[Matt_Ward]

Matthew P:

Clearly, a NY-owned facility doesn't have to provide one tee time to outside groups but the Black could try to institute some tee times that are geared to those not from NY -- the reason being the extra $$ they receive from such groups and from the fact that the Black has now become a world renown facility having hosted two US Opens and likely more to come. Frankly, I think it's easier to get a foursome for a prime day / time at TOC than the Black. Just have to pay more airfare to get to and from !

The afternoon periods would likely fare best since morning tee times would be the main domain of existing NYers.

Likely the best way for outsiders to still play is to go as a single and hook up with another group.

[Jason McNamara]

Sounds like the Black should offer forecaddies, assuming they can keep the SEIU away.

[Richard Choi]

I have never tried to play Bethpage but I know that it's not easy to get on Torrey Pines as a non-resident. What's the best way to strike a balance given that it is a publically-owned, tax-supported facility?

Actually, it is quite easy to get on Torrey Pines as a non-resident. All you need to do is to buy the hotel/lesson package and you can reserve it something like 6 months out. Of course, why anyone would pay that much money for Torrey is beyond my comprehension, but if you have the dough, you can play Torrey any time you want.

I also disagree that it is so difficult to get on Bethpage Black. If you get out there around 3 or 4 AM during weekdays, you are almost guaranteed to get on. And all you have to do is to sleep in the car for a weekend tee time. A pretty small sacrifice for such a great course, if you ask me.

[Jud_T]

I have never tried to play Bethpage but I know that it's not easy to get on Torrey Pines as a non-resident. What's the best way to strike a balance given that it is a publically-owned, tax-supported facility?

Actually, it is quite easy to get on Torrey Pines as a non-resident. All you need to do is to buy the hotel/lesson package and you can reserve it something like 6 months out. Of course, why anyone would pay that much money for Torrey is beyond my comprehension, but if you have the dough, you can play Torrey any time you want.

I also disagree that it is so difficult to get on Bethpage Black. If you get out there around 3 or 4 AM during weekdays, you are almost guaranteed to get on. And all you have to do is to sleep in the car for a weekend tee time. A pretty small sacrifice for such a great course, if you ask me.

Neither seems very appealing-one because of the course, the other because of the hassle....

[John Moore II]

I have never tried to play Bethpage but I know that it's not easy to get on Torrey Pines as a non-resident. What's the best way to strike a balance given that it is a publically-owned, tax-supported facility?

Actually, it is quite easy to get on Torrey Pines as a non-resident. All you need to do is to buy the hotel/lesson package and you can reserve it something like 6 months out. Of course, why anyone would pay that much money for Torrey is beyond my comprehension, but if you have the dough, you can play Torrey any time you want.

I also disagree that it is so difficult to get on Bethpage Black. If you get out there around 3 or 4 AM during weekdays, you are almost guaranteed to get on. And all you have to do is to sleep in the car for a weekend tee time. A pretty small sacrifice for such a great course, if you ask me.

Neither seems very appealing-1 because of the course, two because of the hassle....

Actually, Ed Getka was telling me one of the times we played that Torrey Pines was fairly easy to get on if you know when to go. He said that a group of older gentlemen have standing tee times early in the morning during the week, and that almost certainly they don't fill all the slots in their allotted tee times. So for those willing to tee off at 6:45am or whenever the first tee times are, you can get off most any morning. Perhaps this is not the case anymore, but it used to be at least.

[Matt_Ward]

Richard:

Getting on as a SINGLE is not the issue that I addressed -- read it again. What I said is that if four outsiders want to get a morning tee time or even an early afternoon weekend tee time it's highly unlikely. The automated tee time call - in system is stacked to the NYers and the outsiders simply eat the crumbs -- one you do get on -- it's six hours of pure bliss !

[Jerry Kluger]

Matt: "Six hours of bliss" come on.  That cannot be true.  You should be able to play any walkable course in no more than 4 hours - let's say BPB is tough and we will give it four and a half - that means you have an extra hour and a half waiting.  It may be great architecture but is it bliss when you're standing there waiting and waiting? I do want to play the course so I guess I will try and get out really early on a weekday in May or September when I have a shot at playing it in under 5 hours. 

[Phil_the_Author]

Jerry,

Matt used the term "six hours of bliss" quite tongue-in-cheek. Reality is that a 4&1/2 hour round on it will feel as if you ran! 5 hours will be the norm and will involve a few waits but really not all that many. Matt refuses to recognize that the standard Bethpage golfer has never been taught how to play at a normal pace and so doesn't know how to do what should be routine in any ready golf setting. Yes, on much rarer occasions than Matt wants to give credence to a 6 hour round is possible... and I believe still worth it.

Regardless of how long the round is, play it. You won't regret it. And when you do, please tell me just how gloriously unexpected the sight of the 4th hole is through the trees when you're standing on the 3rd green!  

[Jud_T]

The only time 6 hours is justified for golf is if 36 holes are involved.....I was fortunate to play the Black in a Corporate outing right after the first Open.  Given this discussion, I will not be headed back any time soon.....

[Jerry Kluger]

Philip: I think it is sad that a standard Bethpage golfer has not been taught how to play a normal round of golf - what does that mean? What could they possibly be doing to cause a 50% increase in the time that a round of golf should take?  Maybe they shouldn't be playing golf at all or maybe they shouldn't be playing BPB. Am I perhaps to understand that the average guy playing the course is going to shoot 110 and on top of that do it slowly - amazing - I wouldn't be looking forward to my weekends if that is what I had to look forward to.

