[Kyle Henderson]

Her driving distance average is supposedly 243.
http://lpga.com/player_results.aspx?id=5428

It would be higher with the very firm conditions seen during the Open, even with the damp, sea-level air in play.

[George Pazin]

Which part of QED didn't you understand?

If a 4.4 handicap player shooting a 118 is not enough of an evidence, not sure what else would qualify.

You can't even begin to compare a woman's 4.4 to an LPGA golfer. Might as well compare me to Tiger...about as meaningful.

[Garland Bayley]

Her driving distance average is supposedly 243.
http://lpga.com/player_results.aspx?id=5428

It would be higher with the very firm conditions seen during the Open, even with the damp, sea-level air in play.

They dry out courses for the LPGA too. So that driving average is not comparable to what the average guy hits every day.

I picked her, because she played with Yani Tseng here in Portland, and was 80 yards short of Yani on drives.

[Richard Choi]

You can't even begin to compare a woman's 4.4 to an LPGA golfer. Might as well compare me to Tiger...about as meaningful.

George, I would agree. I would think there would be about 15 to 20 stroke difference between a 4.4 and an average LPGA player (I expect about the same from a 5 handicap male player to a PGA Tour player).

But then, that would indicate the LPGA players would have some problems.

[Carl Rogers]

I think the thread title should be:

Can any short hitting, but short game capable individual with some course management skills break 100?

Keep the gender issue out of it.

They should be able to do it.

[Garland Bayley]

Carl,

You have to add straight hitting to your description.

[Kenny Baer]

There is not one LPGA player who barely hits it 200 yds; that is not accurate; there is also not 1 LPGA player that would hit an 8 or 9 iron from 100 yds w/o extreme wind. Your argument is based on completely inaccurate information.

An average LPGA player plays from the mens tees; not the tips but the mens tees; they are probably a +2 to a +4 handicap.  To think they would not break 100 is silly, they would probably have trouble breaking 80 but most would still do that. 

[JeffTodd]

I think the thread title should be:

Can any short hitting, but short game capable individual with some course management skills break 100?

Keep the gender issue out of it.

They should be able to do it.

I was thinking along the same line, but I would take it a step further. The question is if a short hitting but solidly plus handicap individual can break 100.

Top LPGA players freqently shoot in the 60's, sometimes low 60's, on courses in the mid to low 6000 yard range, which would give them handicap indexes that are much better than scratch (calculated using mens, not womens, course ratings; they don't play the Red markers on their tour...).

I don't get the sense that we'd get much debate on whether or not a plus handicap male could break 100 at Pebble. If you put a full field of LPGA players on Pebble yesterday, I'm sure some would shoot over 100, but they would be in the minority. I do think they would have a very difficult time out there,  but I have little doubt that the majority could play bogey golf or better.

[Matthew Hunt]

I'd say most of the Curtis cup player's would get in the 80's with no problem.

[Ben Sims]

Rich,

You're brain is "in a box" on this one.  100?  Really?  I'm not saying I'm a baller, but I shot 95 on my first time around Oakmont from 6900 yards or so.  The rough was graduated, at a solid 3.5 inches much of the time.  We played 4, 7, 8, 10 and 12 from the tippy tips--way past my pay grade--which added a substantial distance to the blue tees that day.  The greens were at what the members were calling, "Open speed", which is to say, slower than normal.  The course was also soft, increasing the length in many places.  

Michelle Wie shot a 76 that same day from the Blue tees.  You can't tell me that another 500 yards and switching the venue to Pebble would equal 24 more strokes for her.  The ladies hit the ball straighter than any of those yahoos that played in the challenge.  And they can putt better too.  100+ is just out of the question for players of that quality.     

[Tom_Doak]

This post shows no respect for the women of the LPGA at all.

I would not bet on any player to break 80 in yesterday's conditions, since Dustin Johnson couldn't do it, either.  But nearly everyone who qualifies for the Women's Open could break 90 at Pebble if the pressure didn't overcome them.

