[DMoriarty]

Why would you repost those articles when none of them supports your claim?   Reposting a bunch of tangential articles that do not really address the issue wouldn't justify your claim that the course was paid for from relief spending any more than it did the first time you posted them.

 If the particular spending at issue was part of a relief program, that should be easy enough for you to establish.  

[Mike Cirba]

David,

This is really not worth arguing about to me...we're splitting hairs and I'd rather we just be glad we all have more info on the history of Sharp Park.

Thanks.

[DMoriarty]

That's fine Mike, I was just setting the record straight after you again injected your "discovery" about SP back into the conversation.

But I am still curious as to why you criticize Tom M for trying to understand these courses based on limited information, yet you are comfortable judging them and dismissing them based on no information at all.  Isn't an opinion based on limited information preferable to a claim of fact based on nothing at all?
 
Also Mike, don't you think it is about time you dropped the pettiness onthe title of the thread?  Or if you insist on being petty, shouldn't you at least get your facts straight?   1936 was by no means "post -depression era."

[Mike Cirba]

That's fine Mike, I was just setting the record straight after you again injected your "discovery" about SP back into the conversation.

But I am still curious as to why you criticize Tom M for trying to understand these courses based on limited information, yet you are comfortable judging them and dismissing them based on no information at all.  Isn't an opinion based on limited information preferable to a claim of fact based on nothing at all?
 
Also Mike, don't you think it is about time you dropped the pettiness onthe title of the thread?  Or if you insist on being petty, shouldn't you at least get your facts straight?   1936 was by no means "post -depression era."


David,

I'm not sure I understand your criticism.

In most cases, I dug up much more actual information about the courses in question than Tom provided, or alternatively probed him to provide more evidence to bolster his selection.

Such posts as "Added Swan Valley and deleted Crow's Cave" do very little to advance the conversation or anyone's understanding, you'll have to admit.  Similarly, fuzzy aerials from 10,000 feet are not very illustrative.

Give me some prominent players and news observers of the day talking about the course, or news articles speaking to its reputation for demanding, interesting golf.   Don't give me a name-dropped list of prominent architects and tell me that the courses had to therefore be good, even if no one has ever heard of the courses, or wrote about them during their heyday.

Where I've also consistently objected is courses created after 1929, which is outside the scope of my original statement, as evidenced in my very first post to you on this thread, and those courses built for resort second-home communities, which were as "public" as Olympia Snowe is a rock-ribbed conservative Republican.   Almost all of those courses were associated with hotels, and with real-estate developments, often with yacht slips for parking, and were simply open to the public, who were rich vacationers able to afford their significant green fees until the housing elements were filled, at which time most became exclusive private communities.  

In either case, courses in each category have nothing to do with any claim I ever made.

As I've said all along, I'd be happy to take any true public course opened prior to the Depression and discuss/debate the merits and reputation of it against Cobb's Creek during those years.

The fact that Tom needs to misrepresent my claim shows his complete lack of confidence in refuting it.

I've changed the title, but I'm not sure the best way to indicate courses built in the seven years after the Market Crash that takes us through 1936, which Tom insists on using..   I'm open to suggestions.

[Tom MacWood]

I've added Cooper River in Camden.

