[Stan Dodd]

The smile on the Mona Lisa is crooked.

[Stan Dodd]

Re # 7
It is a 473 yard par 4 in which the green  has a really nice canted false front, greenside bunker left and right.  A tee shot that has fairway bunkers left and another fairway bunker right.
473 par 4 , what do you want a clowns mouth and a windmill? Oh and the tee has a view to die for. Sheesh.

[James Boon]

I'm with you Stan regading 7,

Funny thing is I didn't remember the hole well from when I'd played previously, so 7 was one of the holes that really opened my eyes on this visit.

One of the minor weak points for me at Dornoch are the tee shots on 8 and 17 are over pretty flat ground to a drop off below, and not that inspiring when standing on the tee, but the view you get when you approach the drop offs and the approach shot you need to make, especially on 17, are great stuff!

Cheers,

James

[Niall C]

Marty

Interesting that our transatlantic cousins have gone for number 6 because it doesn't have a view. I take Brads point about the soil maybe not as good as below but the green contours rightly make it a good hole and a tricky one to play. I'm going to guess that no. 6 isn't one of your two ugly sisters proving that Scots don't necessarily look at the mantlepiece when there poking the fire if you know what I mean.

Actually, I've just reread your post stating that the other 16 are more scenic so probabaly wrong on that front. The other one I would guess might be no 18 which seems to me a bit of a slog any time I've played it.

Niall

Niall - I think you mean #7.

Correct, its always good to get your facts straight before you try to make clever comments 

Niall

[Carl Johnson]

Looking at 7 from the positive side, not as an individual hole but as part of the course, I can live with the interest the contrast provides.  I'll have to defer to others on 16, which I've only played once, and that under unsatisfactory conditions, and 17 and 18, which I have never played.

[Bill_McBride]

Looking at 7 from the positive side, not as an individual hole but as part of the course, I can live with the interest the contrast provides.  I'll have to defer to others on 16, which I've only played once, and that under unsatisfactory conditions, and 17 and 18, which I have never played.

So Carl, for you it might have literally been "the best 16 hole course in the world!"

What happened?  

[JNC Lyon]

The smile on the Mona Lisa is crooked.

Well put.

[Brent Carlson]

Re # 7
It is a 473 yard par 4 in which the green  has a really nice canted false front, greenside bunker left and right.  A tee shot that has fairway bunkers left and another fairway bunker right.
473 par 4 , what do you want a clowns mouth and a windmill? Oh and the tee has a view to die for. Sheesh.

Stan - exactly.  I thought #7 was nice because it is a testing long par 4.  There are no other 473 yard par 4s on the course, thus testing another club in the bag.  If the gorse were removed it could be better but I think it fits very well.

[JNC Lyon]

Re # 7
It is a 473 yard par 4 in which the green  has a really nice canted false front, greenside bunker left and right.  A tee shot that has fairway bunkers left and another fairway bunker right.
473 par 4 , what do you want a clowns mouth and a windmill? Oh and the tee has a view to die for. Sheesh.

Stan - exactly.  I thought #7 was nice because it is a testing long par 4.  There are no other 473 yard par 4s on the course, thus testing another club in the bag.  If the gorse were removed it could be better but I think it fits very well.

That brings up another cool thing about 7 for me: I love how the hole is enveloped in a sea of gorse.  It was pretty stunning when it was in bloom a few weeks ago.

[Bill Brightly]

Yo JNC! Aren't you supposed to be in school? 

[Steve Salmen]

It seems like 7 and 16 get the most votes.  I would think 7 is the weak link of Dornoch just because it's on the flat, high ground that is relatively featureless. 

I really like the 16th hole.  It's an excellent driving hole.  The hole naturally tapers in.  I always drove with the club that would not allow me to reach the quarry on the left.  It was not uncommon for me to play the hole either 2 iron 4 iron or 4 iron 9 iron depending on wind.  As for the approach, many here have commented on the wonderful mound that guards the 12th.   There happen to be 7 of these mounds that surround the 16th green.   Makes it interesting if you want to play a right to left shot and are somewhat hesitant.

