[Mike Sweeney]

If Anthony Fowler is reflective of the future of golf. I had the privilege of playing  with Anthony Fowler today with two friends at The Orchards in Western Massachusetts. Anthony played golf at MIT and is now in a PhD program at MIT. Back in my glory days at Boston College, Cambridge was only a place to do Scorpion Bowls at Hong Kong:



http://www.hongkongharvard.com/about.html

I think sometimes we get lost around here with “the old days” “old dead guys” and similar concepts. I have hosted and played with a bunch of guys around here and Anthony is an example of why the game is great. Good shots, bad shots, friends, chili  and beers on the porch of The Orchards.

Old guys, middle age guys reach out to our younger playing partners.

Cheers.



Anthony

Sorry to embarrass you, but I did use your advice about college recruiting this evening at the dinner table with my son. Thanks

[Mike Cirba]

Mike,

With all due respect to Anthony, who I'm sure is a great kid and very intelligent....the (future of the) game will be okay when Luis, Huang, Pedro, Tyrone, Nikolai, Phong, Rakesh, Zakarya, and Motumbo are able to afford it and embrace it.

The demographics don't support any other conclusion, and they and others of their ethnic background(s) are the coming working middle-class in this country, as well as most of western Europe, unless you're talking about the 1915 version of the game, where golf is played among a few elite clubs in toney sections of upper-class bastions of priviilege and exclusivity.

[Matt Langan]

"I think sometimes we get lost around here with “the old days” “old dead guys” and similar concepts. I have hosted and played with a bunch of guys around here and Anthony is an example of why the game is great. Good shots, bad shots, friends, chili  and beers on the porch of The Orchards. "

-I couldn't agree more - golf is as much about how you play as how you react and how you enjoy yourself before, during, and after the round.

[John Moore II]

Mike Cirbe-You make a good point, but how do we go about getting these people involved in the game? Certainly there are options such as public financing available to get cheap golf to the masses, but the land must be available and such. The is the problem, how do you make golf available to these demographics, not only from a cost point of view but from a general access standpoint. In many cases, the golf simply isn't there.

In the case of North Carolina, some of the major cities don't have municipal golf at all. Raleigh, the state capital mind you, doesn't have a muni. Greensboro does, but its Bryan Park, which is not even within Greensboro city limits and priced slightly above real muni range. Many other towns have muni's, but how accessible are they to people without car transportation, i.e using bikes, public buses, etc.? That is the real key.

But either way, golf will be OK, just have to wonder how much real growth we will see. 

[Mike Sweeney]

Mike,

With all due respect to Anthony, who I'm sure is a great kid and very intelligent....the (future of the) game will be okay when Luis, Huang, Pedro, Tyrone, Nikolai, Phong, Rakesh, Zakarya, and Motumbo are able to afford it and embrace it.

The demographics don't support any other conclusion, and they and others of their ethnic background(s) are the coming working middle-class in this country, as well as most of western Europe, unless you're talking about the 1915 version of the game, where golf is played among a few elite clubs in toney sections of upper-class bastions of priviilege and exclusivity.

Mike,

Different question, but I will bite.   Golf can follow the example of squash which has tied academics and squash together in urban squash centers in typically poor neighborhoods. In Harlem is its Street Squash, and Philly has their own program in North Philly. Reality is it gets funded by mainly rich white guys http://www.streetsquash.org/about/board/ and urban revitalization programs. There are probably a dozen of these programs throughout the country with the majority being in the Boston to DC corridor.

The next reality is that there are very few "middle class" kids playing squash, so that is a challenge for golf that is unanswered.

Tiger Woods was and probably still is the best answer to your question. Certainly he has shown limited interest beyond his two urban squash centers in Orange County and I think they are building one in DC. Those centers seem to follow the urban squash model. Tiger is coming to Philly on July 4th and you have an urban course that you want to revitalize so get him on the phone. There is always a way and just don't take no for an answer.

Anthony studies demographics and voting patterns in relation to politics, so he may have better insight to some of the questions surrounding golf in the "New America."

[JC Jones]

I'll take up one point in Mike S.'s post.

I have always appreciated playing golf with older guys.  I love the rounds with the guys from GCA that I've played and all the rounds with older guys I've played in the past.  There are so many lessons to be learned by us young guys from spending quality/relaxed time with older guys; whether it be how to play old man golf (short and down the middle) or to just get the insight from guys who have had more life experiences.  I can vividly remember lessons and stories while caddying when I was 12 years old.  There is something about being on the golf course that creates an environment for candid discussion.

