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Brad Wilbur

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Scotland travel advice
« on: January 06, 2010, 02:37:51 PM »
I am getting close to finishing plans for two weeks golfing in Scotland with my wife.  Advice is welcome.

Arrive May 19 Glasgow---drive to N. Berwick and play in the afternoon.  I know it's out of the way from the rest of the flight plan, but I feel like I've got to see it.  On the 20th, we'll drive to St. Andrews for 6 days, stopping along the way to see Rosslyn Castle (was in The Davinci Code).  I hope to arrive by 2 PM to try and get on the ballot for the OC the next day.  We will stay there for 6 nights, and I could use some advice on the fill-in courses while trying to get on the Old Course.  I will most likely get a time for Sunday at Kingsbarns, since the OC is not open that day  I also assume we'll play the New Course, and try to get to Crail and Elie while biding our time.

After that it's north to play Royal Aberdeen and Cruden Bay, and Castle Stuart.  The last few days we will stay in Dornoch, play Royal Dornoch, Brora, and either Golspie or Dornoch again.  On the way back down to Glasgow, I have tentatively made an appointment to see Nessie.

Maybe more travel than necessary, and there's a chance I'll see more castles and cathedrals than golf courses.  My wife likes rolling dunes and elevation change, so I'm hoping the trip will be  great for her as well.  I'm trusting that amount of time in St. Andrews will get us on the OC, as my September letter for times was not successfull.  Hopefully, the Open won't have created more demand.  Any guidance is welcome.

Scott Warren

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Re: Scotland travel advice
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2010, 02:49:09 PM »
Brad, the drive south past Loch Ness, Urquhart Castle, Fort William and, if you have time, Oban is absolutely worth planning around. It is amazing.

Driving from Glasgow straight to North Berwick is no crazy thing to do. I sometimes wake up in London and think about driving there ;D

Jud_T

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Re: Scotland travel advice
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2010, 02:51:06 PM »
Brad,

Don't forget Carnoustie...Only about 45 minutes from St. Andrews.  Easy day trip....
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Scotland travel advice
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2010, 02:59:53 PM »

Brad

If you are thinking of staying near Oban try out Lerags House (http://www.leragshouse.com/ ) well worth the visit. Its on the Loch and 2.5 miles away down a single track road. My wife and I have enjoyed ourselves. Food good but small portions. Only 6 double rooms but good if you are looking for a quiet stay at night.

Melvyn 


Robin Doodson

Re: Scotland travel advice
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2010, 03:46:04 PM »
If you're driving down the west coast keep going down the mull of kintyre and play Old Machrihanish and Mach Dunes. it is an absolutely stunning drive.

Jason Topp

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Re: Scotland travel advice
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2010, 03:58:28 PM »
Brad:

With respect to the Old Course:

The last time I visited there was also the option of showing up early, getting your name on a list and then filling out groups consisting of less than four people that were willing to allow others to join them.  After failing to succeed in the ballot on many days, a friend and I used that approach and it turned out to be a very enjoyable day.  After getting up early and signing up - we slept for a few hours and then explored the area until we were called to the tee in the early afternoon.


Also - distances are surprisingly short so driving from St. Andrews to play North Berwick, Gleneagles, Carnoustie, Gullane etc. is a very reasonable task.  If your wife wants to do more sightseeing than you, dropping her off in Edinburgh and driving East to play golf for a day before having dinner together might be an enjoyable option for both of you.

Mark Chaplin

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Re: Scotland travel advice
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2010, 04:17:02 PM »
If you need a bed in Dornoch - 3Quail is a very smart restaurant with rooms, very good food and smart bedrooms. The owners are RDGC members.
Cave Nil Vino

David_Tepper

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Re: Scotland travel advice
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2010, 04:25:37 PM »
Mark Chaplin -

The 2 Quail in Dornoch is now a B&B only. The restaurant there has closed.
Michael Carr, who owns the 2 Quail with his wife, has been running the kitchen and cooking at Royal Dornoch since the spring of 2009.
Dinner at the club is now quite good.