Harding Park (1925) - W.Watson & S.Whiting  (San Francisco, Ca)
Haggins Oak (1932) - A.Mackenzie   (Sacramento, Ca)
Sharp Park (1931) - A.Mackenzie   (Pacifica, Ca)
Griffith Park-Wilson (1915/1923) - T.Bendelow & G.Thomas   (Los Angeles, Ca)
Griffith Park-Harding (1915/1925) - T. Bendelow & G.Thomas  (Los Angeles, Ca)
Lake Chabot (1923) - W.Locke   (Oakland, Ca)
Brookside Muni (1928) - B.Bell  (Pasadena, Ca)
Sunset Fields-South (1927) - B.Bell  (Los Angeles, Ca)
Sunset Fields-North (1928) - B.Bell  (Los Angeles, Ca)
Montebello Park (1928) - M.Behr  (Montebello, Ca)
Patty Jewett (1898/1917) - W.Campbell & W.Watson  (Colorado Springs, Co)
Cleveland Heights (1925) - W.Flynn  (Lakeland, Fl)
Jacksonville Muni (1923) - D.Ross  (Jacksonville, Fl)
Kelsey City (1924) - W.Langford  (W.Palm Beach, Fl)
Miami Muni (1922) - W.Langford  (Hialeah, Fl)
Opa Locka (1927) - W.Flynn  (Miami, Fl)
Pasadena (1925) - W.Stiles, J.VanKleek & W.Hagen  (St. Petersburg, Fl)
Savannah Muni (1926) - D.Ross  (Savannah, Ga)
Big Run (1930) - H.Smead  (Lockport, Il)
Cog Hill #2 (1926) - D.McIntosh  (Lemont, Il)
Glencoe (1921) - G.O'Neil  (Glencoe, Il)
Palos Park (1919) - T.Bendelow  (Palos Park, Il)
Pickwick (1927) - J.Roseman  (Glenview, Il)
St. Andrews (1926) - E.Dearie  (W.Chicago, Il)
Sandy Hollow (1930) - C.Wagstaff  (Rockford, Il)
Waveland (1901) - W.Dickinson  (Des Moines, Ia)
Beechwood (1931) - W.Diddell  (LaPorte, In)
Coffin (1920) - W.Diddell  (Indianapolis, In)
Erskine Park (1925) - G.O'Neil  (South Bend, In)
Seneca (1935) - A.McKay  (Louisville, Ky)
Riverside Muni (1931) - W.Stiles  (Portland, Me)
Mount Pleasant (1933) - G.Hook  (Baltimore, Md)
Belvedere (1925) - W.Watson  (Charlevoix, Mi)
Colony (1935) - CH.Alison (Algonac, Mi)
Rackham (1924) - D.Ross  (Detroit, Mi)
Armour Park (1925) - W.Clark  (Minneapolis, Mn)
Keller (1929) - P.Coates  (St. Paul, Mn)
Meadowbrook (1926) - J.Foulis  (Minneapolis, Mn)
Gulf Hills (1927) - J.Daray  (Biloxi, Ms)
Swope Park (1915/1934) - J.Dagleish & A.Tillinghast  (Kansas City, Mo)
Forest Park (1912) - R.Foulis  (St. Louis, Mo)
Cooper River (1929) - D.Emmet & A.Tull  (Camden, NJ)
Bayside (1930) - A. Mackernzie  (Bayside, NY)
Bethpage-Red (1935) - A.Tillinghast  (Farmingdale, NY)
Bethpage-Blue (1935) - A.Tillinghast  (Farmingdale, NY)
Green Lakes (1936) - RT.Jones  (Syracuse, NY)
La Tourette (1929/1934) - D.Rees & J.VanKleek  (Staten Island, NY)
Salisbury Links (1908) - D.Emmet  (Garden City, NY)
Split Rock (1935) - J.VanKleek  (Bronx, NY)
Asheville Muni (1927) - D.Ross  (Asheville, NC)
Starmount Forest (1930) - W.Stiles & J.VanKleek  (Greensboro, NC)
Community (1912) - W.Hoare  (Dayton, Oh)
Mill Creek (1928) - D.Ross  (Youngstown, Oh)
Highland Park-New (1928) - S.Alves  (Cleveland, Oh)
Metropolitan Parks (1926) - S.Thompson  (Cleveland, Oh)
Ridgewood (1924) - S.Alves  (Parma, Oh)
Tam O'Shanter-Dales (1928) - L.Macomber  (Canton, Oh)
Twin Hills (1926) - P.Maxwell (Oklahoma City, Ok)
Eastmoreland (1918) - H.Egan  (Portland, Or)
Cobbs Creek (1916) - H.Wilson   (Philadelphia, Pa)
Hershey Park (1931) - M.McCarthy  (Hershey, Pa)
North Park (1933) - E.Loeffler & J.McGlynn  (Allison Park, Pa)
Tam O'Shanter, Pa (1929) - E.Loeffler  (Hermitage, Pa)
Beaver Tail (1925) - A.Tillinghast  (Jamestown, RI)
Triggs Memorial (1933) - D.Ross  (Providence, RI)
Stevens Park (1924)                     (Dallas, TX)
Tenison Park (1924) - S.Cooper & J.Burke  (Dallas, Tx)
Brackenridge Park (1916) - A.Tillinghast  (San Antonio, Tx)
Memorial Park (1935) - J.Bredemus  (Houston, Tx)
Indian Canyon (1935) - H.Egan  (Spokane, Wa)
Jackson Park (1930) - W.Tucker & F.James  (Seattle, Wa)
Brown Deer (1929) - G.Hansen  (Milwaukee, Wi)
Janesville Muni (1924) - RB.Harris  (Janesville, Wi)
Lawsonia (1930) - W.Langford  (Green Lake, Wi)

[DMoriarty]

I am referring to your insistence on claiming that "in fact" Cobb's was the absolute best despite the fact that you knew little or nothing about the quality of the many or most of the other courses.   At least Tom is attempting to figure it out.  You just made your pronouncement as fact without bothering any sort of a coherent analysis of the rest of the pool.   