Older guys, please keep reaching out and playing with younger guys, we appreciate it far more than you recognize.  And, I think that this is how the game of golf and all that it brings is best passed down to future generations.


(P.S., I write this as I creep towards "older guy" status.  Patrick Hodgdon reminds me of this, often)

[Melvyn Morrow]

Mike (S)

An interesting topic, but all stems upon our definition of Golf.

I am certain it will include your friend Anthony but I also believe that Mike also makes a very valid point with his list and I suspect many more besides.

You go on to say “I think sometimes we get lost around here with “the old days” “old dead guys” and similar concepts” However is it not down to the old days and the old dead guys that so much interest has been generated in GCA not just Golf.

Then whilst on the subject of Golf what sub-section of Golf are you referring to? Are we looking at the game as it is played worldwide or just in America perhaps even GB&I. With in that subsection are you leading with The Majors style of Golf (Walking) or that played by the majority of your fellow countrymen (using carts and aids).

I think the game will be in safe hands if we had a singular game, the basics of the rules being followed and the course etiquette being upheld by all.

I think the game will be in safe hands when it is redefined as to what game are we all playing and so enable our golf courses for once to reflect stability in design.

I think the game would be in safe hands when our Governing Bodies start to listen and  understand the feeling of the golfers whose interests they are meant to be protecting and maintaining (that’s a joke).

You go on to say “I have hosted and played with a bunch of guys around here and Anthony is an example of why the game is great. Good shots, bad shots, friends, chili and beers on the porch of The Orchards” but is that not what happens in most parts of the world (perhaps without the chilli), the friendship and enjoyment of sharing great/poor and sometimes unbelievable shots again not necessary on the porch but indoors on a cool summers evening.

I think the game of Golf will soon need to re-establish its priorities and define its core aims and objectives if it is to remain united. Or are we going to see The World Series of American Golf in America; The GB,I & EU Walking Open Series throughout Europe with the rest of the world considering to do their own thing or follow one of the others

I think the Game needs direction and a consistent stewardship inspired by the golfers, certainly not the officials or pros. With that we may again see a Second or is that a Third Golden Age of Golf Course Architecture based upon a uniformity of design.

Alas IMHO we will never see this third Golden Age as our officials see themselves as the Master of Golf and believe they have all the answers – i.e. do as little as you need to and do not detract from counting the money first. All for One and One for All, well as long as all the money goes to the Governing Bodies and their associates.

So I wish Anthony, Luis, Huang, Pedro, Tyrone, Nikolai, Phong, Rakesh, Zakarya, Motumbo and all the others the best for the future. They may well be the ones in their old age that finally has to sort out the mess. Or perhaps you just do not see Golf about to enter an identity crisis due to the poor management. After the Banks should we even be surprised?

Melvyn

PS Long Live The Old Guys;
    Long Live the Memory of the Old Dead Guys;
    and Finally Long Live Traditional Golf

[PCCraig]

Mike-

LOVE the Scorpion Bowls at the Hong Kong...in fact I'm getting a hangover just thinking about them!

[JNC Lyon]

If Anthony Fowler is reflective of the future of golf. I had the privilege of playing  with Anthony Fowler today with two friends at The Orchards in Western Massachusetts. Anthony played golf at MIT and is now in a PhD program at MIT. Back in my glory days at Boston College, Cambridge was only a place to do Scorpion Bowls at Hong Kong:



http://www.hongkongharvard.com/about.html

I think sometimes we get lost around here with “the old days” “old dead guys” and similar concepts. I have hosted and played with a bunch of guys around here and Anthony is an example of why the game is great. Good shots, bad shots, friends, chili  and beers on the porch of The Orchards.

Old guys, middle age guys reach out to our younger playing partners.

Cheers.



Anthony

Sorry to embarrass you, but I did use your advice about college recruiting this evening at the dinner table with my son. Thanks

Mike,

I agree.  Are there some problems with the game today?  Yes.  However, these problems are way overblown, especially on this site.  The game only gets better and better for me.

[Mike Sweeney]

Then whilst on the subject of Golf what sub-section of Golf are you referring to? Are we looking at the game as it is played worldwide or just in America perhaps even GB&I. With in that subsection are you leading with The Majors style of Golf (Walking) or that played by the majority of your fellow countrymen (using carts and aids).

