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Anthony Fowler

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I have an extra ticket to the Curtis Cup Matches on Saturday, June 12.  Please e-mail (fowler@mit.edu) or PM if you're interested in joining me.  It should be an exciting event and a great chance to see the course up close in perfect conditions.

Anthony Fowler

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Re: Curtis Cup Matches -- Essex County Club -- Saturday, June 12
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2010, 11:54:21 PM »
I would also like to know if others already have tickets and are planning to be there. 

Anthony Butler

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Re: Curtis Cup Matches -- Essex County Club -- Saturday, June 12
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2010, 10:06:40 AM »
email sent:

In terms of transport, I;m in Concord. which is about 18 miles south on 128 from Manchester by the Sea.

arb:
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Ronald Montesano

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Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Chris Buie

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Re: Curtis Cup Matches -- Essex County Club -- Saturday, June 12
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2010, 01:21:17 PM »
The Golf Channel is going to broadcast it tonight from 2am-4am (DVR territory) and from 11am-1pm EST on Friday and Saturday. There is a re-broadcast at 2am on those days as well.


http://www.thegolfchannel.com/scripts/program_grid.aspx
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 01:27:26 PM by Chris Buie »

Tim Martin

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Re: Curtis Cup Matches -- Essex County Club -- Saturday, June 12
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2010, 06:27:21 PM »
The real winner of these matches has already been decided and it is the golf course. I was awe struck at the quality of this course. I walked the outward nine right down the middle of every fairway as the last group was already on 10 by the time I got there and caught up. It is a great mix of holes with a number of dramatic shots on this most interesting property. This course puts a premium on the tee shot and if you do find the fairways the fun is just beginning. My favorite holes were # 8 with the two tiered fairway and the short 4 #17. Don`t get me wrong-I loved them all. :)

Tom_Doak

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Re: Curtis Cup Matches -- Essex County Club -- Saturday, June 12
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2010, 11:33:50 PM »
Anthony:

You should look for my associate Bruce Hepner while you're there ... he has been consulting at Essex for years and is attending the Curtis Cup this week, to pull even with Jim who got to watch it at Pacific Dunes four years ago.

That 14th green at Essex was actually built by Jim and me; we had to move it away from the boundary after the neighbor across the road sued the club.

Tim Martin

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Re: Curtis Cup Matches -- Essex County Club -- Saturday, June 12
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2010, 04:27:54 PM »
Tom-Great job on 14 green. It looks like it has been there forever. I wonder what your feelings are on 10 as it might be the toughest tee shot on the course with very little room for the left to right player to get it in play.

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Curtis Cup Matches -- Essex County Club -- Saturday, June 12
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2010, 06:00:34 PM »
Six-Nil today...strong finishes by all six USA pairs.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Anthony Fowler

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Re: Curtis Cup Matches -- Essex County Club -- Saturday, June 12
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2010, 04:48:14 PM »
Tim, I agree with your assessment of 14.  I would have never guessed that this green was newer than the others.

However, on the 10th, I'm not sure why you think it's such a difficult tee shot.  It looks visually intimidating from the fairway, but there's a lot more room on the right than you think.  It actually seems like one of the widest fairways on the course, even though you wouldn't guess it from the tee box.


Martin Del Vecchio

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Re: Curtis Cup Matches -- Essex County Club -- Saturday, June 12
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2010, 07:49:48 PM »
Tom-Great job on 14 green. It looks like it has been there forever. I wonder what your feelings are on 10 as it might be the toughest tee shot on the course with very little room for the left to right player to get it in play.
Word.  I played it shortly after the change.  I didn't know which hole was affected, and when I played, I couldn't figure it out.

There is more to the story then "a neighbor sued the club."  I am not an authority, but it goes something like this:  club member owns the house and puts it on the market.  Buyer asks, "hey, do you get many golf balls in your yard?"  Seller says, "no, hardly any at all."  Buyer moves in, and is inundated with golf balls, to the point where the yard is not usable during golf season.

If anybody has better information (i.e., more accurate information, not more sensational), I'd love to be corrected.

Anthony Butler

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Re: Curtis Cup Matches -- Essex County Club -- Saturday, June 12
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2010, 12:55:16 AM »
Anthony:

You should look for my associate Bruce Hepner while you're there ... he has been consulting at Essex for years and is attending the Curtis Cup this week, to pull even with Jim who got to watch it at Pacific Dunes four years ago.

That 14th green at Essex was actually built by Jim and me; we had to move it away from the boundary after the neighbor across the road sued the club.

Approaching the 14th green it almost looks like a shallow Biarritz. The slopes appear a little softer when you look at it side on. Was it intentional to give the green this look as you stand on the tee? Kind of an anti-Ross green right in front of his old house.

