[Joel_Stewart]

I've watched a little bit of the ladies Open the last two days and Royal Birkdale seems very impressive.

I have not played it and Ran has not written a profile.  Just wanted to get some thoughts on it.

They do have a fairly good web site,

http://www.royalbirkdale.com/

which also contains a section on "flora and fauna" discussing all of the plants and animals on the property which is something I haven't seen.

http://www.royalbirkdale.com/ff_intro.asp?id=12

[Steve Kline]

This was my dad's favorite course of a our three trips to Scotland/England. He liked how the holes were down in the dunes and you felt isolated from everything else. I think he also liked how the holes were framed by the dunes (probably because he has very bad eyesight).

I don't recall much about the course. I can't remember a single hole standing out, but I have this problem with links golf in general (even on the good courses).

[Brent Hutto]

I played there about a year before the last men's Open and loved it.

Birkdale is links golf perfected and polished. By that I mean it has all the essential features of links golf: wind, ball-gathering bunkers, the need to play the bounce and run of the ball in planning approach shots, probably the finest turf I've ever played on, sufficient width combined with rather punishing rough in places. But the non-essential features have largely been polished away over decades of revision and fine-tuning for major competitions. There are very few blind shots, no real quirky features and while the greens are large and interestingly situated they tend to be either flat or with a simple pitch from back to front. And each hole tends to play within rather than across the lovely dunes.

So from the perspective most usual on this forum Royal Birkdale lacks these qualities like blindness and quirk. But as a club its members intend to be a fine stroke-play test for the best men and women in the world it quite reasonably removes those elements thereby placing the course just about beyond criticism from that perspective. And it is a load of fun to play, from the proper tees, for even a double-digit handicapper. That's what I mean by "perfected".

Aside from the awesome turf, its best feature in my opinion is the bunkering. I've never played a course where the field of attraction exerted by bunkers on a passing golf ball extends so far toward the line of play. And when there's a bit of wind about (15-18mph on the morning I played) and the ground is firm one absolutely must play shots that flirt with those open arms extended by many of the bunkers near or short of the greens.

[Mike Policano]

Birkdale is a fabulous course. I played there last month on a trip that included Sunningdale, Walton Heath, Belfry, Lytham &St.Anne's, Liverpool and Birkdale. Birkdale was my favorite followed by Sunningdale. Birkdale has marvelous strategy off the tee. The fours and fives have fairways that twist and turn complimented by excellent bunkering.

The greens are vary fair and well bunkered and exposed to the wind. A fun and challenging course to play. An excellent championship test.

Cheerx

[Joel_Stewart]

Interesting it being more green than other courses in the rota.  Why is that?

[Mark Chaplin]

The west coast gets more than the east. Troon, Lytham and Hoylake are all likely to be pretty green at the moment

[Mike Policano]

Five weeks ago it was as brown as it could be. The area got some rain starting four weeks ago that greened up the courses in Northern England and Scotland.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

My favourite links course anywhere.
I have said for yeras that it is somewhat underated on this site, probably because of its lack of quirk, and perhaps because it plays less like the "true" links of St Andrews.
The driving lines are superb, statring right out of the gate at number one...which could be the hardest starting hole on golf.
It's selection of par threes rivals any links course in the world, with the superb 12th nestled in he dunes ben the finest.
My one critism is the poor job of reworking the 17th green, which does not fit the rest of the course.
Birkdales fairways have more level lies than is usual for a course on The Open rotation, which is why it is so popular amongst the tour players.
Great example of towering dunes, great clubhouse and a wonderful neighbour in Hillside cross the fence.

[Brent Hutto]

If the fairways at Royal Birkdale had the small-scale rumples like I've seen at Deal, Princes and Sandwich it might be the ideal links course. The rather smooth and flat fairway lies are about the only thing I'd hold up as a negative about the course.

[Tim Nugent]

I recall reading that the fairways at Birkdale (the 1st links course I ver played) were filled and graded because they were located in the Dune Slacks (valleys between the dunes) which were nturally wet and had poor dranage.