Melvyn - Yesterday on a hilly course in The Berkshires where I saw a thermometer on a bank building leaving town at 93 degrees (you can google the conversion ) our group consisted of:

1. 50 year old guy carrying his bag,
2. 40 ish woman carrying her bag,
3. 47 year old, who lost his swing, carrying his bag,
4. mid twenties guy carrying his bag

There were no carts, no aids used other than sprinkler heads. After the round there was lots of talk about Scottish architect Donald Ross and what he did or did not do.

If I was at my club in Ireland, I am sure the same was going on yesterday with only the need to replace the name of Ross with Hackett.

Melvyn, you choose to focus on the problems with golf and I will continue to focus in on what is right with golf. I only ask that you continue your journey on a different thread.

Thanks

[PCCraig]

I know the game will be OK when I see a foursome of young junior golfers on a spring afternoon playing a twilight 18.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Mike

That’s the normal sick story these days, don't like what is said, don't want to consider it even if is related to your thread, so you ask me to bugger off.

You think the game of Golf will be OK, well over the last 50 years of the game its has IMHO suffered, the courses have been compromised which reflects upon the Game. The attitude even on this site to the Rules is poor, some using them when they want to otherwise ignoring them - not my comment but posted by many over the last few years. So you started the topic "I think the Game will be OK" but you forgot to state that anyone not agreeing with you should F*#k Off. Wow and you think Golf will be OK

I'll leave you to your idea of freedom of speech and the right to express ones opinion on a forum like GCA.com.

Melvyn

PS Mike enjoy your moment of being Nero fiddling while Rome burns

[Mike Sweeney]

That’s the normal sick story these days, don't like what is said, don't want to consider it even if is related to your thread, so you ask me to bugger off.

Mel,

If I was clever enough technically to replace "my parents" with "Old Tom", I would.



Melvyn,

You try change the world, and I like to make my little piece of the world better. Different strategies, and obviously I like mine better. The point of this thread was indirectly to follow in the good steps laid out to me by Bob Huntley. I had wanted to play Cypress Point for probably 25 years. Magically, a gentleman on GCA reached out to me and I did indeed play Cypress Point. Bob has probably hosted or arranged for hundreds of people to play golf in unique places around the world. I now consider Bob a good friend, and he is lucky in that there are probably dozens if not hundreds who think of him that way.

Now I am not as worldly as Bob, but I try to follow Bob's path in life. I have hosted or arraigned in a variety of forms for a numbers of guys and even girls to play golf at some unique places. Anthony is a special kid, and I was the one who got more from our meeting than he did from me.

Thus, the point of this thread is to get old guys like you to reach out to young guys (maybe even Pat Craig  ) with an olive branch rather than a session in detention. It's your choice Melvyn, I have already made mine.

[John Foley]

Mike,

Scorpion Bowls at the Hong Kong - those are very painful memories & ones I would have never have thought to see brought up on GCA!

Melvyn,

The diatribe is old & worn out. You have tremndous value to add about GCA on this site on OTM & such but the constant bickering about it's not the game of old is just so ridiculous. Times change, technology improves us. If you want to yearn for the good old days - more power to you & best of luck. Just don't be the constant noise which causes headache's.

Be positive & contributing or be gone.

[Jim_Kennedy]

As with all other things, you gotta watch out for the backwashers.

[JNC Lyon]

Mike,

Scorpion Bowls at the Hong Kong - those are very painful memories & ones I would have never have thought to see brought up on GCA!

Melvyn,

The diatribe is old & worn out. You have tremndous value to add about GCA on this site on OTM & such but the constant bickering about it's not the game of old is just so ridiculous. Times change, technology improves us. If you want to yearn for the good old days - more power to you & best of luck. Just don't be the constant noise which causes headache's.

Be positive & contributing or be gone.

John, I agree 100 percent.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike,

With all due respect to Anthony, who I'm sure is a great kid and very intelligent....the (future of the) game will be okay when Luis, Huang, Pedro, Tyrone, Nikolai, Phong, Rakesh, Zakarya, and Motumbo are able to afford it and embrace it.

Mike, that's sheer nonsense.
The game has an inherent lure that either appeals to you or it doesn't.
Please stop the politically correct horseshit.

Are there those, across the pond, worried about broadening the range of participants in the game of cricket, soccer or rugby in the U.S.

Games, including golf, tend to have an elastic quality, with their popularity shrinking and expanding at different times for different reasons, although, I'd imagine that in times of prosperity, games and leisure activities tend to expand, while in bad times they tend to contract.