The holes (11-14) go around the hill and skirt the edge of the property on the back nine remind me of how Ross fit the holes right up to the edge of the property at Winchester CC, a course he built after Essex.
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Pete Lavallee

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Re: Curtis Cup Matches -- Essex County Club -- Saturday, June 12
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2010, 10:50:02 AM »
I thought the golf course looked and played great; with some reallly good contours around the greens themselves. However, I was really dissapointed that the 3" greenside rough completely negated these intricate contours. I would have much rather seen these gals try to improvise a shot after their ball trundled away instead of hacking out just a few feet off the green. Am I alone in this assessment? Why does this fine golf course need choking rough just off the green? I agree with the long fescue well off the fairway and the occasional finger of it protruding into the fairway. Would the same people who approve of this maintenance philosophy like to see choking greenside rough at Pinehurst #2 and Royal Dornoch too.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2010, 10:51:33 AM by Pete Lavallee »
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Anthony Fowler

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Re: Curtis Cup Matches -- Essex County Club -- Saturday, June 12
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2010, 11:38:40 AM »
Pete, I must admit that I didn't give much thought to the rough around the greens.  I thought the chip shots were very exciting despite thick rough in some places.  There are quite a few shaved run-offs around the greens at Essex in addition to the thick rough in some places.  I personally like the variety.  It would be a shame for Essex or any other Ross course to try to closely mimic Pinehurst No. 2.  To its credit, Essex has far more variety on and off the greens than No. 2.

Jeff Loh has made the same comments about the rough at The Orchards.  It would be nice to see The Orchards shave a few areas around the green (like they have off the back of 14), but I would hate to see the surrounds of every green look like No. 2.  I think the golfer would lose a lot of interesting shots as a result.

I just played Whitinsville, and they are doing an excellent job with their mowing lines.  There are great run-offs behind the 2nd and 6th greens, and expansions of the greens and fringes on several other holes.  However, the rough provides an element of variety and strategy that is not present at No. 2.

Anthony Butler

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Re: Curtis Cup Matches -- Essex County Club -- Saturday, June 12
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2010, 11:59:05 AM »
Pete, I must admit that I didn't give much thought to the rough around the greens.  I thought the chip shots were very exciting despite thick rough in some places.  There are quite a few shaved run-offs around the greens at Essex in addition to the thick rough in some places.  I personally like the variety.  It would be a shame for Essex or any other Ross course to try to closely mimic Pinehurst No. 2.  To its credit, Essex has far more variety on and off the greens than No. 2.


Because the weather conditions had negated F 'N F by Saturday, we did not see a lot of balls roll into the thick stuff. In fact the worst approach shot we saw was on the 12th where Sally Watson from the GB&I drew a slightly fluffy but pretty decent lie about 25yds from the green and proceeded to to hole the pitch shot.... I imagine it would be more of an issue for the club golfer getting into and recovering from this stuff.

Only a couple of the Americans were close to being long enough to compete in the LPGA. But just about everyone player controlled their ball well enough off the tee and into the green to avoid disaster...  GB&I lost the Curtis Cup because their putting/short games betrayed them over the last 3-4 holes to lose every match on Saturday.
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Matthew Rose

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Re: Curtis Cup Matches -- Essex County Club -- Saturday, June 12
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2010, 12:09:41 PM »
Course looks really interesting on TV.... all sorts of little corridors and twists and turns. I love how intimidating a lot of the tee shots look from the tee.
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Tom_Doak

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Re: Curtis Cup Matches -- Essex County Club -- Saturday, June 12
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2010, 12:23:22 PM »
Martin Del Vecchio:

Your story about #14 omitted the part where the potential buyer was a lawyer, and sued the CLUB over safety issues on something which had been in place 95 years.  He did not sue the former owner for misrepresenting the situation.  The green was, in fact, very close to the road and probably needed to be moved, but the property buyer may also have been seeking to make a buck out of the deal.

Anthony B:

The new green is sort of a watered-down version of the old green, which was really something.  Bruce reports that they had the hole tucked on the front right for one of the competition days and it gave the players fits.


Anthony Butler

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Re: Curtis Cup Matches -- Essex County Club -- Saturday, June 12
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2010, 12:55:43 PM »
Martin Del Vecchio:

Your story about #14 omitted the part where the potential buyer was a lawyer, and sued the CLUB over safety issues on something which had been in place 95 years.  He did not sue the former owner for misrepresenting the situation.  The green was, in fact, very close to the road and probably needed to be moved, but the property buyer may also have been seeking to make a buck out of the deal.

Anthony B:

The new green is sort of a watered-down version of the old green, which was really something.  Bruce reports that they had the hole tucked on the front right for one of the competition days and it gave the players fits.

Tom,

They had it front right for the foursomes on Saturday afternoon. You are correct in that no one seemed to be able to find that part of the green. Mostly because they were using 4-6 irons and would have to bounce it through the fringe to stay on the front.

Pin location was in the swale on Sunday for the singles.
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Brad Tufts

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Re: Curtis Cup Matches -- Essex County Club -- Saturday, June 12
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2010, 03:51:00 PM »
I think 14 was a vast improvement because it strengthened the course.  Yeah, the original green was neat (it's still there under some long grass, even though it has or had a 20-foot maple planted in the middle of it) and felt very old, but the punchbowl green was much easier and the shot was shorter (145 I think v. the current 170) than the new green. 

