[Rob Rigg]

Color me someone who cannot grasp why Rigg dislikes BD so much.

Well Mike, I am not surprised by your comment.

You cannot grasp why I enjoyed OM so much and you cannot grasp why I prefer the other courses to BD, because that is all I have ever said - when have I ever stated that I "dislike BD"?

"Prefer" and "dislike" are very different words.

BD has some "all world" holes - but I prefer the "total experience" provided by the other routings.

I am looking fwd to going back and playing them all again - maybe my opinion will change - these things are liquid and every experience at a course is a step towards better understanding all that it has to offer. I do not know anyone who has returned from a Bandon trip and not changed their opinion in some way, shape or form about at least one of the courses.

I can grasp why a golfer would prefer one course over any of the others - I do not think it is that hard if you step back and look at all the variables and how they are different, sometimes subtly, at all the courses.

The amazing thing about BDGR is that there are 4 incredible tracks that are far from clones which is fantastic - instead of catering to one kind of golfer they cater to many.

[Michael Dugger]

Whatever, Rob, now you are being prickly.

I grasp plenty of things....just not your hierarchy of the Bandon golf courses.

You came in here and made it sound like Old Macdonald was the greatest thing since sliced bread and that the original BD course was far inferior.

While most of us feel it is prudent to reserve judgement on Old Mac until it is open and has been played a few times...

[Ronald Montesano]

Now Gentlemen, just as Michael has no right to speak for "most of us," nor should we engage in a bitch fest over semantics.  Rob defends his statements well, Michael disagrees, and you'll both drink me under the table if we ever meet up at MacKee's.  I love a spirited debate (see my RTJ thread) and this one is no less.  I'll toss in these two cents:  Bandon Dunes subconsciously gets grief because it is at the center of the resort.  It is not a "fringe" course in location, as are the other three.  This contributes unintentionally to its sometimes-viewed-as-vanilla-when-compared-to-the-others reputation.  I believe that all four, plus Lambchop, plus the 12 hole, will be staples of golfdom for centuries to come.

[Rob Rigg]

Whatever, Rob, now you are being prickly.

I grasp plenty of things....just not your hierarchy of the Bandon golf courses.

You came in here and made it sound like Old Macdonald was the greatest thing since sliced bread and that the original BD course was far inferior.

While most of us feel it is prudent to reserve judgement on Old Mac until it is open and has been played a few times...

Mike,

To each his own - I respect your opinion and everyone else's on the site - but please do not put words in my mouth when I have not used them - "dislike" is a very strong word - again - read what I have said about the courses at Bandon Dunes - they are all fantastic but BD is my least favorite of the four. I believe that I am not the only one who feels this way.

Also - OM, IMO, is the greatest thing since sliced bread and the reports that have been coming in on the full eighteen are just as positive as what Ben, me and others wrote about the preview round, and why would one have thought otherwise?

Are you sure that you are in the "most of us" camp or able to speak for "most of us"?

And what is so confusing about my hierarchy of BD courses - PD/OM, BT and BD - yeah, that's really weird. 

Color me someone who is not understanding what you are adding to this thread because you are commenting on someone else's opinion, actually making up their opinion for them by falsely representing what they have said in the past, instead of clearly articulating your own.

[Jud_T]

guys, they both pale in comparison with pac dunes....and am i the only one that thinks #14 on BT is a silly hole for resort play? MAYBE it would be a great hole for a members course for guys who played it hundreds of times, but for guests who only play it once or twice? I know this is Keiser and C&C's favorite hole, but probably only because they love the idea of all the scorecard and pencil guys walking off with an X and f*cking with their world-view...and I want to see Melvyn hike that hill while shouldering a bag to #14 tee and pass on the tram!!!

[Rob Rigg]

Jud,

I know a bunch of people who say the exact same thing about #14 - you are certainly not alone.

It is definitely a polarizing hole - getting up there is a hike, when you do the view is incredible, the shot required off the tee is very daunting, and a fantastic short game is required to repair the damage if you end up right or back of the green.

#12, #13, #15, and #17 are the stand out great holes for me on the back nine - I love the 17th tee just adjacent to the 16th green, that is a really cool touch.

[Ronald Montesano]

Two things I love about this thread...Number 14 at Bandon Trails, an absolutely great golf hole, and Jud's fervor.  You can't mistake either one.  If we all had the same levels of passion, we'd have one boring site!  Love it!  Don't agree, obviously, on this hole, but love it!!

[Michael Dugger]

14 at BT really does need to be on a members course.  You MUST know what is going on and the danger or it will bite you.

This last time through, my 8th round at BT, I played super cautiously.

