[Mike H]

I am a member at NCR Country Club in Dayton, OH and the past few years I have noticed more and more ballmarks on the greens.  NCR gets a lot of play but what kind of programs do other clubs promote to help with this problem and of these programs which ones actually work?

[Tim Johnson]

Hamilton assigns sections of the locker room to certain greens. They have 27 holes and the thinking is you spend a little more time on your assigned green and repair more ball marks than normal. The greens are usually in good shape so I would guess it works.

[Bradley Anderson]

Why the f_ _ _ does there need to be a f _ _ _ ing "program" ?

[Bill Hyde]

At our place, the onset of more ballmarks was a symptom of a black layer issue. How is the drainage on your greens? Are there a lot of greenside trees? Does water drain naturally or do you have sots where it puddles? You may have a bigger problem than forgetful members.

[Michael Taylor]

Why don't they try and firm up the greens?

Some clubs I've been to have a "Care Hole of the Day" sign, where you should try and fill in your own divot and 2 others, and to do the same for the putting green.

I don't know of the effectiveness of this, and it probably wouldn't work considering it isn't enforcable.

Maybe the starter or pro-shop could give away free pitch mark repairers, and ask the members kindly to leave the course in better condition than when they played it. I like the sound of that. 

Pup

[JSlonis]

Why the f_ _ _ does there need to be a f _ _ _ ing "program" ?

In a perfect world, you wouldn't need one. Unfortunately, except for a diligent minority, most golfers are just plain lazy or don't care.

The ballmark issue is one of my biggest pet peeves on the course. 

[Adam Clayman]

The only successful attempts at a "program" was at a public facility. The Village Links of Glen Ellen. There they gave out a card with 36 boxes on the perimeter of the business card sized giveaway. The idea was for each individual to either mark or punch out the numbers, fixing two ballmarks per hole. When you cam in afterwards, you submitted the card and it was placed with all the others and each week (Month?) they had a drawing for some prize. I don't recall if it was a discount on another round or what. Maybe some of our Chitown contingent can recall, or chime in

Not sure it would work at a private facility, but, it does bring the issue to the forefront with each and every golfer who tees off, each and every time. It has the same psychological affect, on players, as informing them of the pace of play policy. Only the real Assholes ignore it.

Maybe a course ratings could be based on the percentage of A-holes that frequent a facility? A zero or 1 could be a nice advertorial.

[Michael Rossi]

I have seen a photo in a locker room of a green with golf balls sitting on every ball mark. There was a caption under the photo speaking about the importance of repairing ball marks, how to repair them properly, how a repaired and unrepaired ball mark heals with the time estimates for both.

As I understand it was successful and really got the members eyes open to the issue.

[Bradley Anderson]

I can't believe I wrote something so crude on here. But isn't it just crazy that we still have people playing golf who don't fix their ballmarks?

It just totally boggles my mind.

[Bob_Huntley]

My dear David,

You are becoming monomanaical.


Take a deep breadth, sip a a decent malt and tell youself that the R&A and the USGA are going to take care of your pet peeve. You will get get over this one day.

Best wishes.


Bob

[David Schofield]

I played a private course last fall that gave out free repair tools and had a huge sign on the first tee reminding everyone to use them.  Unfortunately, the sign showed the worst possible way to fix a ball mark.  It showed the "stab and pry the center of the mark upwards" method. 

[Scott Warren]

I played a private course last fall that gave out free repair tools and had a huge sign on the first tee reminding everyone to use them.  Unfortunately, the sign showed the worst possible way to fix a ball mark.  It showed the "stab and pry the center of the mark upwards" method. 

Is that not the correct method if the turf isn't torn?

I was taught:

Depression but no tear: lift the centre up.
Turf torn: turn edges in, starting at the back, where the soil is raised up

Is that wrong?

[David Schofield]

I've always understood that any prying upwards just leaves a void below the surface of the green that will eventually collapse.

[John Moore II]

I have seen a photo in a locker room of a green with golf balls sitting on every ball mark. There was a caption under the photo speaking about the importance of repairing ball marks, how to repair them properly, how a repaired and unrepaired ball mark heals with the time estimates for both.

As I understand it was successful and really got the members eyes open to the issue.

Great idea. I had a super one time tell me a good line about fixing or not fixing ball marks. Five seconds to fix-five minutes to die. Saying that it takes very little time to fix that mark, and also very little time for the turf that was the mark to die and require a long time to heal if not fixed properly.

[Michael Rossi]

I've always understood that any prying upwards just leaves a void below the surface of the green that will eventually collapse.

