[John Mayhugh]

This doesn’t mean that I believe OM is a better course than NGLA (it’s not). 

John

I know of your passion for NGLA - what makes it "better" for you ?

Architecturally, I think NGLA's Alps, Redan, Short, Bottle, Leven, & Punchbowl holes are all better than the ones at Old Macdonald.  The first at NGLA is also a real favorite of mine.  Some holes at OM are better - Eden, Sahara, possibly Hog's Back(if I got to play it downwind) and many others are comparable in quality. I've refrained thus far from doing a hole by hole match play between the two courses, but just hole number by hole number a quick count has NGLA winning 4 & 2.

The experience of playing the two courses does feel quite similar, especially if Mike Keiser follows my suggestion and makes gingersnaps & peanut butter available at the turn house.    

[John Mayhugh]

This was great fun to read John.  Thanks for taking the time to post what you really thought.  So, what's it like knowing that, after all these years, CBM is alive and well and living out his days in Bandon, Oregon?  (I hope you brought your copy of Evangelist for George Bahto to sign.)

I should have followed Choi's lead and bought a copy of Evangelist while I was out there.  Instead I'm hopeful I can make it up his way and take George out to lunch sometime.  I did have a great time talking with him while at Bandon.

The spirit of what CBM wanted to accomplish is there.  This quote from Scotland's Gift (just update the 175 yard reference) fits Old Macdonald perfectly:
I try not to make the course any harder, but to make it more interesting, never forgetting that 80 per cent of the members of any golf-club cannot on an average drive more than 175 yards, so I always study to give them their way out, permitting them without having to negotiate unsurmountable difficulties to reach the green, by taking a course much as a yachtsman does against an adverse wind, by tacking.  To my mind this is a fundamental in golf-course construction.

[Scott Warren]

Great post John. That combined with all the pics I'm seeing is making me jealous as hell.

You don't sound like a man who still wishes he'd come to Dornoch instead?

[JC Jones]

The experience of playing the two courses does feel quite similar, especially if Mike Keiser follows my suggestion and makes gingersnaps & peanut butter available at the turn house.    

Seminole has gingersnaps and peanut butter at the halfway house too.  Perhaps this is the recipe for success above anything else!

[Mike Nuzzo]

a very good article Brad
Congratulations on your involvement

I hope you'll write some additional stories about your experiences

[Terry Lavin]

"It's okay to have fun playing golf."  Mr. Mayhugh, those are words too often forgotten as we play golf.  It is a GAME after all.  There's nothing wrong with getting better.  There's nothing wrong with trying to score better.  There's nothing wrong with respecting a course that beats you down from time to time.  But there's a lot to be said about having fun on the golf course.  I played Dunes Club yesterday with a friend and his son who were in from San Francisco.  They were enthralled.  "This is like a dream," the dad said on several occasions, which should provoke some validation in Mike Keiser.  But they also had fun.  We played 27 and if I didn't have to drive back to the city (75 minutes away) we would have played another nine, because we were having fun, not because we were killing the course and despite the fact that the course was pushing us around a little bit.  We kept PLAYING because it was FUN.

Bandon Dunes is a place that inspires people because it is visually exciting, but mostly because it is FUN TO PLAY.  Old Mac is like a big bright cherry on top of a lovely cake.  What a spectacular place!

[PCCraig]

Brad:

I read your article this morning in GW at the gym. Great read...couple it with all the glowing reviews coming in my GCAers it's hard not to start looking into heading out there asap.

I've been loving all the reviews (John's above is the best I've read on here) and photos.

[John Mayhugh]

Great post John. That combined with all the pics I'm seeing is making me jealous as hell.

You don't sound like a man who still wishes he'd come to Dornoch instead?

No regrets, especially as the opening day experience was outstanding.

Now that the course has been through three full days of play, I'm wondering if anyone has bested our 54 hole day yet.

[Tim Bert]

Great post John. That combined with all the pics I'm seeing is making me jealous as hell.

You don't sound like a man who still wishes he'd come to Dornoch instead?

No regrets, especially as the opening day experience was outstanding.

