[Jon Wiggett]

"I hit the ball well enough to shoot a good score," Woods said. Maybe Tiger is too tied up in quality of strike/shot with actually getting the ball in the hole.

It is interesting to see the difference with Mickelson.

"It was terrible on the greens, one of my worst putting days," said Mickelson. "I misread a lot and hit a bunch of poor putts and didn't make birdies because of it.

"It's disappointing. It was a very fair set-up, conditions were good and it was under-par scoring today."

According to the BBC website, Mickelson then went straight to the practice green after his round to work on his putting.

Jon

[Steve Kline]

Tiger's turning into a puss by making comments like that. The putts he missed at the end were all missed the same way - short and left. Tells me he's decelerating and pulling the putts. His mental game seems to be failing - not surprising given what's gone on in his life. If I were another played I'd take great confidence that Tiger can beat himself now. I liked that one of the commentators on the GC mentioned that in 2000 Tiger was on the putting green until dark the night before the tournament and that he;s not doing that this year.

In general I think the course looks fantastic. I love how the fairways have been mowed up to the edge of the ocean and the bunkers. PB seems like such a better course in the summer for the Open than in the Clambake when everything is wet and soggy.

[archie_struthers]

 


Nicklaus record is starting to look like it might hold up  after all

[Phil_the_Author]

Since this has been mentioned several times, why is it that unless Tiger or Phil win this championship that the idea that "the best player" has NOT been identified? Since when is the purpose of the U.S. Open, or any other for that reason, to identify the best player of the YEAR or CAREER? It is a 4-DAY championship...

Lucas Glover was CLEARLY the best player at Bethpage last year. If Brendan DeJonge goes on to win at Pebble why would it be considered any LESS of a championship, as if it was the USGA & Pebble who failed rather than Tiger, Phil, Padraig, Cabrera, etc...?

[Jeff_Brauer]

It looked to me like TW made perfect practice putting stroke swings, and then stepped up to  putt and collapsed his wrists just a wee bit.  Just like the rest of us!

As to the poa, I am told that there is a new product coming out that will allow you to spray out poa without hurting the bent. If its as good as some say it is, it would save rebuilding greens like PB's all over the country.

[Adam Clayman]

Putting on Poa is akin to putting on Brocoli. Bumpy is their nature. It forces the player to control of the ball rather than let th creep out allow it to go in.  What that says to me is 12.5 is just not the right meld. Many are calling the reason the right half of 14 is not pinable is not because it has settled into being too steep. The speeds are too high for that greens unique character. Compare that to the right back side of the 8th green, which was sliding toward the pond. 

[Tom_Doak]

Jeff:

I am really bothered that architects such as yourself are touting new chemicals as the answer to something.  Some of your fellow ASGCA men did the same at the conference in St. Andrews, apparently not knowing that herbicides are pretty much illegal there in Europe.


All:

Poa annua greens are INEVITABLE on the Monterey Peninsula and in San Francisco.  There is just not enough sunlight through the year for bentgrass to thrive.  And, on top of that, Pebble's tiny greens and the popularity of the course concentrate a lot of traffic in a small area, which increases the stress on the greens.

The greens are worse than before BECAUSE they regrassed the greens before the Open in 2000.  They were close to pure bent for a few years after they were rebuilt, before the inevitable transition happened.  But, now that the surface has become infiltrated by Poa, they have a bunch of 10-year-old Poa annua that isn't self-selected for drought tolerance or for seedhead production, as the grasses from 15 years ago were [or as Oakmont's Poa annua is]. 

[Sorry to all the creationists out there for postulating something which suggests natural selection ... for you folks, God has cursed the management at Pebble Beach for messing with His natural system. ]

It is the newer Poa annua (plus the greens running 12.5 on the Stimpmeter) which make the greens so bumpy.  There is a way for Tiger and Phil to avoid the problem ... if they keep making bogeys, they will get earlier tee times on the weekend. 

[Adam Clayman]

Tom. I don't recall the greens being re done before 2000. They did replace the collars and aprons prior to the '99 Am, though.

[Phil McDade]

If poa is more of a problem in the afternoon than morning, then presumably Tiger and other afternoon starters yesterday have the advantage of non-blooming greens today when they tee off in the morning.

Several afternoon starters had very good putting rounds, including Micheel, who had 22 putts on the day.

