[Jud_T]

I don't have a problem with Tiger's comments.  Obviously he was steamed that he struck the ball great and managed his way around very well and had 34 putts to walk off with a 74.  Given his recent situation, I actually think it's a good sign to see him getting cocky again about his game.  It'll be interesting to hear his comments after today's round, especially if he has 30+ putts again without the afternoon excuse.  I understand what the protocol is, but all these guys are a bunch of robots.  It's good to hear someone actually speak their mind for a change.  

[Adam Clayman]

John Moore, They don't choose it, it chooses them. Poa is virtually impossible to get rid of in a coastal environment. It is not a bad putting surface. It's characteristics are not only predictable, but also, observable.

[Ian Larson]

Poa, bent or Bermuda......it doesn't matter. After a long day in the sun they are going to get trampled and they are going to grow a bit with the leafblades slightly following the sun. The last group of the day is never going to have the best surfaces, no matter what grass type. There is nothing unusual here, especially Tiger making that comment. Who cares? The super doesn't, the USGA doesn't. So why should anyone else?

[Matt_Ward]

Jim:

Geeze, candor has no place in golf -- just put forward the same old cliche PR politically correct lines and go from there. There was an interview Jim McKay did with Tony Lema when coming to TOC the first time -- he gushed on camera but when the lights went down he said he thought the place was far less than advertised. The man won there in 1964 and I salute his desire to share his thoughts. Do we simply want people to provide robotic plain vanilla answers. Maybe you do -- I don't.

Jon:

I never said I wanted "perfect" greens. But I do want skill -- not luck to be the dominant factor. Balls that bounce one way with the same stroke and then bounce the next way with the same stroke is not a game -- that is chance.

Is it too much to ask for greens that work -- last I checked the calenar reads 2010 !

PB has the $$ -- if they need to raise it so be it. The people who play PB -- the ones who can afford it now -- can hack shelling out a few more hundred. The fanciful and wrong assumption that Joe the Plumber is walking the fairways at PB is silly -- it doesn't happen all that often and should the increasing fees push even more of such people off the fairways then so be it. The march to a certain select group of people to play PB has been underway for quite some time.

Jon, you introduced a straw man. The issue is not Tiger throwing clubs but in being accurate in what he addressed at PB. Don't lob into the disucssion something that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Phil:

The issue is not the inherent elements of PB or the winners who have won inspite of everything else -- it's the greens. Is it too much to ask for in 2010 that greens actually roll like greens? Is the USGA learning anything that stressing out greens makes no sense -- that the only thing you cause to happen is for luck to determine the eventual outcome -- and not skill.

Tom D:

Simple thing -- fix the issue. It can't be a $$ issue -- my God, this is PB. Tiger made similar comments when he balked at playing there after winning the 2000 US Open -- was anyone really listening then ?

Tom, the idea that there is "NO SOLUTION' (your EMPHASIS not mine) is simply throwing in the towel and hoping for the best. If you want to wrap your arms around a defeatist attitude so be it. I think PB suffers because of it and it's time for something to get straightened out. In regards to fees -- just who the hell is playing PB now ? Joe Sixpack and Mary Wineglass have not been dotting the fairways with their presence for some time. How is it with all the money they are getting now that such an issue still continues?

Tom -- it's quite simple -- this is our national championship -- let's get it right so people can see it in all its glory and design greatness, You can throw all the questions and slings at me all you want -- I want to see the best players tested for their skills -- not for some zany bounce of the ball that becomes the dominant story line. I am well aware of "rub of the green" situations tied to golf so please don't lecture me on how unpredictability is part and parcel of the game. The issue is making sure that the zany and goofy doesn't become more of the story line than it needs to be.

Final point -- Tiger Woods is entitled to offer his opinions -- in the manner and straightforward nature that he does. Didn't you with CG and your book? I saluted your candor with CG and think it adds immeasurably to the understanding of golf course design -- I see Tiger's candor doing no less in spotlighting an issue that has for far too long been the central element when people play PB -- the greens need to be fixed.

[Richard Choi]

Interesting that no one is accusing Tiger of lying, but ridiculing him nonetheless. Oh well, with that crowd even if he said in the press conference "the greens were great" they would call him out for being disengenuous.

I would rather him speak truthfully about what is in his mind, more unfiltered the better.