Now that the course has been through three full days of play, I'm wondering if anyone has bested our 54 hole day yet.

With the rain that fell on Wednesday it would be impressive if anyone had the heart to do 54 at Old Mac that day.  I think they were expecting heavy rain for the remainder of the week and maybe the weekend.  I think 54 might stand for a week.  Although there are people out there throwing around loosely that they played 57 on Opening Day... conveniently not mentioning that 18 of those holes happened on a different course!

[Richard Choi]

It is still 57 holes played!!! And the other 18 was at a course with a tougher walk, no less.

[Tim Bert]

It is still 57 holes played!!! And the other 18 was at a course with a tougher walk, no less.

Played by a man lacking the vision to claim an afternoon tee time on a wide open tee sheet 14 months in advance...

I've got an idea.  Let's be the only people to play Bandon Trails on Opening Day for Old Mac.  Genius!   

[Richard Choi]

In my best Shatner voice...

B-E-R-T !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[John Mayhugh]

We started at 6:40 AM and wrapped up 54 holes by a little after 9 PM.  Tim had a planned lunch (and potential slow play) break in there between the first and second rounds.  Each round took about 4:15.  The final round of foursomes was the only one where we really had to wait. 

Pace of play for an opening day was very good.

[Brad Klein]

Jim Colton, thanks for the inquiry.

While I was involved (and donated my fee away to charities approved by Golfweek), the course will be eligible for the ballot, just as with another course where I was involved and volunteered my time, the Pete Dye/Tim Liddy-designed Wintonbury Hills Municipal GC in my hometown of Bloomfield, Ct. Old Macdonald is a Doak/Urbina design and it will be judged on that basis.

I've now developed a PowerPoint talk i give on the lecture circuit about Old Macodnald and the entire desiogn process of what really happens when you see the entire thing unfold from A to Z. Among the slides is one detailing the lessons of such a project, as follows:

1. Make it fun to play
2. Don’t worry about architecture junkies
3. Scratch golfers don’t pay the bills
4. Interesting greens and plenty of width
5. Each course a distinct identity
6. Ask questions, listen, ask more questions
7. Virtue in collaboration

[Scott Weersing]

Jim Colton, thanks for the inquiry.

While I was involved (and donated my fee away to charities approved by Golfweek), the course will be eligible for the ballot, just as with another course where I was involved and volunteered my time, the Pete Dye/Tim Liddy-designed Wintonbury Hills Municipal GC in my hometown of Bloomfield, Ct. Old Macdonald is a Doak/Urbina design and it will be judged on that basis.

I've now developed a PowerPoint talk i give on the lecture circuit about Old Macodnald and the entire desiogn process of what really happens when you see the entire thing unfold from A to Z. Among the slides is one detailing the lessons of such a project, as follows:

1. Make it fun to play
2. Don’t worry about architecture junkies
3. Scratch golfers don’t pay the bills
4. Interesting greens and plenty of width
5. Each course a distinct identity
6. Ask questions, listen, ask more questions
7. Virtue in collaboration

Can you share a little more about no. 2. What were your worries? I thought you would worry more about regular golfers not understanding large greens.

But all the other points make sense as to why the course will be enjoyed. I think Rustic Canyon is also fun to play and has many of the characteristics in your list.

[Richard Choi]

Yes, that #2 hits little close to home

[Brad Klein]

Richard, the reason it hits home is that during the early talks and subsequent walk-through discussions we all knew that GCAers would scrutinize it, but tongue-in-cheek and with all due respect the idea wasn't to worry about what they would say but to make the golf course engaging and interesting, not academic and esoteric.

[Jim Colton]

Jim Colton, thanks for the inquiry.

While I was involved (and donated my fee away to charities approved by Golfweek), the course will be eligible for the ballot, just as with another course where I was involved and volunteered my time, the Pete Dye/Tim Liddy-designed Wintonbury Hills Municipal GC in my hometown of Bloomfield, Ct. Old Macdonald is a Doak/Urbina design and it will be judged on that basis.

