[Richard Choi]

Watching the Golf Digest Challenge was pretty sad because from the beginning you knew the female challenger they picked had absolutely no chance to break 100. I was surprised that she broke 120.

What is the point of picking someone who has no chance for the challenge? They could have at least picked at female player who can hit long. 118 is just embarassing for a 4.4. I don't care how good the player is, if she can barely drive 190, there is no way in hell you are going to break 100 on any US Open course.

Personally, I think mid-level LPGA players who hit short will have a very tough time breaking 100 on Pebble Beach this week. What do you think a typical LPGA player would shoot at US Open?

[K. Krahenbuhl]

Watching the Golf Digest Challenge was pretty sad because from the beginning you knew the female challenger they picked had absolutely no chance to break 100. I was surprised that she broke 120.

What is the point of picking someone who has no chance for the challenge? They could have at least picked at female player who can hit long. 118 is just embarassing for a 4.4. I don't care how good the player is, if she can barely drive 190, there is no way in hell you are going to break 100 on any US Open course.

Personally, I think mid-level LPGA players who hit short will have a very tough time breaking 100 on Pebble Beach this week. What do you think a typical LPGA player would shoot at US Open?

Yes they would break 100.  They could make the carries to the fairway and have a much better short game.

[jeffwarne]

Watching the Golf Digest Challenge was pretty sad because from the beginning you knew the female challenger they picked had absolutely no chance to break 100. I was surprised that she broke 120.

What is the point of picking someone who has no chance for the challenge? They could have at least picked at female player who can hit long. 118 is just embarassing for a 4.4. I don't care how good the player is, if she can barely drive 190, there is no way in hell you are going to break 100 on any US Open course.

Personally, I think mid-level LPGA players who hit short will have a very tough time breaking 100 on Pebble Beach this week. What do you think a typical LPGA player would shoot at US Open?

Yes they would break 100.  They could make the carries to the fairway and have a much better short game.

Michelle Wie didn't play?

[John Moore II]

I think an LPGA player could break 100 on that course by course management alone. They would know their limits and play most of the holes as one above the given par possibly. I think thats the problem. I think these players could generally break 100 on these courses if they just assumed par was 90 and played from there. But just because of intelligence in getting around the course, an LPGA player would break 100 on that course. Especially Pebble, with it playing right around 7000 yards. Now, take an LPGA player to Oakmont playing at 7500 and I doubt they could.

[Jeff Evagues]

Somebody actually watched this show?

[Carl Rogers]

I have been in some situations when I have been totally mis-matched by course length and the geometry of my game ... a very un-fun exercise to say the least.

This event needs to be ended.

or

It needs to be shortened relative to the contestants length of drive.

If I can drive it let's say 230 and play a 6500 to 6600 yard course reasonably ....
then if a Tour Pro drives it 300, that represents approx 30 percent distance increase, thus the Pro should be playing a course of approx 8500 yards to play an "equivalent" length course.

[John Moore II]

I have been in some situations when I have been totally mis-matched by course length and the geometry of my game ... a very un-fun exercise to say the least.

This event needs to be ended.

or

It needs to be shortened relative to the contestants length of drive.

If I can drive it let's say 230 and play a 6500 to 6600 yard course reasonably ....
then if a Tour Pro drives it 300, that represents approx 30 percent distance increase, thus the Pro should be playing a course of approx 8500 yards to play an "equivalent" length course.

Carl-You make a point that ties into what I said last night on another thread. These courses that they play for events are too short relatively for these guys. They need to be longer in order for then not to have to do idiotic, silly stuff to make the courses hard.

[Wayne_Kozun]

If I can drive it let's say 230 and play a 6500 to 6600 yard course reasonably ....
then if a Tour Pro drives it 300, that represents approx 30 percent distance increase, thus the Pro should be playing a course of approx 8500 yards to play an "equivalent" length course.

Which gets back to the question (which was asked in another thread) about how long would the 18th at Merion have to be to make the Ben Hogan of today hit driver, 1-iron?  I don't know if Hogan was a long hitter in 1950 or if his drive was well struck.  

