News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
MPCC Dunes - 1925 by Seth Raynor
« on: April 12, 2010, 06:50:24 PM »
Originally constructed in 1925 by Seth Raynor, remodeled in 1998 by Rees Jones, Monterey Peninsula Country Club’s Dunes course has recently renovated its bunkers to a traditional if not original look.

After the renovation of the Shore course, the Dunes became the “other” course on the property, even more so with the ATT taking over the Shore for 6 days in February 2010.

The Dunes is traditional in every way and unlike its neighbor to the south, the one that shows the dunes and ocean at the beginning of the round, the Dunes starts quietly in the forest then spends the rest of the round with the blue Pacific in sight.

The challenge on the Dunes is the large and nicely undulating greens.  When they are on the quick side, the golfer needs to keep all approach shots and greenside plays below the hole.

Par 35 – 37 = 72
Gold:  CR 74.5, slope 135, 6,911 yards
Combo:  CR 73.4, slope 135, 6,682 yards
Black:  CR 72.2, slope 131, 6,442 yards
Blue:  CR 70.5, slope 127, 6,087 yards





1st hole, par 4, 412 yards – A solid opener, wide fairway, receptive green








2nd hole, par 4, 369 yards – A shorter, narrower version of #1




3rd hole, par 4, 372 yards – As with #2, a 3 wood from the tee short of the fairway bunkers will leave a short iron approach.








4th hole, par 3, 233 yards – Only a true gentlemen can ace this hole.








5th hole, par 4, 358 yards – A long iron or fairway wood from the tee opens a simple approach to the green.








6th hole, par 4, 426 yards – The length of this hole requires a curved shot off the tee leaving a mid to long iron approach to the large green.










7th hole, par 3, 189 yards – Slightly downhill as we begin the trek towards the Pacific.  The prevailing wind is now evident and effects club selection (if you win closest to the hole here, it goes on the members account ;) )






8th hole, par 4, 405 yards – Simple tee shot leaves an iron shot to a large undulating green.








9th hole, par 5, 484 yards – The dunes come into play down the right side with the creek protecting the left.  A reachable par 5 that requires the approach shot to come in high and land soft.










10th hole, par 3, 170 yards – The wind and elevation change play havoc with club selection.






11th hole, par 4, 398 yards – A semi-blind tee shot, pick your aiming point and let it rip.  The right side of the fairway leaves a better angle to the green but brings the bunkers into play.










12th hole, par 4, 434 yards – New monster tees push the length back to well over 400 yards.  Approach shot is uphill and into wind requiring ½ to a full club more.








13th hole, par 5, 534 yards – Plenty of width and if the wind is calm, birdie is a must.










14th hole, par 3, 176 yards – Likely the second best “over-the-Ocean” par 3 in the Pebble Beach area.






15th hole, par 5, 621 yards – Even though you may have a short iron approach, the green slopes severely back to front, a two putt from above the hole is as a good as a birdie.










16th hole, par 4, 388 yards – A breather hole, smooth driver or fairway wood to the top of the hill, looking down to the green with a simple short iron pitch …








We were a little slow on our pace so we had to let this foursome play through …




17th hole, par 4, 418 yards – A blind tee shot to a wide fairway and generous green, uphill all the way.








18th hole, par 5, 524 yards – A solid closing hole that offers an opportunity to win a press with a birdie or a big number if you can’t control your approach into very slick green.













"... and I liked the guy ..."

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MPCC Dunes - 1925 by Seth Raynor
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2010, 07:30:19 PM »
Mike,  Very nice pictures!  A few questions- Who did the work and secondly have the bunkers been deepened as a result of the reshaping? I would also be curious if the changes have resulted in more penal bunkers/difficult recovery shots?
                                                                                           Jack                                                                       

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MPCC Dunes - 1925 by Seth Raynor
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2010, 08:09:50 PM »
Mike

Thanks for the photo tour - the P3's to me looked the real highlight of the Dunes course ?

Mike Sweeney

Re: MPCC Dunes - 1925 by Seth Raynor
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2010, 08:13:38 PM »
I have always said that in my next life when I live in Uncle Bob's guest room, MPCC is the club I would want to join.

Does anyone have any old pictures of the course? As much as I love the place, much of the fairway bunkering is not Raynorish.

Michael Robin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MPCC Dunes - 1925 by Seth Raynor
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2010, 08:54:49 PM »
So, re the par 3s:

#4 - Biarritz
#7 - Eden
#10 - Redan
#14 - Short

Does that sound right? I seem to remember that #4 had a much more defined Biarritz pre Rees.