Had a 10 footer for par, missed it, took my bogey and smiled.

Scored the best of 8 guys in my crew.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I think the best holes on Bandon Trails are the par 3's and BD the 4's. I feel that BD has more great holes but far more real busts in design and implementation. The only issues at Trails are the walks and distance between a few holes. have them at 5/5 or if forced to make a choice at 6/4 Trails. Trails is the stronger course to me.

[Joe Bentham]

Strikes one, two and three for Chris...

One...17 and 9 are not uninspired at BD.

I have to agree with Chris here -- 9 and 17 (and 18) aren't bad holes, but there's definitely nothing "inspiring" about them, IMHO.  I'd certainly put all three (9, 17, 18) at the bottom of the resort's collection of holes.

Ronald, what do you find is so inspiring about 9 and 17?

I know I am not Ronald, but I find 17 at Bandon to be a great hole.  They have moved the tees up and opened up the left side, neither of which is a positive.  It used to be the most demanding par 4 on the back nine, often requiring a 5 iron to a green that punished the short or right miss.  I actually thought it superior to 16, which was usually a 4 wood and a wedge from the green tees. 

I should note that they didn't formally move the tees up on 17, but had the markers forward on my last visit or two.

I think as it stands today, 17 might be my favorite hole on the back nine on Bandon.  I think the tees being up (so u have to pick the club that dosen't get u through the fairway) and the left being open (tricking golfers into thinking that is the safe side of the hole) are both positives.  Although I wouldn't call either of these 'changes'.  Any gorse that had crept into the left side of the hole wasn't there in 1998-1999.  And I don't think it is suppose to be a long hole.  The placement of the tee shot and the green are the trick.  Love trying to read 150 foot lag putts...

[Ross Waldorf]

Interesting comments, Joe.

Sounds like the opinion of someone who's spent quite a lot of time on that golf course. I don't think I have a very well-formed opinion of 17 yet. I've played the course I think 6 times, so I have some experience but am certainly no regular. 16 is just such a spectacular hole in the way that it looks -- plus there's the possibility of going for the heroic tee shot -- so when I come off that green I'm just not paying close enough attention to the next hole. And I think 17 suffers in the general opinion because of that.

As for me, with no other courses to choose from I'd definitely do a 5-5 split between Bandon Dunes and the Trails. I like 'em both about the same, for different reasons. Personally, I do tend to feel a bit of the "hole in the middle" when I play the Trails, because 8, 9 and 10 just aren't my favorite holes to play at the resort. They're fine, but just don't get me all that amped up. Once I get to 11 I perk up a bit, because I really enjoy hitting that tee shot. From there on in I like the course very much.

[George Freeman]

thought these might add to the discussion...(sorry for fewer pictures of BD; weather was not cooperating that day)

[Ryan Admussen]

well now that that's all cleared up 

[Joe Bentham]

Ross

Never thought of 17 as a aesthetic let down.  Might be the prettiest set of tee boxes on the resort, right on the corner of the bluff.  The views south from most of 17 have been reopened in the last year through a lot of hard work by the maintenance staff.  Can you imagine the view from there once the par 3 course is in just south of there?   

[Ronald Montesano]

Wow, aesthetic letdown?  High standards...I think 16 pales next to 17 and it has three times the length to make its case.

[Ross Waldorf]

Joe (and Ronald): Well, I didn't actually say "aesthetic letdown" exactly, although I probably implied it by the way I wrote my post. And I agree with you that those tee boxes are spectacular. I'm sure it'll be even more incredible once the new par 3 course goes in. I suppose that I'm thinking more about heading back inland in general, and perhaps that the hole is a bit more ambiguous than the couple you've just played -- 15 and 16 do tend to be rather bold, heroic-looking holes.

I'm just trying to understand why 17 seems to get less love when discussing Bandon Dunes. As you've probably noticed -- I'm one of the people who really doesn't get why Bandon Dunes often gets shortchanged on this site when compared to the Trails. Trying to figure that out. And I really like the Trails. But I'll stick happily with an equal number of plays on each if faced with that choice.

[Matt_Ward]

The issue for me with BT is that the opening series of holes -- thru #5 are first rate. Ditto the closing stretch from say the approach to #13 green. It's the middle that really loses its punch.

The issue for me with BD is that the concluding two holes are not really exciting.

I like the stretch in the midpart of the front nine and a few holes on the back. But there are also filler holes which don't have the same ummmph as the others.

Sum it all for me -- it's rather a close call but frankly I would not include either of the two layouts among my personal top 25 public because of the shortcomings I mentioned.