As for suggestions as to the title, how about "Tom MacWood's list of Top Public Courses before Bethpage Black" because that is what it is.   No need to try and trivialize it with your pithy editorializing and qualifying about post-Depression (inaccurate) or resort community (incoherent.)   People can read the thread and the list and come to their own conclusions. 

[Mike Cirba]

David,

Is that what he's doing?  Hmmmm...could have fooled me.

I've carefully considered your suggested name change, buried as it is within a litany of snide remarks and insults and have decided...nah...the title doesn't fit.

I can think of much more appropriate, accurate one's but I'll exercise some restraint.   Plus, if Tom wants to have his own thread and authorship of the topic title you guys really shouldn't have threadjacked mine.   There's nothing preventing him from starting his own thread and cutting and pasting his list over there and he can call it whatever he likes.

Even ignoring Tom' intent and motive way too many courses on his list have nothing in the world to do with true public golf as you and I know it at places like Cobbs Creek and Rustic Canyon.  I haven't pulled my yacht up to either and I doubt you have either, nor stayed at the luxury hotel next door that was paying for the golf course expenses, nor bought an estate home along its fairways.

[DMoriarty]

Yes Mike, that is what he is doing.   That is why he continues to research courses and make changes.He is creating his list,   Tom MacWood's List of Top Public Courses before Bethpage Black.    That is what the thread should be called.

Fascinating that you still see this as a direct affront to you.  I guess that explains your continued sarcasm and obstructionist attitude.   But surely any point he wanted to make about Cobbs was made made long ago.  

As for what you term as my "snide remarks and insults" you'll have to be more specific.    I think I have fairly and accurately described what is ongoing.      
-- Didn't you claim "in fact" that Cobb's was the absolute best despite that you knew little or nothing about the quality of the many or most of the other courses?
-- Isn't it true that Tom is actually trying some sort of coherent analysis of the quality public courses before Bethpage?
-- Isn't it true that you never attempted a coherent analysis of each of the public courses in the relevant time period?
-- Isn't it true that you've changed the title multiple times, sometimes making it rude and insulting, but at the very least trying to trivialize the thread and making a terse and vigorous editorial comment expressing your disgust with Tom MacWood's list?  
-- Isn't it true that your description of courses opening in the mid-1930's as "post-depression" is wholly inaccurate?
-- Isn't it true that your "resort community courses" is ill-defined and difficult to work with, and has nothing to do with any standard that Tom MacWood has chosen for Tom MacWood's list?
-- Isn't it true that the list might just be interesting and useful to some, and that they would perfectly capable of reading the thread and coming to their own conclusions without your jamming your opinion down their throat in the title?

I ask all this because I am fascinated that you would think my post was snide and insulting.    If a mild and accurate description of your behavior strikes you as snide and insulting, then perhaps your behavior is not what you think it is.

________________

Lastly, Mike, and frankly, this manipulation of the title is low class rhetorical move.  Again you are trying to control what people think before they ever get a chance to consider the substance of the conversation.   Putting your editorializing in the title makes it impossible for the other side to adequately and equally respond.  

That you need to control the conversation by such trickery speaks to the substance of your position.

[Tom MacWood]

I really don't care what the thread is called just as long its called something....what's the old line about being called to dinner? I thought the no title example above probably brought more attention to the thread than anything I could have called it. And 10,000+ views later its still going strong although I will be winding it up soon.

[Mike Cirba]

David,

You really need to chill...I thought California guys were supposed to be laid back?

[Tom MacWood]

David,

You really need to chill...I thought California guys were supposed to be laid back?

Chill? This coming from a guy who has changed the title of the thread more than half a dozen times and deleted half of his posts.

[Mike Cirba]

Tom,

I just didn't want to play the silly games you both foisted onto what had been a valuable historical thread.

I've since learned to just laugh along with everyone else and just consider the sources and the axes you're both still grinding.

Life's too short for this type of nonsense.   I seriously hope you both find better things to do with your time than worry about my opinion of a golf course for months on end.

[Tom MacWood]

David,

You really need to chill...I thought California guys were supposed to be laid back?