[Richard Choi]

Matt, I am not talking about singles. There is one tee time per hour set aside for walk-on players. You don't have to be a NY state resident to take advantage of those. All you have to do is to get in line. I have gotten there at 4AM on Sat morning as a two-some and got on Black. For weekdays, you have even better chances.

If getting there at 3 or 4 AM is too much of a "hassle" for you to enjoy this great course, I don't think this course is really for you anyway.

I don't think BPB plays much slower than any other muni around the country. Actually, the pace is pretty good considering the difficulty, elevation changes, and pure difficulty of the course. You guys need to go out and play more rounds at places where more average joe's play.

[Matt_Ward]

Richard:

One tee time -- per hour. OK -- geeze one's odds are slightly better than winning the Mega Ball. C'mon Richard, please try to understand I've been going to Bethpage for 37 years. I kind of know the drill that happens there and what the percentages are for outsiders to now play -- especially in securing a group tee time.

I don't need the lecture about the early hour arrival -- I've been there many times so I know full well what the Black can be and why I enjoyed it so much to merit 200+ rounds there.

BB is much slower because the terrain is tough, the elevated approaches are demanding and when coupled with narrow fairways and penal rough and a plethora of wannabee golfers who could not hit Kansas when standing on the Colorado line and when you have personnel that is totally clueless on moving people around the course the net result is 6 hour golf.

Let me point out my comments on tee times were about weekends / holidays -- on weekdays the situation is far different for access but the above items I just mentioned are still present - OK, so instead of six hour golf it's 5 1/2 hours. Wow -- you save 30 minutes !

[Matt_Ward]

Jerry:

Six hours is more the norm than you might imagine -- especially weekends / holidays.

Try to stay on the weekdays as you mentioned.

[Mike Hendren]

I'm genuinely curious:

Why does anyone residing outside of NY State think they are entitled to access?
Why does anyone residing in NY State they are entitled to access?
Why does anyone residing outside of NY State think they are entitled to affordable golf?
Why does anyone residing in NY State think they are entitled to affordable golf?
Why does everyone think they're entitled to a four hours round of golf?
What's so bad about a 6 hours round on one of the best golf courses in America?  Where else would you rather be?  Why are you so damned important?  Why is your time so valuable?
What's so bad about there being things in life that money can't buy?
When did so many people on this website become socialists?

I'm confused.

Mike

[Matt_Ward]

Michael H:

To answer your questions ...

1). As a public facility there is access to all -- it's just that the availability of such access doesn't really exist in any free flowing consistent way -- especially for outside foursomes on weekends and holidays.
2). NYers own the facility so they have the priority -- no dispute here from me.
3). You're right -- NY State should charge outsiders the same rate as PB and really knock them out of the box.
4). NYers do get a good buy -- the only issue is the death march slow play and the overly demanding layout that totally unprepared golfers attempt to play.
5). Four hour golf is not possible at the Black -- five hours did happen -- now the trend because of the aforementioned issues already itemized is near six hours regularly.
6). Golf should not be a game where literally you can read each section of the Sunday NY Times on each tee because of the crawl involved. If such a pattern of play is good for you then knock yourself out and enjoy it. I, and countless others, don't see that as enjoyment no matter the layout involved.
7). Nothing bad about it for some -- if you enjoy sitting on your can waiting for people to advance golf shots 100 yards at a clip and doing it via military golf -- then you should thoroughly enjoy playing the Black.
. Kind of cunfused with that argument -- socialists? -- how bout we just say the previous way to get on the Black and the other courses at Bethpage worked out very well for all involved.

Hope th einfo provided helps your understanding ...

[Phil_the_Author]

Michael,

"What's so bad about a 6 hours round on one of the best golf courses in America?  Where else would you rather be?  Why are you so damned important?  Why is your time so valuable?"

AMEN! But then I'm one of those that believes that if you enjoy a good meal you'll also love leftovers as enough is never enough of something special...

[Jud_T]

There is no course that would be enjoyable during a 6 hour round.  There is simply no way to get into the rhythm of the game and enjoy the walk when you are standing around waiting excessively on every shot.  If the Lido club magically reappeared but it was a 6 hour death march I'd head to AC for a poker tourny instead....  

[Phil_the_Author]

Jud,

Then explain why so many of teh same golfers play the Black over and over...

[Jud_T]

Jud,

Then explain why so many of teh same golfers play the Black over and over...

As P.T. Barnum, or was it W.C. Fields, said: "A sucker is born every day"

[jeffwarne]

I'm genuinely curious:

Why does anyone residing outside of NY State think they are entitled to access?
Why does anyone residing in NY State they are entitled to access?
Why does anyone residing outside of NY State think they are entitled to affordable golf?
Why does anyone residing in NY State think they are entitled to affordable golf?
Why does everyone think they're entitled to a four hours round of golf?
What's so bad about a 6 hours round on one of the best golf courses in America?  Where else would you rather be?  Why are you so damned important?  Why is your time so valuable?
What's so bad about there being things in life that money can't buy?
When did so many people on this website become socialists?

I'm confused.

Mike

Not to worry,
Nobody goes to Bethage anymore.......
....it's too crowded

[Matt_Ward]

Bethpage is a great deal for NYers who get to pay considerably less (no prob there) but let's be real -- the place gets plenty of people who want to play a US Open layout -- the issue is how the course is daily prepared and the simple fact that play is not consistently monitored and then you have the folks who simply are overwhelmed by all that the Black presents.

People who venture there had best know what lies ahead. If you enjoy six hour golf on such a torture trek then by all means rush out and join the hordes doing likewise. I can supply the NY Times Sunday issue and have appropriate sections of the paper waiting at each tee to fill the time.

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