Lifelong Dornoch man Sandy Matheson told me this was the hardest green to read on the course.  It looks relatively flat but there are subtle breaks everywhere and they are hard to see and read.

After #7, it's hard to choose a weak hole.  I would personally choose #1.  Besides the cool rolling fairway, it's short and the green is pretty flat and not that hard to read.

[JNC Lyon]

Yo JNC! Aren't you supposed to be in school? 

I got done a few weeks ago.  School never kept me from expounding on GCA anyway, as the UK GCAers will attest. 

[JNC Lyon]

It seems like 7 and 16 get the most votes.  I would think 7 is the weak link of Dornoch just because it's on the flat, high ground that is relatively featureless. 

I really like the 16th hole.  It's an excellent driving hole.  The hole naturally tapers in.  I always drove with the club that would not allow me to reach the quarry on the left.  It was not uncommon for me to play the hole either 2 iron 4 iron or 4 iron 9 iron depending on wind.  As for the approach, many here have commented on the wonderful mound that guards the 12th.   There happen to be 7 of these mounds that surround the 16th green.   Makes it interesting if you want to play a right to left shot and are somewhat hesitant.

Lifelong Dornoch man Sandy Matheson told me this was the hardest green to read on the course.  It looks relatively flat but there are subtle breaks everywhere and they are hard to see and read.

After #7, it's hard to choose a weak hole.  I would personally choose #1.  Besides the cool rolling fairway, it's short and the green is pretty flat and not that hard to read.

Steve,

I agree completely about 16.  I thought it was a very unique and strategic hole.  I hope my journalist friend from Australia can explain what he doesn't like about it.  After he registers his complaints about the hole, I will tell him that he is ungrateful for the fact that he played the hole three bloody times when I only played it once!

As for 1, I had the same thoughts as you when I stepped on the tee. 'This doesn't look like much,' I reckoned, 'just a straightforward, short par-four getaway hole.'  Once the green rejected my pitch shot second and left me with an awkward up-and-down, I reconsidered my original analysis.  The green is a wild one, especially at its back half, and it is a sign of more things to come.  The first hole was a wake-up call that Dornoch was a lot different than anything I seen in Scotland or, for that matter, anywhere else.

As an aside, the first hole at Deal had the same effect on me the first time I played, and I love the hole as a result.

[Scott Warren]

For the record, I never said I didn't like 16. Or 7 for that matter

Marty asked: "Anyone care to guess which they might be?" and I took a shot at it.

What I would say in favour of both holes is they offer something that you don't get on another hole at Dornoch.

16... I can't see the grounds for calling it weak. 7, though, didn't do much for me. Perhaps it had a stronger character before the gorse got cut back. Great green, though.

[JNC Lyon]

For the record, I never said I didn't like 16. Or 7 for that matter

Marty asked: "Anyone care to guess which they might be?" and I took a shot at it.

What I would say in favour of both holes is they offer something that you don't get on another hole at Dornoch.

16... I can't see the grounds for calling it weak. 7, though, didn't do much for me. Perhaps it had a stronger character before the gorse got cut back. Great green, though.

Well, well, well, Mr. Warren, that is a defensive defense indeed.  I am wondering why you guessed 16 right away and didn't just reject Marty's argument outright.

Your true thoughts on 16?

[Scott Warren]

For someone like me who hits a draw, I saw a real benefit for flirting with the LHS off the tee. The upslope in the fairway is not so steep as the ridge on the RHS, so you get more run, and while the second might be a bit more blind from over there, there is very little danger required to find the green, and the lie of the land assists with the running draw that seemed to me to be the smart play. If it doesn't draw then the mounds will likely ensure it isn't far from the putting surface

If you play safe and drive to the right, you're likely to have a longer second off a hook lie from an angle that has you aiming towards that hellish LHS of the green.