I've often wondered if the isolation one feels playing through the Dune riidges like at Birkdale rather than over them as with other links, gave rise to the use of the permeter mounds employed with many Modern designs.

[Joel_Stewart]

Hard to believe it was 7 years ago that I wrote this.  I'm looking forward to seeing Birkdale again. Does anyone know if they've made any changes to the course to host this Open?

[Mark Pearce]

Interesting takes on this thread.  For me Birkdale was by some distance the most disappointing of the Open rota courses that I have played.  To have such wonderful dunes and then route an almost entirely flat course between them almost seemed a crime.  Lytham gets knocked for over-bunkering but, in my book, makes much, much better use of its rather more limited terrain than Birkdale.  I would take Troon, Lytham or evemn pre-Trump Turnberry over Birkdale in a flash.

[Mark Chaplin]

Motorways between the dunes. The reason pros and good players like Royal Birkdale is simple, hit the ball down the fairway and it bounces straight and ends up where you want it to. That's lovely but a little degree of uncertainty is what makes links golf so great.

[Adam Lawrence]

Yes, I'm with the two Marks. I told Martin Hawtree I thought his much criticised 17th was actually the best green on the golf course.


The first is a great hole, but that's as good as it gets.

[Jon Wiggett]

I am always surprised how the British GCAers give Birkdale a bashing on here. It does not have much in the way of quirk but it does have great bunkering and excellent green complexes in general. The first is probably the best opening hole on any course in Europe and the first four are the best opening set on the rota with the last four possibly the best finish on with the possible exception of TOC. A world class set of par threes in both distance, direction and shot requirement. Routing is superb with holes changing direction, good mixture within the round. Infact there is not a bad hole out there. On top of that it is one of the best courses for spectators with the dunes giving great views of play often on several holes.


Yes, it would be nice to see a little more movement on the fairways but this is the only negative I can find.


Mark P,


much of the dunes that Birkdale plays through are too big to play over thus the present routing. If you can ever force yourself to return when playing the third take a look at the dune on the left about 100 yards short of the green and you will see a marker post from a previous routing that was abandoned because it was too hilly to walk.


Jon

[Sean_A]

Birkdale reminds me of Porthcawl in a way.  Its a very modern design, but when compared with the best of the newer modern links, I don't think Birkdale stands up to comparison in terms of interest or variety.  I spose I still think its a great course, though not a terribly engaging design IMO. 

Adam

I am with you, the 17th was easily the best green on the course.  So much for attempting to inject variety into the design.

Ciao

[Tommy Williamsen]

I really liked Birkdale on my one and only time ten years ago. I actually liked that we played through the dunes. It was a nice change of pace. Some of the corridors were pretty wide but most rewarded accuracy over brute strength.

[David Davis]

I'm very interested to read the opinions on this thread as well. I'm definitely with Adam & the two Marks. Birkdale is looked upon as the best course in England by many and it was definitely the most disappointing of the Open rota courses for me, though I've not played Princes. I can't believe that they flattened all that wonderful links land to create the fairways, flat lies every where, greens of course nicely put into amphitheaters tucked into the dunes. Almost reminded me of creating the effect of containment mounding. Sure it looks cool but it's far too unnatural for a links. Fun yes, challenging yes but way down my list of favorite links courses. In England, I'd much rather play, Deal, Royal St. Georges, Rye, Brancaster, Liverpool, Lytham and the list goes on.


It just goes against what I truly love about links golf and makes it more modern parkland golf for me. That being said there are a couple solid par 3's. (personal pat on the back, one of my best rounds ever there and the first time and last time I've ever birdied all par 5's) That was fun but not enough to win me over in terms of architecture.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I sis firmly on the other side of the fence and love Royal Birkdale.
Perhaps it is the lack of quirk , but the quality of the par fours is top notch
The par three 12 th one if the best on the  planet and to my it is the " fairest" of the courses on the rota, whatever that means.
Again probably lack of quirk.
The opening three holes are real testers out if the gate and that opening tee shot one of the toughest anywhere.
The course doesn't get a lot of love from links purists I agree, but to me it is just a very very good test of golf that has reliably provided good Open Champions.