But if you replace Ben Hogan with Tiger Woods then I am thinking that the hole would have to be about 570 yards or so.  Many of us Amateurs struggle to hit some par 4s in two, even when we hit a decent drive but only the very shortest hitting pros ever have to hit a long club into a par 4.

[Garland Bayley]

Of course LPGA players can break 100. Silly question.

However, there should be two of these events. One before the Women's event also. Let the low capper men play this event, and the low capper women play the other.

[Richard Choi]

Garland, there are plenty of LPGA players who would break 100 without much problem, but there are also plenty of LPGA players who barely drive over 200. I think they would have a very difficult time breaking 100. I am not saying impossible, but it would not surprise me one bit if they didn't.

Here is my problem with this event. Why do they not select the "average joe" like they select the "celebrities"? Every celebs they have selected have been either great athletes who can hit 300 yard drives or actors/singers who are very accomplished players who can also hit a pretty long ways for an amateur. But when it comes to "average joe" they have selected a cancer victim, retired cop, and a retired female none of whom can drive more than 210 off the tee. Why can't they select a pretty good athletic "average joe" who can at least drive 250 yards? It is hard enough for a 30 year old 10 handicappers trying to break a 100, who select amateurs from the senior circuit?

If you look at the scores, celebs had really no problem breaking 100 or at least coming pretty close while "average joe" has not even come within 15 strokes. I think this is mostly due to the USGA selection of the "average joe" not because celebs are more used to the limelight. Sure, that is probably worth 2 or 3 stroke difference, but not 15.

I just would like to see a legit 10 handicapper trying at a US Open course.

[Gary Slatter]

Richard, you really watched that show?  I tried but it was worse than watching another nil nil contest.

I think many LPGA players would not break 100 under Sunday's conditions - for two reasons, length and poor short games. 

[Matthew Petersen]

Garland, there are plenty of LPGA players who would break 100 without much problem, but there are also plenty of LPGA players who barely drive over 200. I think they would have a very difficult time breaking 100. I am not saying impossible, but it would not surprise me one bit if they didn't.

Here is my problem with this event. Why do they not select the "average joe" like they select the "celebrities"? Every celebs they have selected have been either great athletes who can hit 300 yard drives or actors/singers who are very accomplished players who can also hit a pretty long ways for an amateur. But when it comes to "average joe" they have selected a cancer victim, retired cop, and a retired female none of whom can drive more than 210 off the tee. Why can't they select a pretty good athletic "average joe" who can at least drive 250 yards? It is hard enough for a 30 year old 10 handicappers trying to break a 100, who select amateurs from the senior circuit?

If you look at the scores, celebs had really no problem breaking 100 or at least coming pretty close while "average joe" has not even come within 15 strokes. I think this is mostly due to the USGA selection of the "average joe" not because celebs are more used to the limelight. Sure, that is probably worth 2 or 3 stroke difference, but not 15.

I just would like to see a legit 10 handicapper trying at a US Open course.

Because they are looking for a human interest story.

GD picks 4 or 5 of the most interesting applicants and then they allow the public to vote on those to see who they want to get the spot.

[Garland Bayley]

Garland, there are plenty of LPGA players who would break 100 without much problem, but there are also plenty of LPGA players who barely drive over 200. I think they would have a very difficult time breaking 100. I am not saying impossible, but it would not surprise me one bit if they didn't.
...

Perhaps you know the carries required to play the holes at PB for this open from watching the triple bogey fest. From watching some of it on TV, it did not look too onerous. Perhaps an LPGA player would have to give up a stroke on a couple of holes for length off the tee, but it would not be a significant factor in attempting to break 100. Ai Miyazato is not a long hitter, but I bet she could have sent those male celebrities home with their tails between their legs.

[Richard Choi]

Garland, I disagree.

Take a look at #7. It only played 100 yards. However, even the longest guys had problems keeping the ball on the green with a lob wedge. Ai would have to hit a 9 iron or even an 8 iron. She has absolutely no HOPE of keeping that shot on the green. That goes same for many other holes. There were plenty of greens where even with wedges and short irons, guys had hard time holding the green. Miyazato would be hitting 4 irons into the same hole. She has absolutely no hope. The par would be something like 90+ for a short hitting LPGA player.

