Betting Holes - history?

[Brett_Morrissy]

Does anyone know the history of extra or additional traditionally known as "betting" holes.

I can only think of two off the top of my head - Cape Shanck (Mornington Peninsula - Robert Trent Jones) and Lost Farm.

I am sure there are 100's of them.
Is it an American thing?
 Brett

[Jim Sweeney]

Brett, your right, there are lots of them.  But I believe the traditonal term is the "bye" hole.

I'm sure there have been discussions here about them in the past so you might try the search function to find them.

[John Moore II]

Are we talking about 19th hole types? Because Mid South and Forest Creek have extra holes built up near the clubhouse. I can't think of any other courses off hand that have extra holes. And actually, the one at Mid South was a real good hole, cool green with a large false front/run-off.

[Jim Thornton]

I've played 3:

Forest Creek South (nicknamed the "hog")
Kinloch
Old Sandwich

[John Cornish]

Does anyone know the history of extra or additional traditionally known as "betting" holes.

I can only think of two off the top of my head - Cape Shanck (Mornington Peninsula - Robert Trent Jones) and Lost Farm.

Brett - I haven't been to Barnbougle for a few years, but sitting in the clubhouse back then, I could picture a natural amphitheatre in the dune land between the restaurant and the beach that was screaming out for a green to be built. Has it eventuated?

[Matthew Mollica]

No it hasn't John.

The area you describe was considered for use in early routings from what I recall, but it never eventuated.

Does look like it's screaming out for a hole to be laid on it doesn't it?

MM

[Brett_Morrissy]

MM & John,
They have had recent issues with the tide and water levels coming almost up under the actual clubhouse, and have done some big work moving some fo the frontal dune (near wher you go to the Beach), imagine standing on the 16/17th tee, as you look back toward the clubhouse, that small estuary that begins the Forrester, now is much larger and heads back toward the clubhouse.

So, although, as you mention, it has always looked like a fine setting for a hole, reminiscent of the opening hole at Doonbeg, and along with the original 17th tee and in fact the entire RHS of the 18th fairway, there is just too much changing of the dunes and marram grass, to commit to a golf hole on that land.

bm

[Gary Slatter]

Scarboro Golf Club in Scarborough Ontario used to have one.

[Jeff Evagues]

Sebonack has one.

[Mark Pritchett]

Sage Valley has three "Dormie" holes, two par 4's and a par 3.

[Brett_Morrissy]

does anyone know the reason for them?

Particularly new courses - i.e. Sebonack and Lost Farm?

[Mark Pritchett]

I have always heard it was to settle tied bets after a round or perhaps to give opponents an attempt to win some or all of a bet back afterward. 

[Brett_Morrissy]

ahh yes, thanks Mark, that is the kind of thing I assumed it was for, and if play is desinged around matches on the particular course, then an extra hole (par 3) near the clubhouse makes great sense.

[Andrew Lewis]

I have always encountered the term "bye" used in connection with a match played over the holes remaining after the original match is closed out, with the first round of drinks as stakes.  So in that respect, it is perhaps a cousin of the "press"?

In terms of bye holes themselves, Forest Dunes in northern MI has a fun one -- a short par 3 played over water to a green with a bunker plopped in the center of the green, located within view of the clubhouse.  I have not played them, but I understand that other Weiskopf designs like Double Eagle and Yellowstone include a similar feature.

Erin Hills had one between the nines.  I believe it has become the "regular" 9th hole as part of the renovation.

And although it is not technically a "bye" or 19th hole, I have many times walked from the 18th at Kingsley over to the 9th.  The multiple tee boxes and proximity to the clubhouse make it a great place to settle a tied match.

[jeffwarne]

Sage Valley has three "Dormie" holes, two par 4's and a par 3.

Why wouldn't they have 3?


Palmetto's got three great bye holes 16,17,18
Or better yet,1-18

[M. Shea Sweeney]

Shivas-  because ties are just no fun.

[Ed Oden]

Sage Valley has three "Dormie" holes, two par 4's and a par 3.

Why wouldn't they have 3?

I don't believe the primary purpose of the 3 extra holes at Sage Valley is to settle bets, although I am sure they are also used for that.  In my experience, they are more often used as warm up holes before playing or for practice by those working on their game.

Brights Creek also has a "hog" hole.  Excluding Sage Valley, all the others I have seen have been par 3s.  Are there any par 4 or 5 betting holes?

Ed

[Bart Bradley]

The Olde Farm in Bristol has a short par 3 19th hole...funny but I've never played it...guess I've always lost the bet before we get there... .

The Virginian has 3 extra holes (two par 4s and a par 3) but they are used like Ed describes at Sage Valley.

Bart

[Tim Martin]

Why can't people accept the fact that a tied match is...TIED! 

Dave-Who the hell wants a tied match? Probably only the guys that just won 16,17, and 18 to get even. I have always heard these holes referred to as "emergency" holes.

[Brett_Morrissy]

my understanding of the extra holes at Lost Farm is they couldn't choose the ones to leave out - so they built them anyway.

All the better for us golfers...

[Gary Slatter]

Why can't people accept the fact that a tied match is...TIED! 

Isn't a tie like kissing your sister?

[Mark Pritchett]

Sage Valley has three "Dormie" holes, two par 4's and a par 3.

Why wouldn't they have 3?

I don't believe the primary purpose of the 3 extra holes at Sage Valley is to settle bets, although I am sure they are also used for that.  In my experience, they are more often used as warm up holes before playing or for practice by those working on their game.

Brights Creek also has a "hog" hole.  Excluding Sage Valley, all the others I have seen have been par 3s.  Are there any par 4 or 5 betting holes?

Ed

Ed,

I could see these holes being used for warm-up, similar to the four hole loop at Pine Needles, but on the scorecard under the dormie holes it says something to the effect of "I always thought everyone should have a chance to get even".

Mark

Mark

[Kalen Braley]

Why can't people accept the fact that a tied match is...TIED! 

Isn't a tie like kissing your sister?

But what if your sister is hot?