Lynn_Shackelford

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MPCC Dunes - 1925 by Seth Raynor
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2010, 08:59:32 PM »
A fine tour thank you.  It looks like it was a beautiful day.  I wonder how much they have in the way of how the Raynor course looked?
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

JLahrman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MPCC Dunes - 1925 by Seth Raynor
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2010, 09:10:29 PM »
Am I understanding that the par 3 with the tees on the ocean side of 17-Mile Drive is actually on the Dunes course?

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MPCC Dunes - 1925 by Seth Raynor
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2010, 09:12:25 PM »
So, re the par 3s:

#4 - Biarritz
#7 - Eden
#10 - Redan
#14 - Short

Does that sound right? I seem to remember that #4 had a much more defined Biarritz pre Rees.
Michael,   The  14th if my memory serves me played about 190yds? from the back tee into a heck of a wind. Not sure if the tee was the original as it was down amongst massive rocks hard on the waters edge. One of my favorite par3s -would like to play it on a calm day !                                               Jack

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MPCC Dunes - 1925 by Seth Raynor
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2010, 09:14:34 PM »
Am I understanding that the par 3 with the tees on the ocean side of 17-Mile Drive is actually on the Dunes course?
Yes               

JLahrman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MPCC Dunes - 1925 by Seth Raynor
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2010, 09:19:51 PM »
The hell you say.  When you pull up at Point Joe and see that hole, you think "There's a Shore hole if I ever saw one."  Learn something every day I guess.

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MPCC Dunes - 1925 by Seth Raynor
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2010, 10:15:31 PM »
So, re the par 3s:

#4 - Biarritz
#7 - Eden
#10 - Redan
#14 - Short

Does that sound right? I seem to remember that #4 had a much more defined Biarritz pre Rees.
Michael,   The  14th if my memory serves me played about 190yds? from the back tee into a heck of a wind. Not sure if the tee was the original as it was down amongst massive rocks hard on the waters edge. One of my favorite par3s -would like to play it on a calm day !                                               Jack

The back tee on 14 is 176 yards to the middle according to the scorecard ... a little patch of grass amongst boulders ...
« Last Edit: April 13, 2010, 11:25:27 AM by Mike Benham »
"... and I liked the guy ..."

JLahrman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MPCC Dunes - 1925 by Seth Raynor
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2010, 11:02:15 PM »
Yes and it sure looks longer than 176 from back there.  Thanks for the pictures Mike, I just drove through the peninsula for the first time the other day.  It's a tough task for a camera to capture how beautiful that area is but those pictures are a nice effort.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2010, 12:09:40 AM by JLahrman »

Neil_Crafter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MPCC Dunes - 1925 by Seth Raynor
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2010, 11:18:59 PM »
As Raynor died during construction of the Dunes course Morse got Mackenzie and Hunter to complete it (mostly Hunter I think). So the course when it opened on 4 July 1926 was a bit of a hybrid of a Raynor/Mac&Hunter. There is a pic of the course in Thomas' book Golf Architecture in America showing the course with Mackenzie & Hunter clearly credited.
Course looks very nice and fun to play I should think, so thanks for the pics Mike
cheers Neil

Michael Robin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MPCC Dunes - 1925 by Seth Raynor
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2010, 11:54:16 PM »
I'm not sure of its original placement, but that tee out on the rocks on 14, I believe was a Rees Jones addition. Or was it re-captured from a long time ago? First time I played that hole was in 1985 and that tee was not in play. I seem to remember that it was about a 6iron or 170 yards from the back in those days.

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MPCC Dunes - 1925 by Seth Raynor
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2010, 08:20:30 AM »
Thanks for posting some great photos.  I was fortunate enough to play there last year, but did not pay attention to my camera settings.  As a result, I ended up with tiny photos. 

As usual, I was impressed with Raynor's routing.  One of my favorite places on the course is the green site on the 9th hole.  It's a short par 5, but the green is tucked just behind the dune, making for plenty of complications if one goes for it in two (or three in my case). 


More than anything else, MPCC Dunes has forced me to modify my views on Rees Jones.  We do a lot of complaining about how he messes up classic courses while "doctoring" them to support tournament play.  Much of the criticism may be justified.  But his work at MPCC also shows the kind of work he is capable of.  I never saw the version of the course that he started with, but the one that is there now is very, very good.