Chill? This coming from a guy who has changed the title of the thread more than half a dozen times and deleted half of his posts...and convinced others to delete their posts too. Wow.

[DMoriarty]

I'm chilled, Mike.  Compared to you I am an ice age.   Just hoping to get you to quit trying to obstruct Tom M's progress.  But I won't hold my breath.  

[Mike Cirba]

David...Tom...

Sing along with me...

"I feel pretty
Oh so pretty
I feel pretty and witty and gay
And I pity
Any girl who isn't me today
I feel charming
Oh so charming
It's alarming how charming I feel
And so pretty
That I hardly can believe I'm real
See the pretty girl in that mirror there?
Who can that attractive girl be?
Such a pretty face
Such a pretty dress
Such a pretty smile
Such a pretty me!."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9sE55QzXlo


There...doesn't that feel much better?    

If that doesn't work we're going to do some Far Eastern Yoga next.

I'll have you guys loosened up sooner or later.  

[Tom MacWood]

The Sound of Music, no wonder you're so uptight. Try this:

I strong
Man this is free yeah
And your soul
you hear from dem
I love
And this is free
Unto the sun man will see make dem trying
I row Jah to dem
I’m the top the mountain rasta say
You better better pull it pull it man ah pull it pull it man
Nor I afraid
We were once sitting in the darkness
With a stone
With no flash man no light nah go lighting in my love
But be not afraid
The dragon that sleep up in the darkness
Nothing but night

Live your life right until the day spark day light
Hide amongst the hills and the valleys
Up in the soul you mighty sweat yeah
You haffi roam you haffi sweat
You better chant a song to dem man say

I oooooh row oh jah
Man Warrior oh jah yeah

One step out false prophet
Who stand upon a magic carpet

Tell dem these songs
Tell of glory
Tell dem dem are futurs inna the storys
All lighting striking pon the hills and land
And our children see
No one fuss and no one shall be fighting
Rally upon the heart sweated for ease man joke as talk my friend

Bbbbbbblow
Jordan river haffi flow man
Bbbbbbblow

Fire say will Jah comon with
We ah say
We are warrior
Warrior song big up big up up your warrior song (SOUND) yeah

Blow love blow love blove love

Have it have it have it
My friend you have it have it have it

Red eye red eye red eye
Red fall brimstone from sky
Still the babylonian wonder why
Time dread time is dread
Rastafari say

[DMoriarty]

I'll have you guys loosened up sooner or later.  

Mike, it never ceases to amaze me how consistently you can be wrong about such a wide range of topics.    I'm plenty relaxed.  But Yoga might work for you though. 

[Tom MacWood]

Here is link to some photographs of Cooper River in Camden, NJ. It looks like an interesting design, with a very unusual bunkering scheme.

http://digital.hagley.org/cdm4/results.php?CISOOP1=all&CISOBOX1=cooper&CISOFIELD1=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOROOT=%2Fp268001uw

[Mike Cirba]

Tom,

I had no idea you were Rastah, Mon.

Awesome.  You got me singing.  Very impressive!!! 

btw...not to correct you again, but that was from "West Side Story", not "Sound of Music".   

West Side Story rocks....Sound of Music blows.   

Wanna do "When You're a Jet" with me? 

p.s.  I always thought Cooper River looked cool from the air photos too.   Wish it had survived.

[Tom MacWood]

Tom,

I had no idea you were Rastah, Mon.

Awesome.  You got me singing.  Very impressive!!!  

btw...not to correct you again, but that was from "West Side Story", not "Sound of Music".  

West Side Story rocks....Sound of Music blows.  

Wanna do "When You're a Jet" with me?  

p.s.  I always thought Cooper River looked cool from the air photos too.   Wish it had survived.

Its no coincidence I'm not phased by the negativity emanating from the heathens and sodomites.

I'll take a rain check on your offer, and I'll take your word for it on the show tunes.

[Tom MacWood]

I've removed Kelsey City and added Cascades in Jackson, Mi and Franconia Park in Springfield, Mass. 

