What do you all know about Hawk's Ridge?

[Bart Bradley]

Reviewing Golfweek's recent ranking list, I see that Hawk's Ridge fell out of the TOP 100 after several recent rankings in the top 50 modern.  I searched the archives and found no discussion of this Ball Ground, GA course.  Can anyone tell me anything?  Does anyone have any photos?

Bart

[John_Cullum]

I have had many invitations to play, but have not found the scheduling convenient. It is noted for superior condition. I don't believe the cognescenti look favorably upon it, but most others do.

[Gary Daughters]

Bart,

I played Hawks Ridge a year or so ago and was underwhelmed.  Kept hearing it was better conditioned than ANGC (as if to underscore said reputation one tee box has holes cut into it as if one could practice putting while waiting for the group ahead).  Well, no... conditioning really wasn't that special, and the course, to me, even less so.  A hole I do remember fondly is #9, a medium-to-lengthy par 4 that has a nifty semi-blind approach.  Was told the members hate it.  My caddy had me watching out for snakes, which was a bit unnerving.  Oh, yes.. at some point the club added a "Smoltz bunker" to #18 to keep former Brave John Smoltz from cutting a dogleg with his drive.  Seems an expensive way to pad a member's ego, but whatever.  Maybe I'm being too harsh.

[Andy Troeger]

I played Hawks Ridge in May--I think its borderline for Top 100 Modern but that still makes it a very good golf course. There are a few holes of note--I thought the long 2nd was a good par four and the 6th is a good drivable par four. I also liked #10 and 11. I did not care for #18 and others have said that as well. I think some probably love it.

My caddie said the course had 17 good holes, but the one he did not like was #9. It is a bit different from the rest of the course, but a pretty interesting green.

Bart,
I believe they have some photos on their website--I have some but don't have access to them at the moment. If you can't find any others remind me and I'll send them along.

[Mac Plumart]

Bart...

I played this course a few weeks ago.  Unfortunately, I forgot to bring my camera.

The land the course is on is pretty severe, but Bob Cupp seems to have done a pretty good job with it.  At times he routes the course to make that extreme land seem more like gentle rolling hills...but every know and again he takes you on a wild up and down right that has severe uphill or downhill shots.

Water is also a frequently used hazard.  Creeks, ponds, etc.  Therefore, at times it is quite penal.

It seems to be set up for the low to mid handicapper with the severe terrain and the unforgivable water hazards.  So, bring your "A" game and you will have a great time. 

I went into it with a pretty wide open mind, but I had heard people say bad things about it.  But I really did enjoy it quite a bit.

Tell me what you think about hole #4 after you play it.  I loved it...but I could see others might hate it.

As for 18, I liked it fine.  It fits the course perfectly.  Water carry off the tee, water behind the green.  Downhill tee shot...fits the severe terrain idea.  Lots of bunkers...fits the low to mid handicap model of the course.

Go in eyes wide open on this thing and you will like it.

[Andy Troeger]

Mac,
If you think Hawks Ridge is on severe terrain you need to visit the Mountain Time Zone! 

I liked the 4th too on first impression, but I think I'd need to play it many times trying different angles to really get an idea of whether it makes sense with the centerline trees. They certainly were right in the way for what would have been the obvious lay-up position otherwise.

My issue with 18 is the bunkering off the tee--way too much. It basically pushes you right and makes it an awkward three shot hole, you have to be too perfect to have any chance at getting home in two that its not even worth considering unless you're a pro.

[Tom_Doak]

It is hard for any course to hang its hat on conditioning in this day and age.  So many courses spend so much money on conditioning, that to outdo everyone else is folly.

[Mac Plumart]

Andy...I agree on all your points.  

18 is only birdie-able (maybe par-able) if you are a very good player.  But don't you think that is who the course is meant to be played by?  I am right now an 11.5 handicap and played fairly well out there, but at times it took all I had to hang in there.  I think a 15+ handicap would not have a good time at Hawks Ridge.  But, if you are a 2...I think you would love the challenge.  I suppose that doesn't make it a great course...but it is pretty darn good for the better players.

On 4...I loved it.  Unique as hell.  Bunkers left, water right, tree totally blocking that little bottle neck enterance.  I was on the far right of the fairway with a downhill side hill lie.  I had to debate fading it over the bunkers and onto the green or draw it from over the water and onto the green.  I went with the draw and after a few seconds of high anxiety, I landed on the fringe.  Fun stuff!!

On getting out west...yes, sir.  I need that experience for sure.  Any must plays in your eyes that I need to check out?

EDIT...Tom posted while I was typing.  Isn't bragging about conditioning a losers game?  If all you've got is a manicured course,  then that will take a hit when economic times pinch the budget and you will be left with a so-so course that is so-so maintained.  I think during these tough times good architecture should rise to the top as fluff (overly manicured courses) takes a hit.  I think that is your point, which I agree with.  Now I am off for some more coffee!!!

[Mike Nuzzo]

The 3rd hole plays over a spectacular lake and yet the right side is completely open... according to the video on hawskridge.com.
That is as far as I could get...

[Mac Plumart]

Mike please elaborate on that post...

what does that mean?  Is that good/bad?  What would you have done different?

[Mike Nuzzo]

How can a hole play over/across a lake and be open for everyone?

What would I have done?
I either would have built the course different or I would have said something different on the video.

[Andy Troeger]

Mac,
The course is difficult to be sure, but I don't think the design is intended to be exclusively for the better player. I'm a 9 hcp and played very well on the front nine and shot 38 before blowing up on the last six holes. The course is reasonably generous off the tee but does have some long forced carries even if they are on the shorter holes. I think a 15-25 hcp could enjoy Hawks Ridge, but once you get higher than that it would be awfully tough. You could say that about most top courses though--they tend to be pretty difficult with relatively few exceptions.

Regarding 18, my biggest issue might be that I've seen many other iterations of the same hole and that one is easily the worst of the bunch because of the bunkering off the tee and the awkward layup. There's no reward for taking the risk unless you're a scratch player.

[Mac Plumart]

Mike...

Oh, I get it.  I misunderstood you post.  My bad.

I thought you were saying something different.

I am kind of dump!  

[Kenny Baer]

I think it is a decent course that was built on land that is to severe.  I thought 18 was awful; almost looked like he built the hole then thought "oh crap" I forgot to put a tee box; so he put it clear on the other side of the lake.   Seemed typical of the fancy country clubs of the mid 90's; I have seen it before.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Sure Mac - anytime.

Andy, a high single digit, gets killed for the final 1/3 of his round.
what percentage of people who play the game have an index of 10 or below?

If most top courses are too hard, why are they top courses?

[Andy Troeger]

Sure Mac - anytime.

Andy, a high single digit, gets killed for the final 1/3 of his round.
what percentage of people who play the game have an index of 10 or below?

If most top courses are too hard, why are they top courses?

Mike,
Most of it was admittedly self-inflicted towards the end. I actually thought the course was relatively playable for someone of my capability--when I hit good shots they were rewarded which isn't always the course on super-hard courses. It is a course where a poor shot can lead to a high score, but so is Pine Valley.