News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


NAF

Is the 4th Green at Spyglass Goofy??
« on: February 27, 2002, 05:04:56 AM »
I was reading thru Brad Klein's Rough Meditations the other day and he labels the 4th green at Spyglass as "Goofy"..Why? because of its elongated nature and wafer thinness.  I love the book and Brad's writings but I just don't agree on this one..

I think the approach to #4 is a great shot..Being a short par 4 you have a 9iron or wedge in your hand so the wafer like quality of the green is not such a problem as you should be accurate..With the green hidden behind the dune as well I find the shot somewhat charming.  The Dell Hole's green is rather thin as well but I guess some could call that gimmicky but to most here it is endearing..

So is the 4th's green really goofy or is it kind of endearing in a way.  If you can take out the RTJ bias and if this was on an old course I think most would really like it..
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Richard_Goodale

Re: Is the 4th Green at Spyglass Goofy??
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2002, 05:09:29 AM »
Noel

You are right and Brad was wrong on this one.  We debated it a year or so ago and the consensus was that the 4th was one great golf hole.  I'm sure Brad will reconsider the exurberent excesses of his youthful writings.

Cheers

Rich
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is the 4th Green at Spyglass Goofy??
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2002, 05:22:06 AM »
It's goofy like the "unreasonable" targets presented by the greens at the 16th at North Berwick or the 13th at Prestwick or the 17th at the Old Course - such unconventional targets (that work) make the game GREAT.

Regardless, Rough Mediations is a great, great read, despite Brad's disparaging words about the 18th hole at Yale  :-[
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is the 4th Green at Spyglass Goofy??
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2002, 06:09:21 AM »
NAF:

I'm unable to play the 4th at Spyglass without imagining Mr. Jones standing there laughing.

That's my way of saying I agree with Rich.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Tim Weiman

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is the 4th Green at Spyglass Goofy??
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2002, 09:08:27 AM »
A superb hole with one fatal flaw, ice-plant. Remove the stuff and you have a hole that would reward good chipping and flop wedge shots. At the moment a monumental heave at the ball is the only option.

Some of you may be aware that it is the intention of the golf course owners to eliminate ice-plant in the forest.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

JakaB

Re: Is the 4th Green at Spyglass Goofy??
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2002, 09:11:12 AM »
I recently played Bellerive and have to say I came away seeing RTJ as a great visionary.  As a Catholic I have come to many beliefs by way of being told of the truth...and I am afraid the annointed critics of golf have blasphemed RTJ for reasons I no longer understand.  So Father Brad...forgive me for I have sinned but RTJ now sits at the right hand of the great trinity of dead architects.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

JohnV

Re: Is the 4th Green at Spyglass Goofy??
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2002, 09:26:13 AM »
Speaking of ice plant, I on a nature walk last week where the guide said that it was imported from Chile and that it was cultivated inside the hulls of sailing ships because it was a great source of Vitamin C.  Given that it is non-native to the Monterey/Santa Cruz area, I think we should all start an environmentalist/golfer coallition to erradicate it. :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is the 4th Green at Spyglass Goofy??
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2002, 10:05:15 AM »
Lampranthus spectabilis was brought to this country from South Africa. The California Department of Fish and Game together with other environmental groups have requested that the plant be eliminated in the Del Monte Forest. Any golf course development will not be allowed to commence without eradication porocedures in hand.

It's a pity in a way because it is very attractive when in flower and the deer like it.

Golfers hate it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Ben Cowan-Dewar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is the 4th Green at Spyglass Goofy??
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2002, 10:05:38 AM »
I am in agreement here.  One of the people who I played it with last week called it silly, mind you they approached from the left side of the fairway.  I have a feeling that if people play the hole out to the right leaving the right line into the hole they have a better sense of why the hole is great.  Though in watching this person play from the left, I got an even better sense of what made it great.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Gib_Papazian

Re: Is the 4th Green at Spyglass Goofy??
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2002, 10:37:05 AM »
Brad doesn't like the hole because he hits a balloon cut with his short irons ;)

When he gets that 6-iron knock down runner working, he'll agree with me that it is one of the best par-4s on the planet.

The iceplant is a bit obnoxious, but it gives the perimeter of the hole so much color and texture I would hate to see it completely eradicated.

One key feature of the hole that gets little discussion is that annoying little bunker at the bottom of the green. Hit your tee shot in the wrong spot with the pin on the bottom tier and that bunker makes the approach all the twitchier.      
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Peter Galea

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is the 4th Green at Spyglass Goofy??
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2002, 12:11:23 PM »
Bob, Gib and others, do you remember in the early 80's when that green was surrounded by pampasgrass? I was playing there with a good friend who hit it into the pampas left of the green, it lodged about 3 1/2 feet above the ground. He says, "I can hit it!" Four baseball swings later the ball is never to be seen again, buried in the base. He walks off the green in disgust saying, "If I was the superintendent here the first thing I would do is get rid of every last piece of that stuff!" (he actually used words that are unprintable here).
What do you know, 2 years later he gets the job! Calls me up for a round the first week. When we get to four green, after removing the flowers, he's got 3 men with weedeaters fitted with blades cutting it down to the dirt. Pamapas is flying everywhere, he turned to me and gave me a sly smile. True story.  
As an aside, pamapasgrass is the number one weed problem in California. Each feathery flower can have 100,000 seeds, most mature plants have have up to 10 flower stalks, potentially 1,000,000 new plants from each parent!
Ice plant is a close 2nd. At the Fort Ord base they use the "burrito method" of removal. Several people start on one side and roll up the mat just like a burrito! Very difficult to control chemically because of the waxy surface. It is also dirty, collecting in it's fingers anything that passes by. Cups, papers, etc.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"chief sherpa"