[Kyle Henderson]

A top 25 LPGA player would break 100 more often than not under the conditions of the Challenge, IMHO.

Those girls rock.

[Richard Choi]

Kyle, again, I don't disagree. I am just saying short hitting middle of the pack LPGA players would have a tough time.

And when an LPGA players are going to have a tough time breaking 100, putting out a senior woman out there (even if she is a 4.4) is just a joke. And why bother putting an event like this if it is going to be just a joke? Skip the average joe and just use the celebs for a full foursome.

[Garland Bayley]

Garland, I disagree.

Take a look at #7. It only played 100 yards. However, even the longest guys had problems keeping the ball on the green with a lob wedge. Ai would have to hit a 9 iron or even an 8 iron. She has absolutely no HOPE of keeping that shot on the green. That goes same for many other holes. There were plenty of greens where even with wedges and short irons, guys had hard time holding the green. Miyazato would be hitting 4 irons into the same hole. She has absolutely no hope. The par would be something like 90+ for a short hitting LPGA player.

Richard,

You realize of course that your formula says 400-500 yards = 20 strokes don't you?
The LPGA players play at 400-500 yards less on their courses, and somehow you think it will take them 20 strokes to make up the difference?
They also play on fast greens and can eat your lunch on them.

I think male chauvinism is dominating this thread.

[Richard Choi]

Garland, formula has nothing to do with it. #7 shows you that even on a very very short shot, the difference is a full stroke or more.

[Garland Bayley]

Garland, formula has nothing to do with it. #7 shows you that even on a very very short shot, the difference is a full stroke or more.

So what? Even if I accept that outlandish claim. To prove your hypothesis you have to have a course with 20 holes and show them all to have a full stroke differential. QED!

[Joe Perches]

Take a look at #7. It only played 100 yards.  Ai would have to hit a 9 iron or even an 8 iron.

I have a hard time believing she'd use anything more than a sand wedge
unless the wind was up.

Her driving distance average is supposedly 243.
http://lpga.com/player_results.aspx?id=5428

[Richard Choi]

So what? Even if I accept that outlandish claim. To prove your hypothesis you have to have a course with 20 holes and show them all to have a full stroke differential. QED!

I think that is fairly easy. Take 1 stroke each all the holes longer than 380. Take 1 additional stroke per hole for the fact that LPGA player would have to lay up in front of the green for them to chip up on most greens as their approach shots will not hold and the fact that they will not be able advance more than 20 or 30 yards if they hit the rough.

That would easily show 20 stroke difference.

[Anthony Butler]

Ai Miyazato would shoot about 85. There's not a fairway she couldn't reach for the Open setup at Pebble and I would venture to guess she would probably hit more of them than any of the contenders in the top 10 yesterday.

The shots that would be really challenging would be the second shots at 6, 8, 9, 10, 13, 15.

The third shot at 14 would be a huge problem. Most likely they would lay up from anywhere more than 150 and hit a 80 yard lob wedge in. 17 would also be impossible to hit, but then again who amongst the leaders hit the green yesterday? They all needed a 24 degree hybrid which they are too proud to carry.

arb:

[George Pazin]

The biggest farce about the show is the claim that they're playing under US Open conditions. Not even close, or Tiger's infamous prediction would come true. As some players have noted, there aren't necessarily similarities between Tues and Thurs, let alone someone playing a few weeks ahead of time.

An LPGA player would shoot way better (that is, much less) than 100 in the GD Challenge. I'm not at all sure what they'd shoot if playing the actual US Open.

[Garland Bayley]

So what? Even if I accept that outlandish claim. To prove your hypothesis you have to have a course with 20 holes and show them all to have a full stroke differential. QED!

I think that is fairly easy. Take 1 stroke each all the holes longer than 380. Take 1 additional stroke per hole for the fact that LPGA player would have to lay up in front of the green for them to chip up on most greens as their approach shots will not hold and the fact that they will not be able advance more than 20 or 30 yards if they hit the rough.

That would easily show 20 stroke difference.

Which part of QED didn't you understand?

[Richard Choi]

Which part of QED didn't you understand?

If a 4.4 handicap player shooting a 118 is not enough of an evidence, not sure what else would qualify.

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