Perhaps they will gain a little more respect next month after they play Oakmont.

[Garland Bayley]

Tom,

Rich is normally a pretty level headed guy. I think meeting you must have knocked his center of kilter a little or something. When he starts ignoring St. George Pazin, I get worried.

[Richard Choi]

Jeff and Carl are on the same wavelength. I admit that my thread title is intentionally used for attention, but I do believe there is something there.

It seems to me that, at a typical US Open setup, short hitters are at much greater disadvantage. I believe shorter you are, you will be punished exponentially at a US Open setup.

I think this is clearly borne out by Golf Digest Challenge. Most of the celebs have been around 5 to 12 handicap and they either broke 100 (quite easily by some) or at least came very close to breaking it. None of the "average joe" have even come close.

I believe the main reason why "average joe" have not been close is because they have been all short hitters, unlike the celebs who are mostly long hitters.

Ben, I believe a 15 handicapper who can drive 280 has a much better chance of breaking 100 at US Open than a 4.4 handicap who can drive 200. It really does not matter if it is women or men. If you cannot hit long your disadvantage grows exponentially.

[Ben Sims]

Ben, I believe a 15 handicapper who can drive 280 has a much better chance of breaking 100 at US Open than a 4.4 handicap who can drive 200. It really does not matter if it is women or men. If you cannot hit long your disadvantage grows exponentially.

Rich,

I agree with this sentence whole heartedly.  But the average LPGA pro isn't a 4.4 'cap that drives it 200 yards.  So I'd have to agree that your title is about as comparable as this thread title "Armchair Architect - Is Jim Colton good enough to design Ballyneal?"

[Richard Choi]

Ben, we all know the real reason for your post is to brag that you shot 95 from the blue tees at Oakmont.

And I will stress that from the beginning I made it clear that the top LPGA players would have absolutely no problem breaking 100 at US Open. I certainly would not be shocked if they broke 80. My musings are more about really short hitters.

[Ben Sims]

Ben, we all know the real reason for your post is to brag that you shot 95 from the blue tees at Oakmont.

My musings are more about really short hitters.

You know me well. 

Is that last sentence a little Freudian? 

[Richard Choi]

Ben, you post remind me of a story.

I listen to Dan Patrick show all the time. One of his favorite thing to say is "I shot 83, 84 at Augusta National". One day, he was interviewing Phil Mickelson and again Dan Patrick mentioned to him that "you know, I shot 83 and 84 at Augusta National."

Phil, without missing a beat, said "Am I supposed to be impressed by that?"

[David_Elvins]

but there are also plenty of LPGA players who barely drive over 200.

Richard,

I am not sure about that.  the shrotest driver on the LPGA Tour averages about 220.  The top 100 longest drivers are all above 245. 

http://www.lpga.com/player_stats.aspx?mid=4&pid=5

[Mike_Young]

[/quote]

Yes they would break 100.  They could make the carries to the fairway and have a much better short game.
[/quote]

Their short games are no where near what people think they are....

[Garland Bayley]

...
Ben, I believe a 15 handicapper who can drive 280 has a much better chance of breaking 100 at US Open than a 4.4 handicap who can drive 200. It really does not matter if it is women or men. If you cannot hit long your disadvantage grows exponentially.

If you are a 15 handicapper who can drive 280, either 1) you are so crooked you will be hacking hay all day, or 2) your short game is so lousy you will be the epitomy of hit and hope around the greens. A 15 handicapper who can drive 280 won't be able to break 110 at a US Open setup. You can take mine and Tiger's word on that.

[George Pazin]

Ben, I believe a 15 handicapper who can drive 280 has a much better chance of breaking 100 at US Open than a 4.4 handicap who can drive 200. It really does not matter if it is women or men. If you cannot hit long your disadvantage grows exponentially.

Since when is zero higher than zero?

[Matt_Ward]

Tom D:

You are spot on.

Yes, I most certainly believe an LPGA player can break a 100 at PB in US Open conditions.

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