[David Davis]

I sis firmly on the other side of the fence and love Royal Birkdale.
Perhaps it is the lack of quirk , but the quality of the par fours is top notch
The par three 12 th one if the best on the  planet and to my it is the " fairest" of the courses on the rota, whatever that means.
Again probably lack of quirk.
The opening three holes are real testers out if the gate and that opening tee shot one of the toughest anywhere.
The course doesn't get a lot of love from links purists I agree, but to me it is just a very very good test of golf that has reliably provided good Open Champions.

Michael, appreciate your opinion here as well, I'm guessing you are a very good player. Birkdale is certainly a stern test when the wind is us from the tips now doubt and to that it's far more fair in terms of bounces and flat lies than traditional links courses. Have you ever played Noordwijkse? (my home course) I would guess you would really like it given what a stern test it is. I may be wrong.

[Josh Stevens]

To be fair to Birkdale, but did they have a choice other than to route holes down the dune corridors?  These are big dunes, would it actually be possible to go up and over many of them without it seeming too hilly?

[Mark Pearce]

The dunes are no bigger than those at Royal Hague, Portrush, Portstewart or Newcastle, NSW, all of which have far superior routings.  I simply don't accept that a more interesting routing wasn't possible.

[Ally Mcintosh]

I haven't played Birkdale but I know that every hole routed through a dune valley would annoy me slightly.


That said, dune valley routings don't need to go hand in hand with flat ground. Are there really no micro-rumples through the holes? And if not, are people sure that the ground was flattened deliberately? How does it compare with Hillside?


It also doesn't mean that bunker placement, strategy and interesting holes aren't a strong feature of the course - it sounds like they are from the Birkdale lovers.


I just read a detailed course review in The Irish Times yesterday of Hawtree's "new" Doonbeg - it sounds like most of the routing is fairly intact (although there are a couple of completely new holes) but almost everything else has been changed.... The basis of the article lauded the removal of all the things most on this website hold dear - quirk, visibility, rough edges, hidden transitions etc... It reminded me yet again that the majority look for very different things in their golf courses than those on GCA do...


I think they are wrong but there you go... It's easy to understand why Birkdale is so loved: the feeling of big dunes but without any GCA style quirk.

[Jon Wiggett]

Ally,


the course used to be routed over some of the dunes in the dim and distant past but this was abandoned as it was thought too severe. I have spent quite a lot of time at Birkdale and had the opportunity to look around. The fairways are very flat for a links and as I have already stated it would be nice if there was some movement introduced but this flatness is natural IMO not due to grading as some on here would have you think. If a person takes the time to look around the surrounding and undeveloped dunes it is noticeable how most of the larger valley between the dunes capable of taking a hole are very flat and often quite boggy. I suspect that the routing has been drained and left due to this.


Also, it is not that the fairways are pan flat. There is some movement on most of them but not the sudden rounded type you see at many links.


Mark,


I have not played Royal Hague but the routings at Portrush and Portstewart do not actually go OVER any of the large dunes as you seem to want the routing at Birkdale to do. Newcastle, NSW dune's are certainly not close in character to those at Birkdale being less steep, more rounded and easier to walk. It is easy to criticise on the back of just one visit but I am afraid for me your complaints and comparisons just do not stack up.


Jon

[Adam Lawrence]

It isn't just a question of the course being routed through the dune valleys. The reason for the shortage of fairway movement (I agree with Jon, there's some, but not much) is that the construction work was done in a pretty blunt instrument kind of way. Those fairways have been bulldozed, and not very subtly. The hand of man is too obvious at Birkdale, it lacks the naturalness that is the heart of links golf.

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