It's the first day -- first-round leaders in the US Open often fade, esp. on this course (first-round leaders in '72 at Pebble included Orville Moody, Mason Rudolph, Tom Shaw and the great Kermit Zarley). A realistic assessment of contenders -- which on this course I'd suggest is anyone within eight strokes of the lead -- would show plenty of solid golfers.

#5 green did look noticeably smoother to me on TV.

Tom -- thanks for the agronomy lesson. It's one reason I visit this site daily -- I almost always learn something new.

[Matt_Ward]

The issue is not the usual and tired response that the course is the same for everyone and you play it as you find it.

My God -- it's the US Open !

How bout having something worthy of being called a green actually roll like one? Is that too much to ask for ?

Tiger is one of the world's premier putters -- maybe the finest the game has ever produced. I love how certain people then turn things around and beat up on him. The fact is very clear -- after winning the Open in 2000 -- Tiger said adios to the AT&T. I give him credit for saying things publicly to get such an issue right up front.

Doak said it best with his comments -- the place has small greens, plenty of traffic and some Mother Nature related issues.

I don't want to see the event decided by who gets the most opportune bounce of the ball with "luck" being the deciding determinant.

Be curious to see if NBC announcers focus any real time on this element.

[Phil McDade]

Matt:

Given Tom's comments, should the USGA abandon Pebble as a US Open site? If winners of the Open are any indication of a course's worthiness, then Pebble's winners stand up with any Open site.

[Tom_Doak]

Matt:

As long as you are going to criticize the maintenance of Pebble Beach and suggest they solve the problem, it would be big of you not to ignore the fact that there IS NO solution.

Or do you have a solution and you just failed to mention it?

Here's what you mentioned:

(a)  small greens - are you suggesting they be doubled in size?
(b)  plenty of traffic - are you suggesting Pebble raise the green fee to $1000 and cut rounds in half?
(c)  Mother Nature related issues - are you suggesting they move indoors?
(d)  "luck" - are you suggesting that the laws of the universe be repealed?
(e)  Poa annua - are you suggesting they CLOSE Pebble Beach one year out of every 7-8 to re-turf all of the greens?

Or are you suggesting they shouldn't play tournaments at Pebble Beach at all, because these conditions are inevitable?

I am surprised at you for not holding Tiger to the same standard as every other pro.  It's his duty to play the course as he finds it.  If he can't do that, perhaps he should skip the 2019 Open and save himself the heartache.

[Jon Wiggett]

Matt,

we all want as players to play on perfect surfaces. I think, as you, Tom D puts a very good point. If the USGA demand better greens this means much less play on the course all the time which the owners are not going to do. So, the other possibility is not to hold the US Open at PB which would be plain wrong.

Also, in any close finish the winner will have had some good fortune and the looser some bad at some point in the last round.

I used to be a great admirer of TW but his behaviour in the last two years has left me sickened. This is a case of not being able to accept 'the rub of the green' and whining. What will he do at The Open, complain about it being windy in the afternoon when he plays but not in the morning?

Tiger in full flow is a joy to watch and he is very gracious when winning. But the club throwing, swearing, tantrums and poor conduct just are not acceptable. If I were to behave like that I would get a heavy fine and a ban. I hope we get the old Tiger back some day soon but until then I couldn't care less if he choses not to play .

Jon

[Gary Slatter]

as usual Tom is 100% correct.  The main problem with poa greens under US Open stress, is in the afternoon some of it grows and creates bumps.  Could it be possible to cut the greens between the am and pm draw to lessen the gowth?  or even roll them between draws?  

I think Tiger will enjoy this mornings greens more than yesterday afternoon's version.  Once the cut occurs the theory that "all players play the same course" becomes more accurate as players with similar positions in the field are playing together from the first tee.   Before that it is "luck of the draw" at its cruelest.

[Dan Boerger]

Hey - Tiger's entitled to his opinion.

He can grin and bear it (which he seems to be doing) or miss the cut or just not compete there. His dislike of poa greens is nothing new.

With relatively small greens and a more erratic putting surface, it sure puts greater importance on approach shots for this Open --- which is not a bad thing IMO.

[Phil McDade]

as usual Tom is 100% correct.  The main problem with poa greens under US Open stress, is in the afternoon some of it grows and creates bumps.  Could it be possible to cut the greens between the am and pm draw to lessen the gowth?  or even roll them between draws?  