[Tom_Doak]

Ian:

You don't think that problem is worse with Poa annua?

Personally, I don't have a problem with Tiger saying the greens are bad.  It's a fact, just a fact that everybody in the competition has to deal with.  I think the main reason we are talking about it is that it is to see if it's a window to his mind-set, and it may not be ... he may just be looking to get over the frustration of a bad round and not get down on his own play.  If he says the same thing Sunday night, then I would not brush it off that easily.

[Bill_Yates]

Ok!  So tell me why two weeks ago when people were paying $495 to play, the greens were green, smooth, and perfect?

Nevermind, I'll tell you. They stopped watering them.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom D:

Simple thing -- fix the issue. It can't be a $$ issue -- my God, this is PB. Tiger made similar comments when he balked at playing there after winning the 2000 US Open -- was anyone really listening then ?

Tom, the idea that there is "NO SOLUTION' (your EMPHASIS not mine) is simply throwing in the towel and hoping for the best. If you want to wrap your arms around a defeatist attitude so be it. I think PB suffers because of it and it's time for something to get straightened out. In regards to fees -- just who the hell is playing PB now ? Joe Sixpack and Mary Wineglass have not been dotting the fairways with their presence for some time. How is it with all the money they are getting now that such an issue still continues?

Tom -- it's quite simple -- this is our national championship -- let's get it right so people can see it in all its glory and design greatness, You can throw all the questions and slings at me all you want -- I want to see the best players tested for their skills -- not for some zany bounce of the ball that becomes the dominant story line. I am well aware of "rub of the green" situations tied to golf so please don't lecture me on how unpredictability is part and parcel of the game. The issue is making sure that the zany and goofy doesn't become more of the story line than it needs to be.

Final point -- Tiger Woods is entitled to offer his opinions -- in the manner and straightforward nature that he does. Didn't you with CG and your book? I saluted your candor with CG and think it adds immeasurably to the understanding of golf course design -- I see Tiger's candor doing no less in spotlighting an issue that has for far too long been the central element when people play PB -- the greens need to be fixed.

Matt:

I agree with your last point (and just said so above).

As for the others, you did not address any of the things I did in my earlier post.  You just whined about the conditions, without suggesting any real solution.  Why don't you go back to the multiple choice question in my earlier post and pick one of (a) through (e) ?  Or, opine that Pebble really shouldn't be hosting an Open.  Just don't criticize the management when you have no solution.

[JESII]

Matt,

When was the last time Tiger was candid about himself? Has he hit a bad shot yet? Give me a break about candor...

I would love for the super to get a video camera straight behind every one of his putts for the next three days and actually tell us the truth...

[Richard Choi]

What about rebuilding the green every 2 (or 1?) years before the Open? You would figure the bent grass will be dominating for at least two or three years after you completely rebuild them. PB can afford it.

[Mike Sweeney]

Tiger may be done for the year, although I would not bet against him at The Old Course. That said after watching Kobe last night in one of the greatest defensive games ever, I would agree with Lupica here and do not count out Tiger long term.

Tiger just has to write a big check, nobody is trying to put him in jail like Kobe.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/2010/06/17/2010-06-17_kobe_provides_tiger_roadmap_to_redemption.html

PS. The above is not a comment on the people, just the concept of Kobe breaking Jordan's record and Tiger breaking Jack's.

[Tom_Doak]

Richard:

Seriously?  You want them to take the whole course out of play for six months to rebuild the greens every time they host an Open, so we don't have to listen to this?

Your word for the day is:  sustainability.

[Richard Choi]

What about using the sod? Wouldn't you be able to play within a month or so? Sure, it would be crappy for the paying customer for several months, but probably doable...

[Tom_Doak]

Richard:

This is why people who don't know much about agronomy should NOT make any of the decisions at golf courses.

[George Pazin]

George,

It's just a bad move to go into the interview room and bitch at all...and I agree that it's insulting to the superintendent and their staff. What's to be gained?

He said it was a result of the grass - how is that insulting to the grounds crew?

Bad move - maybe. Most likely it's a whole lotta nothin'.

What's to be gained? Not much, just a little venting.

[Richard Choi]

Richard:

This is why people who don't know much about agronomy should NOT make any of the decisions at golf courses.

I certainly agree with THAT point!

[Adam Clayman]

Matt,
Is luck quantifiable?