I've played ECC many times (50+ maybe), and since many of my rounds have been in tournaments, I've seen the front right pin location pretty often.  Playing partners have had lots of trouble with the slope on the right next to that location, and the putts from the other side of the green are treacherous.  I wouldn't call it an anti-Ross green, but I might say its inspiration might be an advanced Ross style of push-up.  Ross started with ground level greens at Pinehurst and slowly they morphed into the push-up style.  Perhaps if Ross stayed as the pro/tinkering GCA at Essex like he did at Pinehurst, he would have tinkered several greens into something like Tom and Bruce's 14 at ECC today.

Martin (how's it going?)....Tom has the story pretty correct about the guy across the street.  The way I heard it was that the whole thing started pretty close to the first few golf balls crossing the road (as opposed to all the time), which indicated that the new homeowner was out for cash.  The subsequent entertaining rumor was that a few years after the suit was done and the new hole was built, the guy ended up in jail for tax evasion or embezzlement of some sort...

My favorite hole at Essex is 16, a 430 par 4.  The tee shot is a bit non-descript, but the approach is something all lovers of architectural angles would die for.  There is a diagonal sandy waste area with a high lip that might be an acre in size.  One can only see the top of the flag, and the green is at exactly ground level, so you have to figure where the pin is, play the correct angle across the waste area, and hope your ball bounces and stops somewhere on the large green.  There is a funny small bathtub feature just off the back left much like the one on #3 green, but smaller and more annoying if you end up in it.  The green looks dead flat when there are three long parallel ridges (parallel to the line of play) maybe 1-2 inches high.  I never figured this out until I played #16 in the low setting sun one night, and I felt like I had opened a treasure chest...
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Brad Tufts

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Re: Curtis Cup Matches -- Essex County Club -- Saturday, June 12
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2010, 04:02:37 PM »
If you haven't seen it...http://www.golfweek.com/news/2010/jun/07/tradition-strategy-abound-curtis-cup-venue/

Good article by Brad....one discussion point, on this paragraph:

"On the 328-yard, par-4 17th, the hole climbs uphill some 130 feet to a green that seems suspended in the sky. The landing area for the drive is divided by a big knoll. While the left side is more receptive and provides a better line to the green, that line off the tee is awkward and demands stern commitment."

I would say the left side of the fairway is more receptive, but has a more difficult angle.  The right side is awkward to hit, especially because of a 5-foot tall mound throwing shots in all directions, but offers the straight on view, and potentially a look at the top of the flag.  It is definately sound architectural strategy.  The extra inside knowledge is that if you are past the mound off the tee, you don't need to add any yardage on the approach even though the green is about 30 feet above you!

So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Anthony Butler

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Re: Curtis Cup Matches -- Essex County Club -- Saturday, June 12
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2010, 06:16:23 PM »

My favorite hole at Essex is 16, a 430 par 4.  The tee shot is a bit non-descript, but the approach is something all lovers of architectural angles would die for.  There is a diagonal sandy waste area with a high lip that might be an acre in size.  One can only see the top of the flag, and the green is at exactly ground level, so you have to figure where the pin is, play the correct angle across the waste area, and hope your ball bounces and stops somewhere on the large green.  There is a funny small bathtub feature just off the back left much like the one on #3 green, but smaller and more annoying if you end up in it.  The green looks dead flat when there are three long parallel ridges (parallel to the line of play) maybe 1-2 inches high.  I never figured this out until I played #16 in the low setting sun one night, and I felt like I had opened a treasure chest...
The back 9 looked really interesting especially the approach on 16. From the fairway, it's hard to judge how much turf lies between the waste area and the green. (A lot depending on the angle.) I played the front nine before a wedding at ECC a few years ago. The host said we'd be too tired for dancing if we played the back... he may have been right as 17 is mini mountain. No more invites forthcoming since however... ;-)
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Carl Nichols

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Re: Curtis Cup Matches -- Essex County Club -- Saturday, June 12
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2010, 06:52:03 PM »
Is Essex generally considered the best course on the North Shore? 

Tim Martin

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Re: Curtis Cup Matches -- Essex County Club -- Saturday, June 12
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2010, 06:59:23 PM »
Myopia and Essex seem to be 1 and 2 or 2 and 1 depending on who the rater is.

Sean Leary

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Re: Curtis Cup Matches -- Essex County Club -- Saturday, June 12
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2010, 07:17:13 PM »
Myopia and Essex seem to be 1 and 2 or 2 and 1 depending on who the rater is.

Some feel Salem is better than both...

Dan Herrmann

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Re: Curtis Cup Matches -- Essex County Club -- Saturday, June 12
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2010, 08:18:56 PM »
Watched it on TV, and I'll give it a "TV 10" rating.  I was blown away - great looking course.

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