I've now developed a PowerPoint talk i give on the lecture circuit about Old Macodnald and the entire desiogn process of what really happens when you see the entire thing unfold from A to Z. Among the slides is one detailing the lessons of such a project, as follows:

1. Make it fun to play
2. Don’t worry about architecture junkies
3. Scratch golfers don’t pay the bills
4. Interesting greens and plenty of width
5. Each course a distinct identity
6. Ask questions, listen, ask more questions
7. Virtue in collaboration

Thanks Brad. For the record, I was merely asking the question and hope it didn't come across as stating that it shouldn't be in included in the rankings. I trust that you are professional enough to keep the two roles separate and maintain the integrity of the ratings process. I can't wait to see how high it comes in on the modern list. And considering many of these architecture junkies are also GW raters, maybe you should care about what they think!

[Brad Klein]

Jim,

To Doak & Urbina's credit, there was never any discussion about "ratings" or "raters." Everyone knew the job was to be creative and free and open, and they were masters at making that site work. If raters like it, great. More important was always whether everyday golfers would enjoy it and find it compelling.

Pandering to raters or worrying about they think is a dead end.

[Don_Mahaffey]

J1. Make it fun to play
2. Don’t worry about architecture junkies
3. Scratch golfers don’t pay the bills
4. Interesting greens and plenty of width
5. Each course a distinct identity
6. Ask questions, listen, ask more questions
7. Virtue in collaboration

Wow, make it fun, don’t allow architect junkies and scratch players to influence design decisions and build a course with width and interesting greens. And even collaborate with those your working with.

Revolutionary

PS…I can’t wait to see OM, but I have a feeling it’s a bit more about the designers/builders/caretakers and their talents then a simple check list.

[Adam Clayman]

creative and free and open, and they were masters at making that site work.

Excellent choice of words, since "open and free", inherit in any design, leads to the fun, and being a creative shot maker, on the golf course, which is compelling.

[Paul Richards]

I was very impressed with Old Macdonald.  It would not surprise me one bit that this becomes the 'favorite' golf course at Bandon Dunes, surpassing Pacific Dunes, which everyone seems to feel 'was' the best.

In my book, the four courses are all spectacular and make my list of best personal Modern golf courses.

To rank them, however, would be like having someone ask you if you would like:
1 $1,000,000 in cash
2 $1,000,001 in cash
3 $1,000,002 in cash
4 $1,000,003 in cash

in each case, the answer is 'yes' and I wouldn't gripe about taking any of them!

[Kyle Henderson]

I was very impressed with Old Macdonald.  It would not surprise me one bit that this becomes the 'favorite' golf course at Bandon Dunes, surpassing Pacific Dunes, which everyone seems to feel 'was' the best.

In my book, the four courses are all spectacular and make my list of best personal Modern golf courses.

To rank them, however, would be like having someone ask you if you would like:
1 $1,000,000 in cash
2 $1,000,001 in cash
3 $1,000,002 in cash
4 $1,000,003 in cash

in each case, the answer is 'yes' and I wouldn't gripe about taking any of them!

I might gripe, depending upon what I had to do to "earn" said cash...

[Patrick_Mucci]

http://www.golfweek.com/news/2010/jun/01/behind-scenes-bandons-old-macdonald/

For a partial explanation of how Old Macdonald came about, here's my column with photos from last week's Golfweek. It's a Doak-Urbina design/routing, but Geortge Bahto, Karol Olson and myself had the opportunity to have some input. Bahto did the bulk of the consulting work, even traveling with Doak to the UK to see original holes that Macdonald was inspired by. In any case, I thought that with all the attention on the course and its opening this week it could not hurt to have additional material. (Brad Klein)

Brad,

Do you think you'll ever do a book chronicling OM, concept to finished product ?

Similar to "Miracle on Breeze Hill" or "Building Sebonack" ?

[Brad Klein]

Steve Goodwin's book, "Bandon Dreams," already has a wonderful chapter on the making of Old Macdonald in the new, expanded edition. I did not take careful notes other than preserve an early memo on the subject that I quoted in my Golfweek column. I'll save my version of the process for PowerPoint talks and for the chapter on post-modernism in my opus/textbook/definitive history of golf course architecture.

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