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1500056

There is also a new & good chef at the Dornoch Castle Hotel: http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1431325

DT    
« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 04:29:26 PM by David_Tepper »

Cristian

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Re: Scotland travel advice
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2010, 05:07:13 PM »
Try to play Lundin links near St Andrews, very nice.

Also on the way down to Glasgow, if you are not taking the very scenic but very long Loch Ness route, play The Boat of Garten; inland delight.


Marty Bonnar

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Re: Scotland travel advice
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2010, 05:25:36 PM »
Brad,
I'm not certain, but something at the back of my mind is saying that TOC may be CLOSED in May (in prep for The Open). Probably worth a quick email to the Links Trust???
cheers,
FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Bill_McBride

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Re: Scotland travel advice
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2010, 05:27:03 PM »
Mark Chaplin -

The 2 Quail in Dornoch is now a B&B only. The restaurant there has closed.
Michael Carr, who owns the 2 Quail with his wife, has been running the kitchen and cooking at Royal Dornoch since the spring of 2009.
Dinner at the club is now quite good.

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1500056

There is also a new & good chef at the Dornoch Castle Hotel: http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1431325

DT    

After a couple of meals in the Dornoch clubhouse in June 2008, that is good news indeed!  "Undistinguished" would have been a polite critique!

Bill_McBride

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Re: Scotland travel advice
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2010, 05:30:08 PM »
I am getting close to finishing plans for two weeks golfing in Scotland with my wife. 

 My wife likes rolling dunes and elevation change, so I'm hoping the trip will be  great for her as well. 


Brad, I took my wife to North Berwick and St Andrews in July 2005 right before the last Open at the Old Course.  It sounds like we would have a good foursome, as my wife absolutely loved the links courses and dunes, etc and the caddies!  She particulalry loved North Berwick and Crail Balcomie.  Have a great trip.  Try to play Crail, Elie and Lundin, all very fun.

I think the ladies love the links so much because they get a lot of roll.   ;D

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Scotland travel advice
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2010, 05:34:52 PM »
Bill

Should I take that comment (meals) of yours as anti Scottish, or just as it was intended, your open and honest opinion. ;)

Although I could be wrong and maybe detected a hint of negative tone. No - I realise it just you passing on your opinion which is what I believe this site is all about. 8)
 
Melvyn 


Bill_McBride

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Re: Scotland travel advice
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2010, 05:45:14 PM »
Bill

Should I take that comment (meals) of yours as anti Scottish, or just as it was intended, your open and honest opinion. ;)

Although I could be wrong and maybe detected a hint of negative tone. No - I realise it just you passing on your opinion which is what I believe this site is all about. 8)
 
Melvyn 



What I was saying, in my honest way, was that the food in the Dornoch clubhouse - not all of Scotland, just the Dornoch clubhouse - was pretty bad tasting, very mediocre.  The club apparently shared this opinion as they have replaced the "chef" who was in charge during my 5 night visit.

So yes, that was merely me passing on my opinion. Thank you for not chastising me.   ;D

Sean_A

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Re: Scotland travel advice
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2010, 06:23:13 PM »
Brad,
I'm not certain, but something at the back of my mind is saying that TOC may be CLOSED in May (in prep for The Open). Probably worth a quick email to the Links Trust???
cheers,
FBD.

Brad

If the course is open it could well be on mats.  Check!

One course I would strongly consider giving a go is Braid Hills #1.  It might be a welcome break to see how a local muni works for ya.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Sandy Smith

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Re: Scotland travel advice
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2010, 11:43:56 PM »
Brad , check out www.fergusongolf.com . Allan can tell you more about Scotland than any one I have met.
Firm greens, firmer fairways.

Carl Johnson

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Re: Scotland travel advice
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2010, 03:23:00 PM »
Brad,

A couple of others to consider in Fife are the Jubilee Couse at St. Andrews links, which I prefer to the New, and the Craighead Links couse at Crail.  I've not played the latter, but it has a good reputation.  Apparently it is often overlooked by visitors focused on the history of the old Balcomie Links course.  What about Carnoustie?  I think it's kind of a "love it" or "hate it" course.  I'm in the latter category, but plenty of others fall in the former.  In any case, it sounds like you've got a great plan.