Harding Park (1925) - W.Watson & S.Whiting  (San Francisco, Ca)
Haggins Oak (1932) - A.Mackenzie   (Sacramento, Ca)
Sharp Park (1931) - A.Mackenzie   (Pacifica, Ca)
Griffith Park-Wilson (1915/1923) - T.Bendelow & G.Thomas   (Los Angeles, Ca)
Griffith Park-Harding (1915/1925) - T. Bendelow & G.Thomas  (Los Angeles, Ca)
Lake Chabot (1923) - W.Locke   (Oakland, Ca)
Brookside Muni (1928) - B.Bell  (Pasadena, Ca)
Sunset Fields-South (1927) - B.Bell  (Los Angeles, Ca)
Sunset Fields-North (1928) - B.Bell  (Los Angeles, Ca)
Montebello Park (1928) - M.Behr  (Montebello, Ca)
Patty Jewett (1898/1917) - W.Campbell & W.Watson  (Colorado Springs, Co)
Cleveland Heights (1925) - W.Flynn  (Lakeland, Fl)
Jacksonville Muni (1923) - D.Ross  (Jacksonville, Fl)
Miami Muni (1922) - W.Langford  (Hialeah, Fl)
Opa Locka (1927) - W.Flynn  (Miami, Fl)
Pasadena (1925) - W.Stiles, J.VanKleek & W.Hagen  (St. Petersburg, Fl)
Savannah Muni (1926) - D.Ross  (Savannah, Ga)
Big Run (1930) - H.Smead  (Lockport, Il)
Cog Hill #2 (1926) - D.McIntosh  (Lemont, Il)
Glencoe (1921) - G.O'Neil  (Glencoe, Il)
Palos Park (1919) - T.Bendelow  (Palos Park, Il)
Pickwick (1927) - J.Roseman  (Glenview, Il)
St. Andrews (1926) - E.Dearie  (W.Chicago, Il)
Sandy Hollow (1930) - C.Wagstaff  (Rockford, Il)
Waveland (1901) - W.Dickinson  (Des Moines, Ia)
Beechwood (1931) - W.Diddell  (LaPorte, In)
Coffin (1920) - W.Diddell  (Indianapolis, In)
Erskine Park (1925) - G.O'Neil  (South Bend, In)
Seneca (1935) - A.McKay  (Louisville, Ky)
Riverside Muni (1931) - W.Stiles  (Portland, Me)
Mount Pleasant (1933) - G.Hook  (Baltimore, Md)
Franconia Park (1929) - W.Stiles & J.VanKleek  (Springfield, Ma)
Belvedere (1925) - W.Watson  (Charlevoix, Mi)
Cascades (1929) - T.Bendelow  (Jackson, Mi)
Colony (1935) - CH.Alison (Algonac, Mi)
Rackham (1924) - D.Ross  (Detroit, Mi)
Armour Park (1925) - W.Clark  (Minneapolis, Mn)
Keller (1929) - P.Coates  (St. Paul, Mn)
Meadowbrook (1926) - J.Foulis  (Minneapolis, Mn)
Gulf Hills (1927) - J.Daray  (Biloxi, Ms)
Swope Park (1915/1934) - J.Dagleish & A.Tillinghast  (Kansas City, Mo)
Forest Park (1912) - R.Foulis  (St. Louis, Mo)
Cooper River (1929) - D.Emmet & A.Tull  (Camden, NJ)
Bayside (1930) - A. Mackernzie  (Bayside, NY)
Bethpage-Red (1935) - A.Tillinghast  (Farmingdale, NY)
Bethpage-Blue (1935) - A.Tillinghast  (Farmingdale, NY)
Green Lakes (1936) - RT.Jones  (Syracuse, NY)
La Tourette (1929/1934) - D.Rees & J.VanKleek  (Staten Island, NY)
Salisbury Links (1908) - D.Emmet  (Garden City, NY)
Split Rock (1935) - J.VanKleek  (Bronx, NY)
Asheville Muni (1927) - D.Ross  (Asheville, NC)
Starmount Forest (1930) - W.Stiles & J.VanKleek  (Greensboro, NC)
Community (1912) - W.Hoare  (Dayton, Oh)
Mill Creek (1928) - D.Ross  (Youngstown, Oh)
Highland Park-New (1928) - S.Alves  (Cleveland, Oh)
Metropolitan Parks (1926) - S.Thompson  (Cleveland, Oh)
Ridgewood (1924) - S.Alves  (Parma, Oh)
Tam O'Shanter-Dales (1928) - L.Macomber  (Canton, Oh)
Twin Hills (1926) - P.Maxwell (Oklahoma City, Ok)
Eastmoreland (1918) - H.Egan  (Portland, Or)
Cobbs Creek (1916) - H.Wilson   (Philadelphia, Pa)
Hershey Park (1931) - M.McCarthy  (Hershey, Pa)
North Park (1933) - E.Loeffler & J.McGlynn  (Allison Park, Pa)
Tam O'Shanter, Pa (1929) - E.Loeffler  (Hermitage, Pa)
Beaver Tail (1925) - A.Tillinghast  (Jamestown, RI)
Triggs Memorial (1933) - D.Ross  (Providence, RI)
Stevens Park (1924)                     (Dallas, TX)
Tenison Park (1924) - S.Cooper & J.Burke  (Dallas, Tx)
Brackenridge Park (1916) - A.Tillinghast  (San Antonio, Tx)
Memorial Park (1935) - J.Bredemus  (Houston, Tx)
Indian Canyon (1935) - H.Egan  (Spokane, Wa)
Jackson Park (1930) - W.Tucker & F.James  (Seattle, Wa)
Brown Deer (1929) - G.Hansen  (Milwaukee, Wi)
Janesville Muni (1924) - RB.Harris  (Janesville, Wi)
Lawsonia (1930) - W.Langford  (Green Lake, Wi)

