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Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Ross in the Penal School?
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2010, 06:49:07 AM »
This illustration is from a 1931 article written by T. Simpson in which he argued the British had a tendency toward strategic designs and Americans toward penal. Interestingly he chose Ross's 2nd hole at Inverness to illustrate the penal school. The strategic hole is from Liphook.

Anthony Fowler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Ross in the Penal School?
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2010, 10:09:15 AM »
Well it looks like one dead guy votes yes, and 1500 living ones vote no!

Tom, I agree with everything you're saying about penal vs. strategic styles, but the language can be confusing.  You should differentiate between a penal design philosophy and penal hazards.  I agree that the best holes are the ones built with a strategic philosophy and penal hazards.  In fact, I would prefer to only use the word "penal" when describing design philosophy, because we can use other words like "severe" or "penalizing" to describe a hazard that provides a significant penalty. 

The strategic courses typically have more severe hazards because they can.  If you want players to think their way around the course, you need to provide hazards worth avoiding.  On the other hand, if a penal course simply wants to dictate the proper line on every hole, it's impractical to have severe hazards lining all sides of a narrow target.

With all that being said, I think Ross designed a lot of holes in the penal school with moderate hazards awaiting a minor miss.  Virtually all Ross greens are of this type.  You hit to a small target and if you miss, you will face a difficult up-and-down.  There are rarely bailouts, safer routes, or multiple lines that you can take off the tee or on the approach.

Ed Oden

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Ross in the Penal School?
« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2010, 12:00:07 PM »
With all that being said, I think Ross designed a lot of holes in the penal school with moderate hazards awaiting a minor miss.  Virtually all Ross greens are of this type.  You hit to a small target and if you miss, you will face a difficult up-and-down.  There are rarely bailouts, safer routes, or multiple lines that you can take off the tee or on the approach.

Anthony, I don't particularly like it when folks on this site ask about someone else's experience because it often implies that their opinions should carry more weight than those of the person being questioned due to a larger course sampling.  So please don't take this in that vein since I am not questioning either your experience or opinions.  But I am interested in which Ross courses you are basing your opinions on because they sound so different from those that I have played.  None of the statements above are reflective of my experiences on Ross courses, other than on isolated holes.  From what I have seen, the opposite is more like the case.  Thanks in advance!

Ed

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Ross in the Penal School?
« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2010, 12:26:29 PM »
Tom M...great diagrams.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

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