I think Tiger will enjoy this mornings greens more than yesterday afternoon's version.  Once the cut occurs the theory that "all players play the same course" becomes more accurate as players with similar positions in the field are playing together from the first tee.   Before that it is "luck of the draw" at its cruelest.

Gary:

Tiger -- and presumably the rest of the field -- know full well the tendencies of poa on the West Coast, and therefore know an afternoon start will lead to a bumpier experience on those greens.

Cutting or rolling mid-round is just flatly unfair -- some group will play the greens just before they are cut/rolled, and a group right after that, and I don't think you can deliberately create advantageous situations like that. The morning/afternoon alternate tee-off times for the first two rounds at least lets the entire field, to a degree or so, experience the greens both in the morning and the afternoon.

[Tim Bert]

I imagine that if Pebble's greens could speak they might call Tiger awful too.

[Bill_McBride]

It looked to me like TW made perfect practice putting stroke swings, and then stepped up to  putt and collapsed his wrists just a wee bit.  Just like the rest of us!

As to the poa, I am told that there is a new product coming out that will allow you to spray out poa without hurting the bent. If its as good as some say it is, it would save rebuilding greens like PB's all over the country.

Jeff, is there anything but poa in those greens?  It never gets hot enough there to send it into dormancy for the summer like it does in the east.  It did look like there were a lot of putts wandering around.

[Anthony_Nysse]

All:

The greens are worse than before BECAUSE they regrassed the greens before the Open in 2000.  They were close to pure bent for a few years after they were rebuilt, before the inevitable transition happened.  But, now that the surface has become infiltrated by Poa, they have a bunch of 10-year-old Poa annua that isn't self-selected for drought tolerance or for seedhead production, as the grasses from 15 years ago were [or as Oakmont's Poa annua is]. 

Pebbles greens were not regrassed before the 2000 Open, only the 5th after Nicklaus changed it.

[Mike Hendren]

Hardly surprising they would be a little bumpy, particularly late in the day. 

Perhaps Pebble's greens remain under-appreciated by the retail golfer and architectural cognoscenti.  With the exception of the 14th and 17th they are not internally dramatic and frankly given their incredibly small size don't have room to be so.    However, their generally one-directional tilt works extremely well with the overall property's cant toward the sea and is the course's best defense.  Architecture is the primary reason we will continue to see short, breaking putts missed - not because of the bumpy greens.

Mike

[George Pazin]

Pretty funny seeing a bunch of gca lovers calling out a guy who's won 14 majors.

If you set aside his anger and frustration, Tiger largely said it was the result of playing in the afternoon and that they will roll fine in the morning. He wasn't commenting on the greens in general or the maintenance or anything else, merely the fact that they get bumpy in the afternoon and it caused him - and others, he specifically mentioned some of Ernie's and Lee's putts - to struggle with putts he/they wouldn't otherwise.

As always, people seem to want to know what the competitors are thinking...until they find out it's not what they want them to say.

Damned if you do...

[Tom_Doak]

All:

The greens are worse than before BECAUSE they regrassed the greens before the Open in 2000.  They were close to pure bent for a few years after they were rebuilt, before the inevitable transition happened.  But, now that the surface has become infiltrated by Poa, they have a bunch of 10-year-old Poa annua that isn't self-selected for drought tolerance or for seedhead production, as the grasses from 15 years ago were [or as Oakmont's Poa annua is]. 

Pebbles greens were not regrassed before the 2000 Open, only the 5th after Nicklaus changed it.

Anthony:

You are right, I got the year wrong ... but those greens were rebuilt and regrassed sometime before 2000, maybe before 1992.  Ed Connor did the construction work under Nicklaus.

[John Moore II]

I just have to ask why courses choose to go with Poa greens? They were bad in the evening at Torrey Pines and they are just generally bad. Why would you use them at all? I just don't get it. Use bent, it stays uniform all day. Sure, golf isn't meant to be fair, but everyone aught to at least play the same course at any given time of day and a championship shouldn't come down to who hits the bumps right or wrong.

[JESII]

George,

It's just a bad move to go into the interview room and bitch at all...and I agree that it's insulting to the superintendent and their staff. What's to be gained?

[Mike Hendren]

This just in:  Tiger Woods might not be a "good guy."

Bogey

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