True story.  Several years ago we started out at North Berwick.  I flew into Edinburgh and my three friends to Glasgow (all over-night flights from the US).  I took a private car (limo) from the Edinburgh airport without difficulty, then waited, and waited, and waited for the others to arrive in their rental from Glasgow.  They made the tee time, but barely.  Here's how one of the three described their experience:  "We arrived at the Arnold Clark [car rental company] facility near the Glasgow Airport to find, as they inspected our van, that it had a flat.  The spontaneous utterance from the female 'inspector' -- upon noticing the flat -- was 'not again,' which did not inspire confidence.  She seemed content to tell us, however, that 'we would not be charged to repair the flat.'  We had an afternoon tee time in East Lothian, and with construction looming on the M8 and a delayed flight from Philly, we were -- as they say -- needin' to get on.  But rather than provide us with a new vehicle [no other van or spare tire available], Arnold Clark led us to a 'Kwik Fix' facility in Glasgow.  The Arnold Clark driver made some sort of arrangements for payment, and then left, as we awaited our "kwik fix."  Perhaps there are cultural differences between the U.S. and Scotland concerning the meaning of 'kwik,' for we found ourselves waiting about an hour in a tire shop that was outfitted completely with manual (no pneumatic) devices and bizarre paperwork requirements that led to tread depth measurements on tires not in issue.  Although the manager was pleased to learn that we were playing The Glen, and did an apt job in both describing the layout of the first hole and his own personal best '73' on the course, we did not not hit the motorway going east until something close to two hours after we had gathered our bags at the airport.  We were clucking a bit later in the week about the parallels of our experience to those of the poor fellow in the Hertz commercial ('we should have rented a Hertz').  I hope this was an anomaly, and delightfully we did make our tee time."  So, Brad, unless you have the same experience my friends did, driving from Glasgow to North Berwick right off the bat is not a bad idea.

By the way, although the Glen Club (East Links at North Berwick) is not of the quality of the West Links, what most think of as North Berwick golf, we found it to be very enjoyable opening round experience (to be sure, followed by a round on the West Links the next day).
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 03:26:20 PM by Carl Johnson »

Brad Wilbur

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Re: Scotland travel advice
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2010, 07:00:34 PM »
Thanks for all the help so far.  The Ferguson book has been a great help, as mentioned earlier.  I checked on the website for busy dates for the Old Course, but could find no mention of mats.  Right now it looks like x-country skiis might be the best way to get around the course---their website has a picture of some fairly heavy snowfall.

I thought I might leave Carnoustie for a back-up plan, in case we have some open time.  I realize it is a great course, but it certainly provokes divided opinions from those I've queried.  We will be staying at the Aslar in St. Andrews.  It appears small enough to get a better feel for the area, but not so small that you feel like you're in someone's guest bedroom.

Chris DeNigris

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Re: Scotland travel advice
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2010, 07:34:00 PM »
Brad,

Looks like you have some solid suggestions for golf so I'll only enthusiastically endorse Robin's suggestion of visiting Kintyre and playing the new and old of Machrihanish...you won't be disappointed.

While in Fife, if you're searching for a really good dinner out, drive a few miles outside of St Andrews to the little town of Cupar and eat at Ostler's Close.

John Handley

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Re: Scotland travel advice
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2010, 11:39:31 PM »
while a St. Andrews, you MUST play Kingsbarns.  You will not be disappointed.
2024 Line Up: Spanish Oaks GC, Cal Club, Cherokee Plantation, Huntercombe, West Sussex, Hankley Common, Royal St. Georges, Sunningdale New & Old, CC of the Rockies, Royal Lytham, Royal Birkdale, Formby, Royal Liverpool, Swinley Forest, St. George's Hill, Berkshire Red, Walton Heath Old, Austin GC,

James Boon

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Re: Scotland travel advice
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2010, 06:09:20 AM »
Brad,

I'm sure you'll have a great trip, wherever you end up playing!

