatest-golf-courses

Steve, that Golf Digest list has Totteridge ahead of Fox Chapel which is at 15 !!!!!!

Mike, are you saying the courses I listed are only good because they are on sand, which isn't even the case? PA has some great land. Plenty good enough to build the Oakmont's and Merions of the world....... and there's nothing special about either one of those properties.

[mike_malone]

 If none of the present ones are great then I would say "not in my lifetime" which is not the same as Ryan's lifetime.

[TEPaul]

Are you people joking?

Don't you follow this website?

It's Cobbs Creek, Man---Cobbs Creek. Have any of you actually studied it; analyzed it? It's got some of the most sophisticated architectural bones and genes there are. Just consider who its architects were and what they have in their architectural inventory. My goodness, how can it get more impressive than that?

[Mike Cirba]

No, but it sure helps...

That, and 1990-2008 development monies before the bust.   Most publics in pa were built for much less ambitious purposes.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Ryan,

GD raters can never be explained. I'm not a rater but I wouldn't rate Glen Mills higher than Manny's, for example.

[John Moore II]

Ryan,
Other than the famous ultra-high end publics like Bandon, Pinehurst, etc...  What state would have "great" public golf?

Well, taking a quick look at a list I made from the Golf Digest Top 100 Public, California has 9 courses on the list, Oregon 5 (highly likely to go up to 6 or at least a new 5th), South Carolina has 11 courses, North Carolina has 5, Hawaii has 7, Michigan has 5 and Florida has 5. Pennsylvania has 1, Nemacolin Woodlands. While the other states might not have a truly 'great' course, they certainly have a good volume of very good courses.

[mike_malone]

 If Glen Mills took my idea to switch the fairways of #11 and #17 I'm sure it would become a great course. The new shot to #17 green from the present #11 fairway would the best on the course.

[Michael Huber]

Well, taking a quick look at a list I made from the Golf Digest Top 100 Public, California has 9 courses on the list, Oregon 5 (highly likely to go up to 6 or at least a new 5th), South Carolina has 11 courses, North Carolina has 5, Hawaii has 7, Michigan has 5 and Florida has 5. Pennsylvania has 1, Nemacolin Woodlands. While the other states might not have a truly 'great' course, they certainly have a good volume of very good courses.

John,
who is going to be traveling on vacation to Pittsburgh?  How about Philly (other than the history buffs)?  With the exception of Michigan and oregon, those states have warm weather and chalk full of resorts.  I just don't see anyone traveling for a week to PA to spend $200 a round on courses. 


I'm also of the opinion that there really are not that many great pieces of land to build golf courses in and around Pittsburgh.

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