[Ian_L]

I have been to Bandon once and honestly I have not made up my mind which one I would play if I had to choose one.  For those who are confused, here are IMO the two top reasons why Bandon Trails is preferred over Bandon Dunes in this forum:

1. The architect. No, not everyone is biased towards Doak and C&C, but subconsciously it does make a difference.  I know it does for me.  When I play a course designed by someone I like, I tend to appreciate the strategy more.

2. The beauty.  PD blows BD away in this category.  BD has several holes that just feel bland, with some grass-faced bunkers that do not have the aesthetics the other courses enjoy.  In fact, many of the most fascinating holes from a strategic standpoint often look quite plain (such as 11).  Being next to two of the most beautifully shaped courses I have played, this knocks it down in most lists around here.

[Wyatt Halliday]

I take issue with the whole members course/resort course thing.

If someone doesn't figure out that this isn't Doral by the time they hit that first approach on the property, then it's time to turn that ass around and go to the house. Also, Isn't the reason why Bandon is so successful is because we leave our members course and journey to the edge of Oregon? Let's face it, the place isn't right next door.

I also think it's comical that people cite how uninspiring certain stretches of the property are. I know the edict of this thread is to seperate good from great, but the worst 18 hole combination at Bandon beats just about any other resort in a Pepsi challenge.

....and yes Sims, I have successfully removed the shit from my afternoon Cheerios.

[Ben Sims]

I take issue with the whole members course/resort course thing.

If someone doesn't figure out that this isn't Doral by the time they hit that first approach on the property, then it's time to turn that ass around and go to the house. Also, Isn't the reason why Bandon is so successful is because we leave our members course and journey to the edge of Oregon? Let's face it, the place isn't right next door.

I also think it's comical that people cite how uninspiring certain stretches of the property are. I know the edict of this thread is to seperate good from great, but the worst 18 hole combination at Bandon beats just about any other resort in a Pepsi challenge.

....and yes Sims, I have successfully removed the shit from my afternoon Cheerios.

First of all, I'm a Georgia boy and I hate Pepsi.  Secondly, you won the bet and I now have an LSU putter grip.  What are you all upset about!?!? 

Thirdly, I agree with your post 100%.  That's why you're my homie.

Anyone who eschews BD completely in favor of BT should be examined.  Sure Bandon Dunes wouldn't be nearly what it is without the Pacific Ocean.  Sure it isn't as architecturally interesting as C&C's effort.  But I sure as hell would hope that a firm as decorated and experienced as C&C could build something special in a place like Bandon.

Where else in the US had pot bunkers, gorse and fescue with wind and ocean before BD came along?  Don't worry, I'll wait.

[Kalen Braley]

I've been sitting back watching this go back and forth...and I must say I agree with Ben on this one.

To be critical of BD and say its not even worth a play is downright crazy.  Is it likely the "worst" course at the resort?  Probably... I can go along with that. But to say you won't play it because of that, is like saying you would turn down Heidi Klum just because there were a couple of even hotter women in the room.

Bandon Dunes is a top notch course that just happens to be surrounded by a couple of "higher" top notch courses, but just because that is so, doesn't make it dog-meat.  When visitors look in on threads like this one...thats when I gotta believe they are shaking thier heads and thinking wtf?

Just my two cents!!   

[Michael Dugger]

Concur with the esteemed Mr. Braley. 

And I would add that to boast Old Macdonald is better than Pacific Dunes, and to do so before the course is even OPEN, is equally egregious.

[Jud_T]

Kalen,

While I agree that Bandon Dunes is a very good course that gets knocked a bit because of the C & C, Doak bias of many on this site, including myself (at least in the Doak camp), the point is the following: There are a wealth of courses on this property and a limited # of rounds per trip. So why not play the most rounds on the best courses when you are there? There are also considerations like the fact that on summer afternoons the oceanside courses can get REALLY F*CKING WINDY!!!  So frankly when we go back I'll probably fit in 1 round on BD and 1 or 2 on BT, mainly to appease the rest of my sordid contingent, but will play 2-3 times each on PD and OM....

[Jed Peters]

Probably... I can go along with that. But to say you won't play it because of that, is like saying you would turn down Heidi Klum just because there were a couple of even hotter women in the room.

I'd definitely include Heidi on the mix-in.

And I play BD once per trip.

[Kalen Braley]

Jud and Jed,

Good to hear!! 

And to clarify, I'm by no means advocating that one should spend the majority of thier rounds at BD during a trip there.  Was only saying that if you made the effort to get there and had time for 6+ rounds, it would be borderline nuts not to get in at least 1 on each course.

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