[Steve Lang]

  Pete, you didn't like the CB stress test walks, like between 3 green and 4 tee?

On-topic.. last of interview

"Where will you play after this week's Senior Open and the U.S. Amateur at Chambers Bay?
I'll play the Mid-Amateur and the Senior Amateur. So I have plenty of golf"

if that isn't polished evasion I don't know what is.. did one expect him to say he's going to Bandon?

? british-style ?  what really is that to the average golf.com reader? same as british cuisine? or scottish tandoori?

[Pete_Pittock]

Steve,
There's that, but for me there are significant stress tests at Bandon. Plus I didn't like the similarity of the par 5s 4 & 13, then the similarities of the folloowing 4s - 5 & 14. Plus the possible strong prevailing winds on the drop shot 9th. If I went to watch the tournaments the only hole I'd watch is #12.

I'd give better than even odds that Buddy has been to Bandon, maybe for the Mid-Am.

[Garland Bayley]

Have to admit that after playing a par 5 uphill like 4 or 13, it really sucks to have to turn around and play a par 4 downhill like 5 and 14.
 

[Adam Clayman]

Did anyone ask Jay about these walks that seem excessive for a walking only course?

[Garland Bayley]

Did anyone ask Jay about these walks that seem excessive for a walking only course?

I don't recall the topic being mentioned at the GCA event there. However, since no one had seen the course when we talked with Jay before we played, no one would have known about the walks. I did revisit the course on Google Earth recently looking at this issue, and the thing that I noticed there was that the majority of the time the average player walks past all the back tees to get to his tees, giving him an average walk of about 120 yards, where the three long walks are about twice that in length and add to the average.

[Tim Bert]

I will say that Chambers is the hardest to walk, walking only course I have ever played. I'll preface that by saying that I don't think it is too hard of a walk and I would have walked it even if carts had been available. Still, I was shocked how severe some of those hikes were for a course that won't allow carts.

[Garland Bayley]

I will say that Chambers is the hardest to walk, walking only course I have ever played. I'll preface that by saying that I don't think it is too hard of a walk and I would have walked it even if carts had been available. Still, I was shocked how severe some of those hikes were for a course that won't allow carts.

What severe hikes are you referring too?

[Tim Bert]

Garland you have played the course so you are well familiar with the hikes and you already know whether or not you agree with me. But I will humor you. There are a good many spots where the terrain is very steep, surprisingly so for a Mandatory walking course which was the point of my post. Walking up #4 is a difficult march.  The approach to #7 is a tough climb, not long after the previously mentioned walk. Seems like #12 / #13 make up a good bit of uphill ground as well.

As I said, it isn't so tough that it isn't manageable but it is what I would consider very tough for a walking only golf course.  Do you disagree?

[Andy Troeger]

I didn't think Chambers Bay was a tough walk at all--going around The Dunes Club in Michigan would definitely at least as difficult. Maybe I enjoyed them, but I didn't really notice the long walks until somebody else posted about them in a previous thread.

[RJ_Daley]

Well, I didn't play CB, only walked the course a few weeks before it opened.  I don't think it seemed too hard of a walk, compared to the other course coming on line in this whole US open/am rota hype of new courses, Erin Hills.  

I'm not sure I'd really take too much of what Marucci says as gospel.  Yes, he has a fine credential of a highly skilled and travelled am player, but what can he really say about GCA other than he plays a lot of great courses?  So does Scott Hoch for that matter.  I'll take Scott in a duel with Mariucci and give strokes.  

I watched some of Whistling being built, and I'd have to say that it lines up more with CB in construction process and methods than anything out at Bandon.  In my mind, even mentioning CB in the same breath as Bandon is odd.  