How do you feel about Karma?

Mike Davis just made the statement that if the moisture is not high enough in the greens, well executed shots won't be rewarded.

Seems cart ahead of the horseish, to me.

[Terry Lavin]

The US Open often identifies the luckiest or pluckiest player, not necessarily the best player.  This might be one of those years, sort of like Retief at Shinnecock.  He who putts the best will win this thing, it seems to me.

[Matt_Ward]

Adam:

I NEVER SAID -- that luck has no place in the game or at a US Open. When luck becomes THE storyline I have a problem with that. Maybe you don't -- great. I and others do.

Jim:

Nice try -- but Tiger has been candid when he's not played well. The issue Jim is people see what they want to see. Those who have a bug up their butt about Tiger (the-off course hijinks and the other on-course stuff like the club tossing, swearing) will see what they want no matter what he says or does. I don't give Tiger a free pass but his comments on the greens being awful is likely on the tips of the tongues of other pros too -- Tiger has the standing to say it and no doubt will engender feelings on all sides. I see -- let's forget the message and shoot the messenger. I get it now.


Tom:

I am not an expert in rectifying the ills of PB's greens. I am just an observer -- but there are people -- those with expertise and the deep pockets who can certainly contribute to the situation at-hand. How bout someone like AP open his mouth to his partners and get something in gear? You mention management. OK. So what are they doing? Is the USGA causing more of this with its desire for speed and not applying any measurable H20 to the surfaces there?

Tom, let's get real -- I don't pretend to know baseball like Joe Torre but I am still entitled to have an opinion. PB is a national treausre to American golf and should be played with the desire that skill is the dominant ingreident -- not balls jumping up and down no matter how skilled the play.

If you see people who moan and groan about a situation that has been a constant irritant as the problem then you are simply flipping the situation instead of dealing with the matter at-hand. So be it.

Love the retort Tom -- about me whining. Give me a freakin break. PB needs to have greens that work. Let me point out I can likely point to any number of your comments in CG as whines too. I don't. I see them as being candid and quite compelling in a number of instances. PB has had green issues for quite some time -- the sad fact is that people need to just open their eyes and realize that those who love PB want to see something a bit better than what is there now.

Last point -- you throw forward a multiple choice quiz show. Tom, this is the US Open -- it should be played and contested with skill being a center point in the overall proceedings. I am not saying - so please don't respond with the predictable and tired retort that I am against the odd bounce of the ball -- I'm not. I'm just tired of PB greens being nothing more than a pot luck show. End of story ...

[Adam Clayman]

Adam:

I NEVER SAID -- that luck has no place in the game or at a US Open. When luck becomes THE storyline I have a problem with that. Maybe you don't -- great. I and others do.

Matt, Comprehension 101.

A question does not identify a position.

[Phil McDade]

Matt:

Tiger teed off at 1:36 p.m., Micheel at 12:52 p.m., and Casey at 1:14 p.m. -- in short, all played the greens under similar conditions. Tiger took 34 putts, Micheel and Casey 24 or less. Can't one make the argument that Tiger had a poor putting round on less-than-ideal green conditions, while Micheel and Casey managed their putting much better?

What's wrong with that? Sounds like golf to me. I seem to recall a lot of golfers struggling with Pebble's set-up and greens in 2000 -- well, all but one of them...

[Richard Choi]

Micheel didn't hit too many greens (less than average), and Tiger hit them very often.

Micheel just a had a great day with his scrambling. Doesn't really say much about how bumpy the greens are.

[Garland Bayley]

"I hit the ball well enough to shoot a good score," Woods said. "These greens are just awful. They're moving every which way."

It the main reason he hasn't played in the AT&T in years.  Furthermore he had a late start which made the greens more bumpy.  

Jack must be smiling now.

The whiners don't win. The record remains safe as long as Tiger whines.

[Richard Choi]

Good gawd, screw the greens, USGA needs to fix the pace of play!!!

8:36 AM starting time and Tiger's group is waiting on every shot from hole 2 on. Pathetic!!!

[Richard Choi]

Isn't the poor putting by Tiger caused by change in his own pace?

When he won in 2000, it was regularly hitting the putt 3 feet past the hole. It seems these days he is letting the ball die around the hole. I think that is not a good way to overcome the bumpy poa greens. Shouldn't he be hitting them more firm?

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