CORRECT!!!

Think about how the ball is interacting with the surface when it strikes.

Simple physics Newtons 3rd law "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

The ball does not push the turf and soil straight down, the ball comes in on an angle and displaces the turf and soil outwards, primarily in the opposite direction from which the shot was taken and some sideways. Start by pushing the displaced turf from the opposite side of the shot where the most turf has been displaced back towards the ball mark, then repeat from each side pushing the material inwards.

Stabbing and prying upwards is incorrect and makes the situation worse.

[Chris Shaida]

We've talked about this a fair amount on our golf committee and still haven't really figured it out.  Once we got past the 'we just shouldn't need to do anything about this since everybody should already know it's their responsibility' thing we developed a working theory that there were three categories of ballmark non-fixers:

- those who know they should but won't
- those who know they should but can be shamed into doing it
- those who don't know/are confused (it's part of this hypothesis that there we have enough new/occasional golfers who are a bit confused about whether now that they are in a private club they should 'have' do this anymore)

We figured that we could work on the second two groups (and we'd leave it up to the board to figure out what to do about the first:).

Last fall we put up signs on the first tee, handed out ballmark repair tools and had two weekend mornings where we had one of our assistants lurking around a few of the first greens and reminded members when they made but didn't fix a ballmark.

This seemed to help.

We've also talked about getting pictures of, say, Jack, Arnie, Phil and Annika each fixing a ballmark with captions along the lines of 'the greatest/most enduring/most talented/etc. golfers in the world fix their ballmarks--you can to'  But we've had a hard time locating pictures.  One occasionally catches a glimpse of a pro fixing his/her ballmark on TV--maybe we can do a video capture or something.  Or maybe I should write to each and ask for a picture?

[Mike H]

Thank you for everyones ideas about this issue.  Bradley I totally agree that this should not be an issue but I think some members feel entitled that the grounds crew will fix the ball marks for them and this never gets taken care of. 

Bill I think you could be right about the drainage issue.  This winter the club installed drainage on seven greens.  There are not that many trees that block the morning sun on the greens either. 

Michael do you happen to have a picture of the green that has the golf balls sitting on each ball mark?  I know there was a posting in the locker room last summer of a golf cart that got hit by lightning and it was the talk of the club.  I think a picture you were speaking of could have the same effect.

[Michael Rossi]

Sorry Mike I do not have the photo, wish I did. Should be pretty easy to produce and would probably have more impact if it was done on one of the greens at the home club.

[Sean Leary]

I think it can be more of an issue with courses that have firmish greens because people have a harder time finding their ballmark because the ball runs out so it is harder to determine where it landed. And people are lazy.

[Dave Greene]

I never could understand why someone would not fix their ballmark. With so many driving carts they hit to the green and drive to the side or the back of the green and never walk to the front of the green to see the ball mark. Just lazy!

We constantly remind our members and sometimes in a stern way. We rarely have our green crew repair them because it will take too much time and we feel if the members have to live with the ballmarks maybe they will get tired of them at some point. The cooperation of the membership improved a lot last year and we just keep on them about it.

It does help to keep the greens as dry and firm as you can as this will help prevent ballmarks too. When all else fails just beat the members with a stick or the club of your choice.

Dave Greene

[David Lott]

Are your members getting too old to bend over?

Too blind to see the marks?

Are more people using carts, and less caddies?

Or are the greens just wet?

IMHO scuff marks are worse than ball marks. Pick up your feet people. If you can.

[noonan]

As soon as we get some nice weather you wont see any marks at NCR. The greens there are huge.  I played Walnut Grove today and the greens there are firm enough it was tough to leave a mark. The lack of trees at the cash comes from the removal in late 90's or early 2000's.

[Mike H]

Jerry

I became a member about 3 years ago and in my opinion the greens on the North Course are much better than the greens on the South Course.  I am speaking about the greens from what I have seen so far this year and what I have seen the past two summers.  I play a decent amount on other private courses and I would say that the South Course's greens are about the worst as far as ball marks go. 

[noonan]

The South does get lots of traffic. With traffic comes the marks. I played a ton of golf there in the 90's. During the season the greens were always firm. When the do get firm and the ball bounces, the old timers just go over the green and chip without fixing. I am sure with the membership drive the cash did you have traffic early with new members. Hopefully the ball mark issue will be addressed. You are fortunate to play such a great track every day. I like the north as much as the south. Others do not share my opinion. 2 wonderful courses.

[Todd Bell]

Is it plausible to suggest that daily cutting @ .125 and lower could be contributing? 

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