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is the 4th Green at Spyglass Goofy??
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2002, 12:35:20 PM »
I haven't played the hole since 1978, and don't remember either pampas grass or ice plant, although there was a lot of ice plant on those first holes in the dunes.  Ben Dewar has it exactly right, it is really important to keep the tee ball right side or else iron shots from the left or even center can bounce all over the place off that "buried elephant" mound in the middle of the green.  I thought Spyglass was fun until we got into that slog of long par 4's back up in the woods!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Is the 4th Green at Spyglass Goofy??
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2002, 05:14:16 PM »
NAF,

I'm with you.

I think it is a terrific hole.

What would Brad recommend as an alternative ?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

GeoffreyC

Re: Is the 4th Green at Spyglass Goofy??
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2002, 06:21:39 PM »
The 4th is my favorite hole at Spyglass. Its one of those unforgetable holes that combine challenge, fun and unique properties.  I've four putted that green  :(, been in the iceplant  >:( and made birdie  ;D.  I can recall each shot and that's one way to measure a memorable golf hole.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

A_Clay_Man

Re: Is the 4th Green at Spyglass Goofy??
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2002, 03:48:57 PM »
There is no doubt that it is a great hole. I think its funny Brad used the same word to describe the green as my friend Eddy did. Goofy. He went on to say he didnt think it fair. I assume anything we both have to deal with is fair.

The greatest shot I ever saw came from the leftside. From about 120 yds out (fifty left of the fairway) a young man named Adam was second to hit and he  trickled it out of the Ice plant long for a deuce. No it wasnt me it was a namesake.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

John_D._Bernhardt

Re: Is the 4th Green at Spyglass Goofy??
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2002, 03:50:47 PM »
It is one of the great holes and greens in golf. I love that hole and have taken a few beers out there in the late afternoon and hit 50 balls from 125 to 165 out. what a way to watch the sun go down. Chipping and working on the short game there is great fun too.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Matt_Ward

Re: Is the 4th Green at Spyglass Goofy??
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2002, 04:30:42 PM »
Leave it as is.

If people are criping about the hole I suggest a little more practice may be in definite order. ;D

I only wish Spyglass had more holes of this type.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is the 4th Green at Spyglass Goofy??
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2002, 07:26:42 PM »
#4 is a great par 4. Not much going on off the tee other than trying to get in perfect alignment with the green. Given that a short iron is used to approach, I think the width is fine. Fortunately I haven't visited that ice plant, but can imagine it would not be an enjoyable experience. Controlling the approach is everything into that green and given the number of ways it can be played is what makes it cool in my book.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

SGD

Re: Is the 4th Green at Spyglass Goofy??
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2002, 07:35:30 PM »
Matt Ward:

I wish ALL courses had more holes like #4 at Spyglass.  A little quirky? Yes  A lot of fun? Yes  Different options and strategies? Yes.  Great hole? You bet.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is the 4th Green at Spyglass Goofy??
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2002, 07:58:07 PM »
To those who have played this hole:

From the fairway: does the green tilt at all towards the left and back and does a bumped shot follow the contour to the back of the green?  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

A_Clay_Man

Re: Is the 4th Green at Spyglass Goofy??
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2002, 08:22:13 PM »
JK- I can tell you every inch of the green. It is a true gunsight. The mounds on both sides of the front will richochet  opposite.  But if you go too far (deep) on the left you will probably miss the jutt of the mound. The right side was always my desired approach because it is the high side and will eventually be the dominant slope which throws the ball left.If the pin is middle left than the mound on the left makes for some great imagination by you or your caddie. :o
When the pin is back the right side knoll is usually the only visual from the fairway and the is where you want the ball to trickle over the precipace and will invariably be close.

The biggest bear of a pin is the front with little or no chance of having anything but a 20 footer up a steeper hill than it looks. And in the rear the bunker has a contrary knoll eminating from it so it throws balls uphill or helps keep them straight if you don't see it.

The entire green is exactly 50 yds deep and I would always give one less club . I remeber one gentleman who actually whined because I wouldnt give him yardage to the back pin. As though he wanted to risk that narrowness and had that shot in his bag.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

kilfara

Re: Is the 4th Green at Spyglass Goofy??
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2002, 02:20:56 AM »
Why do people automatically assume that "goofy" is a derogatory term? If someone described a golf course to me as "goofy", that would make me more likely to want to see it, not less - and I reckon the same is true of a lot of you. (Yale is a goofy course, isn't it? So is The Addington.)

Spyglass #4 *is* a goofy hole, for my money...and that's the main reason I like it so much.

Cheers,
Darren
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is the 4th Green at Spyglass Goofy??
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2002, 03:42:34 AM »
Darren,
When I hear the word goofy used to describe a green, or an entire course for that matter, it generally conjures up visions of windmills and amusement parks. When I hear it from a writer with Brad's knowledge of architecture, I consider it to be used in it's literal meaning, i.e. silly. That doesn't mean I agree with his assessment.  :)
  
p.s. You have to be the first person I have ever heard use the word goofy to describe Yale. You aren't serious, are you?  ???
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:03 PM by -1 »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back