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MPCC Dunes - 1925 by Seth Raynor
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2010, 08:25:12 AM »
John,

Although I agree the picture is tiny it is nonetheless taken from a very impressive angle.

Would classify this hole as "Alps"?  Or, does it not have the elevation change?  If not, than Cape?
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MPCC Dunes - 1925 by Seth Raynor
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2010, 08:49:24 AM »
Although I agree the picture is tiny it is nonetheless taken from a very impressive angle.

;D

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MPCC Dunes - 1925 by Seth Raynor
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2010, 09:36:45 AM »
John,

Although I agree the picture is tiny it is nonetheless taken from a very impressive angle.

Would classify this hole as "Alps"?  Or, does it not have the elevation change?  If not, than Cape?

That's one from Google Earth, not my original. 

Tim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MPCC Dunes - 1925 by Seth Raynor
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2010, 09:42:02 AM »
Am I understanding that the par 3 with the tees on the ocean side of 17-Mile Drive is actually on the Dunes course?
Yes               

One of the scariest tee shots I ever encountered. As I tend to draw, I had to start it waaaay right, aiming at nothing but ocean and the dam wind still carried it left of the green!

Opening heading away from the beach and into the forest/houses takes something away.  The first 2 holes are repetitious playing in the same direction.  The course doesn't get going until the 7th (although the 4th - like all the par 3's - is a gem).  It also looks like they are addressing the drainage/wet soils issue of the inland holes from the pics.  

Standing on #10 tee is a glorious vista, overlooking Spanish Bay's links to the right and the Dunes/Shore ahead and left.  And what looks like a benign, downhill par 3 in photos is really like #7 at Pebble on steriods - straight into or with a right to left quartering headwind, it seems like a mile and just a little too much spin and Good Luck!

Highlight was running Bill Walsh (Legendary Standfor & San Fran 49er's coach - for those across the pond and down under) and his wife at the Halfway house.  She was in her declining days and Bill said they just come out to sit and take in the scenery.  Very moving.
Coasting is a downhill process

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MPCC Dunes - 1925 by Seth Raynor
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2010, 09:45:53 AM »
John,

Although I agree the picture is tiny it is nonetheless taken from a very impressive angle.

Would classify this hole as "Alps"?  Or, does it not have the elevation change?  If not, than Cape?

That's one from Google Earth, not my original. 

Oh.  That makes much more sense.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MPCC Dunes - 1925 by Seth Raynor
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2010, 11:18:25 AM »
So, re the par 3s:

#4 - Biarritz
#7 - Eden
#10 - Redan
#14 - Short

Does that sound right? I seem to remember that #4 had a much more defined Biarritz pre Rees.
Michael,   The  14th if my memory serves me played about 190yds? from the back tee into a heck of a wind. Not sure if the tee was the original as it was down amongst massive rocks hard on the waters edge. One of my favorite par3s -would like to play it on a calm day !                                               Jack



Jack,

The 14th hole is 189 yards to the back of the green.

The 4th hole is 247 yards to the back of the green.

The new scorecard has not been printed as yet..

Bob

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MPCC Dunes - 1925 by Seth Raynor
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2010, 11:29:58 AM »
Mike,

Wonderful photographs and you've captured the 11th and 12th holes beautifully.

Rees did some superb work on the Dunes but it must be remembered that six-time Club Champion, Andy Nottenkamper. had proposed not only the change at Number 14 but making Number 16 a dog-leg left, this some 34 years ago.

He also proposed moving the 18th tee back on the right amongst the trees and having a chute similar to that now seen at Augusta. That may still be on Jones' agenda.

Thanks for posting.

Bob

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MPCC Dunes - 1925 by Seth Raynor
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2010, 12:28:00 PM »
A few questions- Who did the work and secondly have the bunkers been deepened as a result of the reshaping? I would also be curious if the changes have resulted in more penal bunkers/difficult recovery shots?
                                                                                         

Hopefully Bob can answer this question.  My guess is it Gil Hanse who MPCC hired as consulting architect???

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MPCC Dunes - 1925 by Seth Raynor
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2010, 12:36:20 PM »
Joel,

Rees Jones is the architect for the Dunes and Gil Hanse for the Shore.

Bob

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MPCC Dunes - 1925 by Seth Raynor
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2010, 12:39:29 PM »
Joel,

Rees Jones is the architect for the Dunes and Gil Hanse for the Shore.

Bob

Umm, Bob, I know you are a member and all so surely you are more informed than me....

but wasn't Mike Strantz the remodel designer for the shore course???

Or have you guys already retained a new archie?
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--