[Jud_T]

What with all the courses in the U.S. going under and going public, I have a question.  What is the best course in the UK that runs on the leanest budget? Aside from real estate considerations, seems to me that most of the designs/maintenance in the states are way more than is necessary.  What I'm looking for is a course that has no auxiliary sprinklers other than hand watering of the greens, is semi-private, has a bare-bones snack shop/bar, and is brown barring a rainy season, and is designed to use the land and not need a lot of bunker raking etc...In addition it's probably under 6500 yards from the tips if not 6000.  In other words, the past is future in golf!  Thoughts? Nominations anyone? By the way it doesn't have to be a U.K. course either...

[Scott Warren]

Rye would have to be close as far as on course budget.

The house is nothing over the top, but I'm tipping their grog budget isn't small!

[Adrian_Stiff]

I think the question needs to be more exact.... run the course, run the club. It has to be club really, for a good standard top 200 course I think £500,000 woud be the minimum cost.

[Dick Kirkpatrick]

At a lecture by a Golf Course Supt. in the U.K. a few years ago at the annual convention of the Canadian Golf Course Superintendents Asssociation, the Supt. stated that his annual budget was UNDER L 100,000

[Jim_Kennedy]

Jud,
A friend of mine owned a 9 hole course that was built by Steven Kay and the previous owner. It had some fun holes, like a 210 yard redan that at times called for a driver and at other times a 7 iron. Very exposed, very windy, wery much fun. It was pretty wide open, very little irrigation, a bit of scruffiness to the fairways but bold, smooth, big, and firm greens. Everyone loved it, high to low handicappers.

He spent under 100k per year, 6 years ago, for about 55 acres of golf course. It's since been sold to someone who raises Black Angus on it.     

[Leo Barber]

Here at Paraparaumu Beach we run the whole business for about $700K NZD annually (whats that about $500K US and $350K Euros?).  The course accounts for $350K of this ($220K wages).  As Scott Coan said on another post the other day, "its not pristine, but its pretty damn good".  Fortunately we are not chasing pristine, just good honest links surfaces.  Fairways are irrigated sparingly via qcv/bayonets (genuine 1970s system!) with greens and tees block automatic complimented by intensive handwatering.  Sometimes money can be the death of a good links course - if I had more money I would put it into staff/hand mowing/wetting agents, more aeration and undersowing on fairways. 

[Jud_T]

Leo-

thanx for chiming in-your course is definitely on my "must play" list!

[Adrian_Stiff]

Firsty most UK courses will have a $50,000 per year tax by the goverment before they start (business rates).
4 x greenstaff @ $30,000 = 120,000
1 head green keeper @ 40,000
House manager 40,000
Clubhouse Staff 120,000
Repairs, renewal, depreciation 35,000
Secretary & Admin + insurances, general 100K
Services such water, electric, gas, fone 30k
Sands, dressings, fertiisers, chemicals (minimall ) 15k
Machinery depreciation  50k
Repairs, regrinds 15k
I expect I have forgot ots of stuff..... cant see it less than £500,000 / $750,000 for a decent quality course/ club

[Bill_McBride]

Firsty most UK courses will have a $50,000 per year tax by the goverment before they start (business rates).
4 x greenstaff @ $30,000 = 120,000
1 head green keeper @ 40,000
House manager 40,000
Clubhouse Staff 120,000
Repairs, renewal, depreciation 35,000
Secretary & Admin + insurances, general 100K
Services such water, electric, gas, fone 30k
Sands, dressings, fertiisers, chemicals (minimall ) 15k
Machinery depreciation  50k
Repairs, regrinds 15k
I expect I have forgot ots of stuff..... cant see it less than £500,000 / $750,000 for a decent quality course/ club

Adrian, that 50,000 government tax........is that based on profit earned?

[Adam Lawrence]

Bill - no, business rates are a property tax, levied against the 'rateable value' of your premises (rateable value roughly correlates to what the property might rent for).

[Bill_McBride]

Bill - no, business rates are a property tax, levied against the 'rateable value' of your premises (rateable value roughly correlates to what the property might rent for).

Got it, that's the property tax based on the appraiser's valuation of the property in its "highest and best" use, which might be residential real estate.  That can cause problems in our system.  The tax on profits usually doesn't apply to golf course operations.   

[Tom_Doak]

I need to find out what the real budget is for The Sheep Ranch.  It's not quite 18 holes or 6500 yards, but it's bigger than a nine-hole course.  As far as I know they are still maintaining it with a superintendent and ONE other employee.  It's a little rough around the edges, but that's the idea, anyway.

[Sean_A]

I spose we could all come with wild little exceptions especially if there are no facilities on the spot or a course is part of a bigger operation.  In the UK, Adrian is about right, probably a bit high for the run of the mill club.  I know my club had total expenses of just under £700,000 for the year to Aug 2009.  That isn't particularly unusual for a club of its stature.  I found it interesting that we had £250,000 in visitor fees - ~36% of income.  This gives Americans some idea of how important these fees are and why clubs try to grab some of that pie.  The good news is we have been in the black these past two years. 

I can guarantee that my other club doesn't spend anything like the one above, but I never checked the figures because I can see VERY little is wasted.  I wouldn't be at surprised if I was told total expenditure was under £350,000.

Ciao

[Tom_Doak]

At a lecture by a Golf Course Supt. in the U.K. a few years ago at the annual convention of the Canadian Golf Course Superintendents Asssociation, the Supt. stated that his annual budget was UNDER L 100,000

Dick:  Years ago when I was doing a consulting day at Moortown, England, I asked the superintendent what his budget was and he told me it was thirty thousand pounds!

Upon further questioning I discovered that they did not consider salaries as part of the budget, just materials.  Could be the same for the fellow you listened to.

[Adrian_Stiff]

I cant really see your gonna squeak much inside my figure if its a top 200 course, you will for a Painswick. In the UK we are lucky our Irigation costs are very very low...but we still have some horribe XXXX As TD eluded our budgets can be very low if u dont count staffing/// a decent course needs 5 though.

[Pete_Pittock]

Rye has a great income from the sale of gravel.

[Bill_McBride]

I can guarantee that my other club doesn't spend anything like the one above, but I never checked the figures because I can see VERY little is wasted.  I wouldn't be at surprised if I was told total expenditure was under £350,000.

Ciao

How much do they pay those animals that mow the rough, anyway?   

Pennard has a maintenance regime I really like.  The rough was manageable, the fairways were fast and firm if not lush, and the greens were very nice.  I had no problem with the conditions at all, and look forward to the Buda crowd getting a look at it next year.

[Jud_T]

I wonder what the annual budget at Wolf Point runs? 

[Joe Hancock]

I wonder what the annual budget at Wolf Point runs? 

Considerably less than if it had 200 rounds per day rather than 2....

 

[Mike Nuzzo]

I wonder what the annual budget at Wolf Point runs? 

Don knows better, but pretty near what we planned.
Except he also takes care of a handful of other items of interest to our client.
Cheers

[Bill_McBride]

I wonder what the annual budget at Wolf Point runs? 

Don knows better, but pretty near what we planned.
Except he also takes care of a handful of other items of interest to our client.
Cheers

How's this?

Wolf Point is meticulously maintained in a non-pretentious, delightfully playable manner! 

[Mike Nuzzo]

Not sure what you mean Bill.

I took Jud's comment to be positive.

Don and the crew take care of more than the golf course.
So the budget numbers are hard to track.

Cheers

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