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Chris_Clouser

Re: Educate me on golf in England
« Reply #50 on: August 05, 2010, 04:23:06 PM »
If I get to choose and golf were the primary consideration, when I retire it will be to some village equidistant between West Sussex and Rye.  I would then just travel around England when I felt the need to see something different. 

Scott Warren

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Re: Educate me on golf in England
« Reply #51 on: August 05, 2010, 04:35:31 PM »
Chris,

That's a bloody attractive dream. If I lived between Rye and Pulborough and had access to both I can't imagine I'd feel the need to go anywhere else all that often.

Paul_Turner

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Re: Educate me on golf in England
« Reply #52 on: August 05, 2010, 08:28:10 PM »
For James Boon's sake I will now offer the opinion of a Frenchman!

My wife is English, she grew up in the village next to Lytham St. Annes and her family moved to Cornwall when she was a teenager. We honeymooned in Scotland; at the time the price was reasonable. We stayed and played the great resorts: Glenaeagles, TOC, Dornoch and Turnberry; TOC was a mere 25 pounds back then. As someone whose only connection to what was available over there was Golf Digest and Golf Magazine; I knew about the famous courses, mostly because they advertised and Scotland did a good job of promoting what was available. I sent away to the Scottish Tourism Board and got maps and brochures detailing where to go play and stay. When we visited her parents in Cornwall at the tail end of the trip though we played the Nicklaus course at St. Mellions with St. Enodoc and Perranporth just a short drive away! We just didn't have the resources of golfclubatlas or the Confidential Guide to point us in the right direction in those days.

I spent 6 months in Southhampton in 1989 while my wife was selling her house there. Although we diid play Stoneham, we confined our golf to the municipal course there for the most part. Although I suspected Hayling Island was something special we never did get a chance to play there. Little did I know that within spitting distance were the 4 very good courses in Bournemouth: Parkstone, Broadstone, Ferndown and The Isle of Purbeck. We did spend a month each touring Ireland and Scotland, playing the best they had to offer; prices were still reasonable back then. I don't even recall seeing a Perry Tour bus! But where to play there was quite obvious and playing the best was an attainable goal.

It would appear that the English are quite happy with the relative obscurity of their courses; but they still roll out the welcome mat for anybody who takes the time to write a polite letter. The Pro will not have to put on a mask when taking your green fees. The only drawbacks are that you will be relagated to playing weekdays only; all the better to play the tourist and soak in the numerous cultural offerings on the weekends. You will also probably have to play alone; during our 3 week trip several years ago we played 12 rounds and were never paired with a local in any of them. Sounds like a very good problem to have though.



Pete

The book you needed in the 1980s was the GREAT AA guide.  It was the guide to have in the 1970s and 1980s with a top 50 course review section by different journalists, plus it highlighted the best courses in each area with green text and it hardly ever missed the mark. I know Tom Doak used it as his bible during his first trip over.  Of course it's superseded now and missed a few gems but I still reach for it regularly.

Re English Courses:

For some players, I guess the only drawback of the average classic (1900-WW2) English course is that they're short in comparison with their classic American cousins.  They're nearly always far short of 7000 yds, typically 6500 yds or less from the back tees and hardly ever have a par 5 above 550yds.... so if one of your check boxes is a "true" par 5 then you'll have a bit of a let down.

Also, if you're a big fan of wild American greens in the Maxwell, Mackenzie and Ross style, you won't find much of that ilk in England.  I sometimes wonder if Mackenzie's super wild  Sitwell Park greens frightened everyone off!  I get the impression from Darwin's writing that there was a bit of a backlash (started by him?) against wild greens in England.  Whereas America embraced the wild(er) green.

But it doesn't matter, the courses stand up to any.


« Last Edit: August 05, 2010, 08:36:02 PM by Paul_Turner »
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Mac Plumart

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Re: Educate me on golf in England
« Reply #53 on: August 05, 2010, 08:32:58 PM »
Paul...

I think what you said here, "the courses stand up to any", is the bottom line.

Who cares if they are 7,000 yards, if they are fun to play and a challenge?

And if they don't have crazy greens and are shorter than some other course, that would lead me to believe they introduce some other aspects of the game in their design.  Would I be wrong?

Frankly, this has been a great thread and has really got me fired up to check some of these courses out.

Thanks guys!
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Kevin Pallier

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Re: Educate me on golf in England
« Reply #54 on: August 06, 2010, 04:18:21 AM »
I cannot answer for Ireland as I've never been there

Mark

What ? You live that close and have never gone across the Irish Sea to play golf in Ireland. Who would have thought :D

Andrew Mitchell

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Re: Educate me on golf in England
« Reply #55 on: August 06, 2010, 05:14:32 AM »
I cannot answer for Ireland as I've never been there

Mark

What ? You live that close and have never gone across the Irish Sea to play golf in Ireland. Who would have thought :D

Kevin

Why go to Ireland when there's so much great golf in England  ;)
2014 to date: not actually played anywhere yet!
Still to come: Hollins Hall; Ripon City; Shipley; Perranporth; St Enodoc

Mark Chaplin

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Re: Educate me on golf in England
« Reply #56 on: August 06, 2010, 05:16:14 AM »
I've been to Oz five times and yet the first time I went over the water was for 6 hours last year to make a welfare visit on one of my staff who lives in Ulster!