[Tom MacWood]

Metropolitan Park in Cleveland is out and Idaho Falls Muni is in.

Harding Park (1925) - W.Watson & S.Whiting  (San Francisco, Ca)
Haggins Oak (1932) - A.Mackenzie   (Sacramento, Ca)
Sharp Park (1931) - A.Mackenzie   (Pacifica, Ca)
Griffith Park-Wilson (1915/1923) - T.Bendelow & G.Thomas   (Los Angeles, Ca)
Griffith Park-Harding (1915/1925) - T. Bendelow & G.Thomas  (Los Angeles, Ca)
Lake Chabot (1923) - W.Locke   (Oakland, Ca)
Brookside Muni (1928) - B.Bell  (Pasadena, Ca)
Sunset Fields-South (1927) - B.Bell  (Los Angeles, Ca)
Sunset Fields-North (1928) - B.Bell  (Los Angeles, Ca)
Montebello Park (1928) - M.Behr  (Montebello, Ca)
Patty Jewett (1898/1917) - W.Campbell & W.Watson  (Colorado Springs, Co)
Cleveland Heights (1925) - W.Flynn  (Lakeland, Fl)
Jacksonville Muni (1923) - D.Ross  (Jacksonville, Fl)
Miami Muni (1922) - W.Langford  (Hialeah, Fl)
Opa Locka (1927) - W.Flynn  (Miami, Fl)
Pasadena (1925) - W.Stiles, J.VanKleek & W.Hagen  (St. Petersburg, Fl)
Savannah Muni (1926) - D.Ross  (Savannah, Ga)
Idaho Falls Muni (1934) - W.Tucker & F.James  (Idaho Falls, Id)
Big Run (1930) - H.Smead  (Lockport, Il)
Cog Hill #2 (1926) - D.McIntosh  (Lemont, Il)
Glencoe (1921) - G.O'Neil  (Glencoe, Il)
Palos Park (1919) - T.Bendelow  (Palos Park, Il)
Pickwick (1927) - J.Roseman  (Glenview, Il)
St. Andrews (1926) - E.Dearie  (W.Chicago, Il)
Sandy Hollow (1930) - C.Wagstaff  (Rockford, Il)
Waveland (1901) - W.Dickinson  (Des Moines, Ia)
Beechwood (1931) - W.Diddell  (LaPorte, In)
Coffin (1920) - W.Diddell  (Indianapolis, In)
Erskine Park (1925) - G.O'Neil  (South Bend, In)
Seneca (1935) - A.McKay  (Louisville, Ky)
Riverside Muni (1931) - W.Stiles  (Portland, Me)
Mount Pleasant (1933) - G.Hook  (Baltimore, Md)
Franconia Park (1929) - W.Stiles & J.VanKleek  (Springfield, Ma)
Belvedere (1925) - W.Watson  (Charlevoix, Mi)
Cascades (1929) - T.Bendelow  (Jackson, Mi)
Colony (1935) - CH.Alison (Algonac, Mi)
Rackham (1924) - D.Ross  (Detroit, Mi)
Armour Park (1925) - W.Clark  (Minneapolis, Mn)
Keller (1929) - P.Coates  (St. Paul, Mn)
Meadowbrook (1926) - J.Foulis  (Minneapolis, Mn)
Gulf Hills (1927) - J.Daray  (Biloxi, Ms)
Swope Park (1915/1934) - J.Dagleish & A.Tillinghast  (Kansas City, Mo)
Forest Park (1912) - R.Foulis  (St. Louis, Mo)
Cooper River (1929) - D.Emmet & A.Tull  (Camden, NJ)
Bayside (1930) - A. Mackernzie  (Bayside, NY)
Bethpage-Red (1935) - A.Tillinghast  (Farmingdale, NY)
Bethpage-Blue (1935) - A.Tillinghast  (Farmingdale, NY)
Green Lakes (1936) - RT.Jones  (Syracuse, NY)
La Tourette (1929/1934) - D.Rees & J.VanKleek  (Staten Island, NY)
Salisbury Links (1908) - D.Emmet  (Garden City, NY)
Split Rock (1935) - J.VanKleek  (Bronx, NY)
Asheville Muni (1927) - D.Ross  (Asheville, NC)
Starmount Forest (1930) - W.Stiles & J.VanKleek  (Greensboro, NC)
Community (1912) - W.Hoare  (Dayton, Oh)
Mill Creek (1928) - D.Ross  (Youngstown, Oh)
Highland Park-New (1928) - S.Alves  (Cleveland, Oh)
Ridgewood (1924) - S.Alves  (Parma, Oh)
Tam O'Shanter-Dales (1928) - L.Macomber  (Canton, Oh)
Twin Hills (1926) - P.Maxwell (Oklahoma City, Ok)
Eastmoreland (1918) - H.Egan  (Portland, Or)
Cobbs Creek (1916) - H.Wilson   (Philadelphia, Pa)
Hershey Park (1931) - M.McCarthy  (Hershey, Pa)
North Park (1933) - E.Loeffler & J.McGlynn  (Allison Park, Pa)
Tam O'Shanter, Pa (1929) - E.Loeffler  (Hermitage, Pa)
Beaver Tail (1925) - A.Tillinghast  (Jamestown, RI)
Triggs Memorial (1933) - D.Ross  (Providence, RI)
Stevens Park (1924)                     (Dallas, TX)
Tenison Park (1924) - S.Cooper & J.Burke  (Dallas, Tx)
Brackenridge Park (1916) - A.Tillinghast  (San Antonio, Tx)
Memorial Park (1935) - J.Bredemus  (Houston, Tx)
Indian Canyon (1935) - H.Egan  (Spokane, Wa)
Jackson Park (1930) - W.Tucker & F.James  (Seattle, Wa)
Brown Deer (1929) - G.Hansen  (Milwaukee, Wi)
Janesville Muni (1924) - RB.Harris  (Janesville, Wi)
Lawsonia (1930) - W.Langford  (Green Lake, Wi)