It combines genuine terror and stern shotmaking demands with strategy on every shot, forgiveness at the green befitting the blindness and, as has been pointed out, an ostensibly flat green that still has some work in it.

And after all that you get one of the best views in golf.

What's not to like?

[James Boon]

JNC,

I thought maybe Scott disliked 16 because of the pimples around the green? 

So we've had plenty of analysis and comments. While plenty of people are stepping up to knock 7 and 16, there has also been plenty of defense for these. I also wonder if 7 and 16 are a bit obvious as candidates for the lesser holes, and so possibly not the ones that Marty would have been thinking of? We await his enlightenment...

Cheers,

James

[Scott Warren]

I must have heard the word "pimple" used more in three days at Dornoch than in my previous 27 years on earth!

[James Boon]

I must have heard the word "pimple" used more in three days at Dornoch than in my previous 27 years on earth!

I don't think I've ever used it so much either! 

[Philip Gawith]

The 7th is certainly visually underwhelming so easy to see why it is on this list. But it is a frustrating hole because you think you should be able to par it, you are conscious that is stroke 1, but it is harder to par than you think - and that is mostly because the green is harder to hit than you might think - very well defended - and it is big and fast, so harder to hold than you think.

I think 16 is a great hole - always presents a real sense of challenge off the tee, and the approach is difficult no matter how good your drive because of the combination of blindness/depth perception challenges, combined with a very large green which is extremely easy to 3 putt. Another hole where a seemingly safe par often turns into a frustrating bogey.

[Marty Bonnar]

I purposefully left out the hole #'s in an attempt to see if there was any consensus. Turns out the 7th and 16th seem to be the holes which most people think, like me, are 'weaker' than the rest.
After 5 plays now, I am actually coming to like the 7th more. I think the green has plenty of simple interest and is decently bunkered. Sure, the fairway if built today, would probably be more roller-coastery in nature, but hey ho, there you go.
16 still leaves me a bit cold. Interesting to see how it, especially, polarises opinion. I guess you either like blind approaches or you don't. I've never played it very well, which says way more about me than it does about the golf hole!

I'd like to add a comment of special merit to 15. I LOVE it. Very modern in feel, with the opposing mounds left and right, it's a wee strategic gem.

And that 4th greensite is possibly my most favourite in the world.

FBD.

[Scott Warren]

I'm with you on the 15th, for sure.

I tried to work out a way I could fit it in my bag and take it home with me, to no avail. What a golf hole.

[Niall C]

Marty

I'm surprised you're taking issue with 16 because of a blind approach. Nearly every plateau green on the course has a degree of blindness, and theres more plateau greens at Dornoch than any other links I can think of.

Also the 16th, unlike the plateau greens allows for a running approach with no hidden hazards apart from the drop off to the left of the green which is what gives the hole a real interest.

If I was picking two it would be 5th and 17th. Plateau greens just don't float my boat, sorry.

Niall

[Gary Slatter]

Marty, looks like RD is a 17.5 hole course which makes it tied with RCD for #1 in my books.

[Sean_A]

I like the 7th green, but I don't care for the lay out of the hole - dead straight between banks of gorse.  The bunkering isn't inspired - all in all not a very Dornochish hole. 

I am skeptical of 16, but I sort of like the slippery slope left over perdition.  This hole is a keeper because it is unique - quick, name another hole like it? 

#1 is a fine starting hole - I like to ease into a game.  #17 is a no-brainer wonderful hole. 

I am surprised no-one mentioned #9.  For a hole hugging the shore it is distinctly average. 

I would also take aim at #13.  This par 3 adds nothing to the design and I hate the awkward walk involved.  This is certainly the hole I like the least at Dornoch. 

Even with a small handful of holes which are not up to much, Dornoch could never be accused of being a 16 hole course; good, bad or indifferent.

Ciao

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