I'm lucky to be within a 90 minute drive or train journey to some pretty special places so have never made the trip. With mates from Deal who are members at Ballybunion, Lahinch and RCD amongst others I should really make the effort.
Cave Nil Vino

Jamie Barber

Re: Educate me on golf in England
« Reply #57 on: August 06, 2010, 05:59:38 AM »
Chappers - you NEED to play RCD. The view from the rise in front of the 9th tee is magical

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Educate me on golf in England
« Reply #58 on: August 06, 2010, 06:32:45 AM »


Why go to Ireland when there's so much great golf in England but then why go to England when there's so much great golf in Scotland.

No, you must go Ireland and enjoy RCD. I spent many a year at Slieve Donard Hotel in Newcastle ans walked up the Mountains of Mourne swimming in the cool mountin streams way back in my Teen years. I am certain you will enjoy the course. Then head back to Gods country to the Home of Golf.

Melvyn 

Kevin Pallier

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Re: Educate me on golf in England
« Reply #59 on: August 07, 2010, 12:52:26 AM »
With mates from Deal who are members at Ballybunion, Lahinch and RCD amongst others I should really make the effort.

Mark

Those 3 alone are worth a trip.....me thinks you should make an effort ;)

Cristian

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Re: Educate me on golf in England
« Reply #60 on: August 07, 2010, 06:13:48 AM »
Mac,

Most of the names that need to be named (for the record, it's "St Enodoc" - I think we were 0 for 4 on trying to spell that one!) have been named.

Here is an idea of what people are talking about when they say how amazing the London Heathlands are.

Excuse the rudimentary map - I am at work and MS Paint is the best I have at my disposal.

Woking is 20 miles from central London and there are express trains that cover the journey in 20mins.

On this map are 17 of the GB&I Top 100 as well as 3-4 others that are well, well worth playing.

All this less than 30mins from one of the world's greatest cities and with very good weather for golf (despite what many people say).

Mac,


Scott's map is great. These are the courses one should focus on when visiting England . Especially when coming all the way from the US. Except for the Wisley (and Queenwood?) all these courses are Heathland gem's.

Although the links courses in England are brilliant, one can also find great links golf in Ireland and Scotland, (on average probably even slightly better) presuming at one point one would make a trip to either in one's golfing life anyway. Not going to England means missing out on Heathland golf which is an absolute must to be experienced in one's golfing life. And if you have you will come back for more! Inland charm heathland colours and F&F conditions year round, it is brilliant and underestimated/undervalued in the rankings if you ask me.

I think because of the absence of links courses, Americans tend to choose Ireland or Scotland, which is fine, but on a repeat visit England should be on the itinerary every time if you ask me.

Cristian
(not french, but dutch, so that's another nationality chipping in.)

Mac Plumart

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Re: Educate me on golf in England
« Reply #61 on: August 07, 2010, 07:51:54 AM »
Cristian,

excellent post.  I will bear it in mind.  I am seriously contemplating a trip to Scotland next year followed by a trip to England a few months later.  I think your point about having to see heathlands courses to get a full golf education is spot on.

Thanks,
Mac
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Niall C

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Re: Educate me on golf in England
« Reply #62 on: August 07, 2010, 09:48:42 AM »
As someone who has played golf in Scotland and Ireland 10+ times, I had never played golf in England until we decided to correct that two years ago.  We played all the British Open courses, plus some around London.  We enjoyed our trip very much, but I have to disagree with whoever said that the golf in England was as good as Scotland and Ireland.  Close, perhaps, but not as good.
Having said that, playing Sunningdale Old and New in the same day is about as good a golf experience as I've ever had.  Non-links golf doesn't get any better.
Now off in a few days for Ireland again.  If they could only do something about those Irish roads . . . .
Jim,

I would suggest that your mistake was to play the Open rota courses and a few of the London courses.  The glory of English golf is the variety.  Sometimes (frequently) it pays to move away from the very biggest names.

Mark

Excellent point, I think you could say the same thing about Scotland, Ireland and probabaly Wales. There are so many other good golf courses out there that don't come on the radar of even a site like this. As an example someone else on this thread mentioned Silloth and then said something to the effect that there wasn't anything else around worth playing. That simple statement ignores Workington, Seascale, Penrith even and if you allowed me a bit of poetic licence to include the north of England in Scotland I would say Carlisle would easily be in my top 5 Scottish inland courses.

DT

The vast majority of clubs in the UK are members clubs and a very high percentage of their income comes from members subs. It is only a small percentage which have visitor income as a significant percentage of their income. Of that visitor income I think the majority of it comes from UK golfers rather than overseas golfers. I'm saying that all with out the relevant facts and figures to hand but fairly sure thats correct.

Niall

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