[Tom MacWood]

First 25
Harding Park (1925) - W.Watson & S.Whiting  (San Francisco, Ca)
Sharp Park (1931) - A.Mackenzie   (Pacifica, Ca)
Sunset Fields-South (1927) - B.Bell  (Los Angeles, Ca)
Jacksonville Muni (1923) - D.Ross  (Jacksonville, Fl)
Opa Locka (1927) - W.Flynn  (Miami, Fl)
Pickwick (1927) - J.Roseman  (Glenview, Il)
Coffin (1920) - W.Diddell  (Indianapolis, In)
Mount Pleasant (1933) - G.Hook  (Baltimore, Md)
Belvedere (1925) - W.Watson  (Charlevoix, Mi)
Colony (1935) - CH.Alison (Algonac, Mi)
Keller (1929) - P.Coates  (St. Paul, Mn)
Gulf Hills (1927) - J.Daray  (Biloxi, Ms)
Cooper River (1929) - D.Emmet & A.Tull  (Camden, NJ)
Bayside (1930) - A. Mackernzie  (Bayside, NY)
Bethpage-Red (1935) - A.Tillinghast  (Farmingdale, NY)
Bethpage-Blue (1935) - A.Tillinghast  (Farmingdale, NY)
Starmount Forest (1930) - W.Stiles & J.VanKleek  (Greensboro, NC)
Mill Creek (1928) - D.Ross  (Youngstown, Oh)
Twin Hills (1926) - P.Maxwell (Oklahoma City, Ok)
Eastmoreland (1918) - H.Egan  (Portland, Or)
Hershey Park (1931) - M.McCarthy  (Hershey, Pa)
Beaver Tail (1925) - A.Tillinghast  (Jamestown, RI)
Memorial Park (1935) - J.Bredemus  (Houston, Tx)
Indian Canyon (1935) - H.Egan  (Spokane, Wa)
Lawsonia (1930) - W.Langford  (Green Lake, Wi)