I'll consider CB, Whistling and Irish, and Arcadia Bluffs much the same in process, (I haven't seen Bayonne and LibertyNat or Twisted Dunes and many others)  But, they are manufactured, pure and simple.  They aren't across dunes land that was lightly shaped and natural routing among the native contours.  I agree with the term Mike used, massive.  That doesn't make it inferior to be massively manufactured.  It is all about the golf they ended up with.  It looks pretty darn good to me.

[Garland Bayley]

Garland you have played the course so you are well familiar with the hikes and you already know whether or not you agree with me. But I will humor you. There are a good many spots where the terrain is very steep, surprisingly so for a Mandatory walking course which was the point of my post. Walking up #4 is a difficult march.  The approach to #7 is a tough climb, not long after the previously mentioned walk. Seems like #12 / #13 make up a good bit of uphill ground as well.

As I said, it isn't so tough that it isn't manageable but it is what I would consider very tough for a walking only golf course.  Do you disagree?

I've posted here several times my philosophy that if you can play it, you can walk it. That means tee to green. Not green to tee. Therefore, your hikes are of no consequence in my calculation of the difficulty of the walk. However, extreme green to tee walks are strictly verboten! The 3 to 4, 9 to 10, and 14 to 15 walks are demerits to the course, but not extreme IMO.

[Tim Bert]

So when comparing the walkability of two courses, the tee to green walk is of no consequence?!?  Two golf courses with similar green to tee walks are exactly equal in walkability even if one of those courses is in the mountains or in a steep mining pit and the other course is cometely flat.  Well, I hope the Walking Golfer is paying attention and has this appropriately factored into his system.

Now I understand why the course was such a difficult walk. It must have been because the 4th played to a temporary green and the green to tee walk to the 5th was so difficult.

I change my earlier comments completely. Had Chambers been playing to the real 4th green it certainly would have been the easiest mandatory walking course I have played.

[Garland Bayley]

Tim,

What I am saying is what my standard is. In my reviews on The Walking Golfer, I also point that out so that if you read it you know where I am coming from.

I also would suggest that with your standard Chambers Bay in all likely hood is not the most difficult walking only course you have encountered. You have to remember that all the classics were created as walking only courses. So back fitting them with cart paths doesn't count. I would hazard a guess that you have played a few more difficult than Chambers Bay. I don't get out and play a lot of courses like most here, but I can tell you that Indian Canyon in Spokane, WA is a great classic course with more difficult tee to green walking than Chambers Bay. It certainly was walking only when created. If modern architects weren't so dependent on the golf cart and studied courses like Indian Canyon they could make courses with similar walks instead of creating nightmare green to tee walks like Palouse Ridge. Slag Bandoon tells me that Dan Hixson made several trips to Spokane to study Indian Canyon while he was building Wine Valley in the Palouse, and it is a pure joy to play and walk compared to Palouse Ridge.

[Tim Bert]

I think you probably don't really appreciate how I'm looking at this if you are going to draw comparisons to classic courses that were historically walking only and now allow carts.  It doesn't really have anything to do with what I'm thinking about, even though those courses certainly aren't mandatory walking courses if they now allow carts.  I was asking if Chambers Bay was the most difficult course amongst walking only courses.  Not compared to the 20s.  Not just from a green to tee perspective.  Simply when you consider the relative difficulty of the walk to all other courses that currently only allow walkers, is it the toughest. 

I just found myself wondering how many people might not play Chambers Bay, or might not play multiple rounds there, simply because of the fact that it is walking only.  It is a really fine course that plays firm and fast and would be a nice treat for many people in the Pacific Northwest to experience something different.  I can't help but think the difficulty of the walk might turn some of those folks off.  That's it.  No hidden agenda.  No dog in the fight.

And, if you actually do reviews for The Walking Golfer, then please know that I wasn't trying to call you out on that.  I had no idea.  I mentioned it because I know Rob is from that region and I know he's played Chambers and I found it amusing to think that his ratings might not consider the tee to green walk if he is providing walkability ratings.  I assume this isn't the case and I didn't know you had any affiliation or involvement whatsoever, so I don't want to steer this down yet another tangent.