A couple of things. I just checked the Rosslyn Chapel website, as for some years now its been covered in scaffolding to protect the roof, and though the inside is still interesting it was a shame when I visited that you couldn't stand back and see the whole thing. However, the website suggests the scaffolding may be removed this spring?
http://www.rosslynchapel.org.uk/p/the-chapel-today-I153/

Also, you mention Castle Stuart in the same group as Royal Aberden and Cruden, when its certainly a lot more in the vicinity of Royal Dornoch and Brora as far as travelling and accomodation are concerned.

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Gary Slatter

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Re: Scotland travel advice
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2010, 06:28:03 AM »
Roslyn is worth the visit, village, ruins and chapel are great! special place before Dan Brown.
email john.kerr@fairmont.com    he's the pro and knows every course, etc
or     fraser.liston@fairmont.com  he's operations and can help
They also will get you on the ballot (not possible for a single so they can pair you up).
or email me and I'll refer you to my friends at St Andrews Golf Club who will invite you to play with them on the Thursday morning.
gary.slatter@raffles.com

I hope the frost and snow is gone by then, pretty tough right now, Old Course may reopen in a week!
Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

Tim Johnson

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Re: Scotland travel advice
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2010, 09:28:30 AM »
Brad
The courses that have been suggested so far are very good ones. I would add Panmure, Hogan practiced there prior to the 53 Open at Carnoustie, not a true links course but I love the feel of that course.
If you are going to play Cruden Bay, then you could look at Old Moray, try and play during the week as i played on the weekend. It is right next to Lossiemouth Air Force base and they have signs on some of the tees that say" Beware of sudden jet engine blast". They told us you could hit a landing jet with a 7 iron, they have the landing lights crossing the course. The course itself is a great test and while I wouldnt put it up against the best in Scotland, it is more than worth the time. There is a no fly rule on the weekend but it would have been cool to play a round and also watch these jets coming in for landing( a once in a lifetime sort of thing).
If you are playing Royal Aberdeen then Murcar is right next door and while it is not as great as RA, the courses actually touch at one point so the land is virtually the same.
Royal Dornoch, if you have never played it, play it twice to really get a feel for it and the town. If you are playing in May, the sun wont go down until 10 or 11. My dad and I would go out after dinner with a 7 iron and couple of balls and just walk the course and wack the ball around. We finished one night at 945, it was magical. One regret I had from may 07 was we decided against Brora and that was a mistake.
As for the west, Machrihanish is great and the new Dunes course looks like a great addition but if you are in that neck of the woods(or dunes) I would suggest The Machrie. It is a 2 hour ferry Islay but it is more than worth it. In my mind, this is the best hidden gem in all of Scotland/Ireland. I would equate playing The Machrie to Dornoch. It is a long travel but once you are there, there is nowhere else you would like to be. The hotel is steps away from the 1st tee and the staff are incredible. As my dad and I were checking in, the owner suggested we could have separate rooms as they were not full and only charge us for 1 room. We had another 2 weeks and 13 course to go so a little alone time was not a bad thing. Like Dornoch, we grabbed the 7 irons and played about 7 or 8 holes in the setting sun. You are so far removed from civilization at The Machrie that the golf experience is beyond words. This course would be more highly ranked if it was closer to a bigger population.
Sorry for the long winded response but links golf is an addiction of mine and this is one way to feed that addiction during the cold winter here in Montreal


Jud_T

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Re: Scotland travel advice
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2010, 11:07:38 AM »
Brad,

Don't forget to stop in here for a few beverages and a snack after the round, you'll probably find your caddy there:

http://www.dunvegan-hotel.com/lounge.html
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Ron Csigo

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Re: Scotland travel advice
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2010, 02:49:38 PM »
Dunvegan's is a wonderful place for post round beverages.

Check out the Jigger Inn as well which is attached to the Old Course Hotel.  Neat little restaurant/pub.

http://www.oldcoursehotel.kohler.com/restaurants/jiggers_inn_index.html
Playing and Admiring the Great Golf Courses of the World.

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