It matters not, to me, if golf shrinks, expands or remains static, my love of the game and my love for playing the game will remain the same.
Only my ability to play the game will diminish.

Golf is a game, a leisure activity, a hobby and a luxury, like skiing, tennis, rugby, bowling, surfing and other pursuits.
Golf's future, and the future of those other sports isn't dependent on some idiotically forced and orchestrated eqalitarian formula.
   

The demographics don't support any other conclusion, and they and others of their ethnic background(s) are the coming working middle-class in this country, as well as most of western Europe, unless you're talking about the 1915 version of the game, where golf is played among a few elite clubs in toney sections of upper-class bastions of priviilege and exclusivity.

[Tim Martin]

I'll take up one point in Mike S.'s post.

I have always appreciated playing golf with older guys.  I love the rounds with the guys from GCA that I've played and all the rounds with older guys I've played in the past.  There are so many lessons to be learned by us young guys from spending quality/relaxed time with older guys; whether it be how to play old man golf (short and down the middle) or to just get the insight from guys who have had more life experiences.  I can vividly remember lessons and stories while caddying when I was 12 years old.  There is something about being on the golf course that creates an environment for candid discussion.

Older guys, please keep reaching out and playing with younger guys, we appreciate it far more than you recognize.  And, I think that this is how the game of golf and all that it brings is best passed down to future generations.


(P.S., I write this as I creep towards "older guy" status.  Patrick Hodgdon reminds me of this, often)

JC- When I read a post like yours I think the game will be okay. I have learned much through the game of golf from "older guys" about golf and life. When I was in my mid twenties I was given a piece of advice from a club member in his early eighties that has served me well.  He said "always be kind to the old guys because some day you too will be old". Now that I am in my fifties that advice is ever more important. Seems to me that a guy like JC Jones is the future of the game.

[Mike Sweeney]

Seems to me that a guy like JC Jones is the future of the game.

Tim,

JC is no young guy. He has more kids than complaints about Florida golf. 

It was a young guys weekend for sure with Ishikawa and now McIlroy:

http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=5155581

[JC Jones]

Seems to me that a guy like JC Jones is the future of the game.

Tim,

JC is no young guy. He has more kids than complaints about Florida golf. 

It was a young guys weekend for sure with Ishikawa and now McIlroy:

http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=5155581

At 30, I make you seem ancient.   

[David Lott]

"the (future of the) game will be okay when Luis, Huang, Pedro, Tyrone, Nikolai, Phong, Rakesh, Zakarya, and Motumbo are able to afford it and embrace it."

I agree with Mucci. But I color your statement pink because you do not seem to see any female names in the future. You will never succeed at PC by leaving the women out.

[Anthony Fowler]

Mike, thank you for the kind and undeserved words.  Anyone familiar with the name Donald Ross is already more fortunate than 99% of the world population, and I am no exception.  I hope that someday I will be able to repay some of the kindness paid to me by older golfers and pay it forward to the younger generations.  The world will certainly be a better place (and the game of golf will be better) when Luis, Huang, Pedro, et al. have the opportunity to play golf, eat chili on the porch, and talk about architecture. 

[Pat Burke]

Melvyn,
 Portion of your quote from above

"I think the game will be in safe hands if we had a singular game, the basics of the rules being followed and the course etiquette being upheld by all. "
I think I agree, and we work hard to introduce proper behavior on AND OFF the course to participate in our free program.

"I think the game will be in safe hands when it is redefined as to what game are we all playing and so enable our golf courses for once to reflect stability in design."
What do you mean by stability in design?

[Sean_A]

I think the game will be okay so long as the world doesn't blow up.  These threads confusing the business of golf with the game of golf don't make any sense to me.

Ciao

[Mike Sweeney]

The bottom line is that there are a lot of people out there that, for whatever reason, don't have the time for a full time CC and all the costs that go with it.

Has anybody ever considered the idea of the every-other-week club membership (during peak season)?  

My brother has been a member at Canoe Brook in NJ for years. They have some sort of a "B" membership where they can play the two courses there a couple of times a year. If he plays four times a in a year that might be a record. Canoe Brook has always been a family first club with some good but not great (in GCA terms) courses second. In is an anchor club in NJ and they will never have to look for members. It is a magnet for local families.

You are starting to see that model at other places too around NY, more and more where you can get some limited golf with a house/pool membership. The difference is Canoe Brook did it years ago because they chose to be a family first club.

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