Second 25
Griffith Park-Wilson (1915/1923) - T.Bendelow & G.Thomas   (Los Angeles, Ca)
Griffith Park-Harding (1915/1925) - T. Bendelow & G.Thomas  (Los Angeles, Ca)
Sunset Fields-North (1928) - B.Bell  (Los Angeles, Ca)
Patty Jewett (1898/1917) - W.Campbell & W.Watson  (Colorado Springs, Co)
Cleveland Heights (1925) - W.Flynn  (Lakeland, Fl)
Miami Muni (1922) - W.Langford  (Hialeah, Fl)
Pasadena (1925) - W.Stiles, J.VanKleek & W.Hagen  (St. Petersburg, Fl)
Big Run (1930) - H.Smead  (Lockport, Il)
Cog Hill #2 (1926) - D.McIntosh  (Lemont, Il)
Sandy Hollow (1930) - C.Wagstaff  (Rockford, Il)
Waveland (1901) - W.Dickinson  (Des Moines, Ia)
Franconia Park (1929) - W.Stiles & J.VanKleek  (Springfield, Ma)
Cascades (1929) - T.Bendelow  (Jackson, Mi)
Armour Park (1925) - W.Clark  (Minneapolis, Mn)
Swope Park (1915/1934) - J.Dagleish & A.Tillinghast  (Kansas City, Mo)
Green Lakes (1936) - RT.Jones  (Syracuse, NY)
Salisbury Links (1908) - D.Emmet  (Garden City, NY)
Split Rock (1935) - J.VanKleek  (Bronx, NY)
Ridgewood (1924) - S.Alves  (Parma, Oh)
Tam O'Shanter-Dales (1928) - L.Macomber  (Canton, Oh)
Cobbs Creek (1916) - H.Wilson   (Philadelphia, Pa)
Tam O'Shanter, Pa (1929) - E.Loeffler  (Hermitage, Pa)
Triggs Memorial (1933) - D.Ross  (Providence, RI)
Tenison Park (1924) - S.Cooper & J.Burke  (Dallas, Tx)
Brown Deer (1929) - G.Hansen  (Milwaukee, Wi)

Third 25
Haggins Oak (1932) - A.Mackenzie   (Sacramento, Ca)
Lake Chabot (1923) - W.Locke   (Oakland, Ca)
Brookside Muni (1928) - B.Bell  (Pasadena, Ca)
Montebello Park (1928) - M.Behr  (Montebello, Ca)
Savannah Muni (1926) - D.Ross  (Savannah, Ga)
Idaho Falls Muni (1934) - W.Tucker & F.James  (Idaho Falls, Id)
Glencoe (1921) - G.O'Neil  (Glencoe, Il)
Palos Park (1919) - T.Bendelow  (Palos Park, Il)
St. Andrews (1926) - E.Dearie  (W.Chicago, Il)
Beechwood (1931) - W.Diddell  (LaPorte, In)
Erskine Park (1925) - G.O'Neil  (South Bend, In)
Seneca (1935) - A.McKay  (Louisville, Ky)
Riverside Muni (1931) - W.Stiles  (Portland, Me)
Rackham (1924) - D.Ross  (Detroit, Mi)
Meadowbrook (1926) - J.Foulis  (Minneapolis, Mn)
Forest Park (1912) - R.Foulis  (St. Louis, Mo)
La Tourette (1929/1934) - D.Rees & J.VanKleek  (Staten Island, NY)
Asheville Muni (1927) - D.Ross  (Asheville, NC)
Community (1912) - W.Hoare  (Dayton, Oh)
Highland Park-New (1928) - S.Alves  (Cleveland, Oh)
North Park (1933) - E.Loeffler & J.McGlynn  (Allison Park, Pa)
Stevens Park (1924) – J.Bredemus  (Dallas, TX)
Brackenridge Park (1916) - A.Tillinghast  (San Antonio, Tx)
Jackson Park (1930) - W.Tucker & F.James  (Seattle, Wa)
Janesville Muni (1924) - RB.Harris  (Janesville, Wi)

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Maybe this list from the USGA Green Section Record is relevant to your discussion. I stumbled across it by accident.

http://turf.lib.msu.edu/1920s/1922/2209271.pdf

[Mike Cirba]

Tom,

Nobody will ever claim again that you lack a sense of humor.   

My hats off to you and thank you for the good chuckle! 


Donal,

Thanks very much for sharing that article.

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