 

[Tim Pitner]

I'm guessing relatively new, public access courses like Chambers and the Bandon courses aren't exactly in Mr. Marucci's sweet spot of golf course knowledge.  Given where he lives and where he has memberships, why would they be? 

[Richard Choi]

Man, I go on a vacation for a week and all hell break loose...

If you take out the walks through the crossing points (after #3), I really don't think it is more difficult walk than many other courses. Even if you take the crossing points in discussion, I prefer that walk over the trudge to the #14 tee at Bandon Trails which is just a bear. To me it is pretty similar in difficulty to Old Mac in walkability.

I don't agree with Marucci's comment that there is nothing like it elsewhere. Manufactured or not, I get the same feeling I get from Bandon and Ballyneal when I play CB. The dunes, grass, water, they all play a part.

[Steve Lang]

   Tim,  You think Buddy M, who can play literally anywhere he wants, wouldn't be aware of Bandon???  While I think he may be beyond the typcial "Retail Golfer" sought by Mr Keiser, he certainly has the means and contacts that would steer him there for a west coast get-away, probably by private jet too. 

IMO, he's just being the Gentleman Golfer here, remarking about CB, the course is in the spotlight, pump it a little, let it present itself and see what happens.

p.s. i remember talking with a caddie who was carrying two bags for a couple that we played with/through on 9.. he remarked he just had to get to 14 tee and then it was a coast.. very true.  other than the couple of stress tests it was an acceptable walk or cart push.. Bandon Trails just didn't have the same stress test feel on the field of play or off it..  a slope thing?

[Tim Bert]

Man, I go on a vacation for a week and all hell break loose...

If you take out the walks through the crossing points (after #3), I really don't think it is more difficult walk than many other courses. Even if you take the crossing points in discussion, I prefer that walk over the trudge to the #14 tee at Bandon Trails which is just a bear. To me it is pretty similar in difficulty to Old Mac in walkability.

I don't agree with Marucci's comment that there is nothing like it elsewhere. Manufactured or not, I get the same feeling I get from Bandon and Ballyneal when I play CB. The dunes, grass, water, they all play a part.

I just can't imagine walking 54 in a day at Chambers. My personal opinion is the walk is more severe than Old Mac.

[Richard Choi]

Well, I can't imagine doing 54 holes at Chambers either as afternoon rounds will be over 5 hours...

[Tim Pitner]

  Tim,  You think Buddy M, who can play literally anywhere he wants, wouldn't be aware of Bandon???  While I think he may be beyond the typcial "Retail Golfer" sought by Mr Keiser, he certainly has the means and contacts that would steer him there for a west coast get-away, probably by private jet too. 

IMO, he's just being the Gentleman Golfer here, remarking about CB, the course is in the spotlight, pump it a little, let it present itself and see what happens.

Steve,

I wasn't suggesting Mr. Marucci wouldn't be aware of Bandon--just that it might not interest him as much as others because, as you point out, he can play anywhere he wants.  Who knows?

[Anthony Gray]

  I think it is a shame that Bandon does not have more visability because it is soooo speciel.But that kinda helps the rest of us.

  Anthony

[William_G]

I like the pics Dugger posted as it demonstrates that CB is an old gravel pit site. It was filled with sand imported from Canada at an angle down to the water, then planted with fescue.

DEFINITELY, a manufactured course ala Whistling Straits, beautiful setting and a brilliant plan by the county! Much better setting now for the families/joggers/walkers along the perimeter!

I walk and carry at Eugene Country Club everyday I play, and walking and carrying at Chambers Bay is very significant in that many of the holes are straight uphill. You are reminded that this was a filled gravel pit on every hike. The architecture lends itself to that criticism, in that, you definitely are looking forward to the last uphill hike, LOL. The touring pros will definitely talk about this if the US Open is really played there. Thanks

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