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Mike_Young

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Leonardo da Vinci exhibit and GCA relationship
« on: October 14, 2009, 02:48:19 PM »
Read the below article   http://www.accessatlanta.com/atlanta-events/high-gives-glimpse-of-155089.html

In another thread I was mentioning how GCA will evolve in the next few years.....think about in the light of this article.....the craft will not germinate in a vacuum......


Leonardo da Vinci is one of the great Renaissance men of all time. Not only a peerless artist, he was also a skilled engineer, avant-garde scientist and inventor. There’s no hyperbole in the title of the High Museum of Art’s new exhibition: “Leonardo da Vinci: Hand of the Genius.”

Yet, as you’ll see when the show opens Tuesday, genius doesn’t germinate in a vacuum.

Leonardo came of age in one of the most glorious periods in Western culture, when knowledge expanded, humanism took hold and culture bloomed. His artistic brilliance was rooted in his times and grounded in the artists who preceded him.

As guest curator Gary Radke wrote in his book “Art in Renaissance Italy,” this was a period where art mattered. Civic pride, piety, appreciation of beauty and, of course, the status of patronage found voice in an outpouring of art. The Florence of Leonardo’s youth was a creative hotbed. He could absorb the lessons of the best and brightest merely by walking its streets and visiting its churches.

Since Leonardo’s contribution to sculpture is the focus of this exhibition, Radke has included works by sculptors Donatello and Andrea del Verrocchio to set the stage. Art giants themselves, both had a great impact on the young Leonardo.

Donatello, represented by “Bearded Prophet,” a 6-foot-tall figure commissioned for Florence’s campanile, was one of the early adopters of the values and aesthetics of antiquity, which were catalysts for Renaissance art. He married the celebration of the human body with an empathy for the human psyche.

The Renaissance chronicler Giorgio Vasari recounts a story in which Donatello, standing in front of one of this sculptures, was heard to mutter, “Speak, damn you, speak.”

Verrocchio was Leonardo’s teacher. As an apprentice in the sculptor’s studio, he learned the nuts and bolts of his craft. Verrocchio made use of a team of apprentices to fulfill complex and numerous commissions that came out of his atelier. He required not only a competent staff but also one trained to mimic his style.

This leads to some interesting problems of attribution. When an apprentice surpasses his teacher, as did Leonardo, scholarly efforts to discern his hand in workshop pieces become more than a parlor game.

Radke made news recently when he proposed that two of the figures in “The Beheading of St. John the Baptist ” (1477–1483) relief for Verrocchio’s silver altar of the Florence Baptistery are the work of Leonardo.

That relief, which has never left Florence, is on exhibit at the High.

If Radke’s supposition bears out, you’ll be getting the first stateside look at the hand of genius-in-the-making.
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Leonardo da Vinci exhibit and GCA relationship
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2009, 08:09:34 PM »
So where is the creative hotbed?  Or is it your argument that the lack of GCA right now b/c of the lack of courses being developed will negatively affect future generations of GCAs.

Not sure I buy this b/c the present generation of good GCA's arent studying the work of their immediate predecessors or the ones who would be creating the "creative hotbed."  They studied the work of the dead.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Mike Sweeney

Re: Leonardo da Vinci exhibit and GCA relationship
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2009, 09:28:17 PM »

In another thread I was mentioning how GCA will evolve in the next few years.....think about in the light of this article.....the craft will not germinate in a vacuum......


Mike,

I wish I understood da Vinci more than I do. It is so hard to compare this generation with that generation. You could live in Italy for nothing in that era, and still live well. Da Vinci could afford to go blind in The Vatican in that era. How can the modern artist (GCA) compete with The Vatican and Pine Valley? You have a P&L, you have an owner that has to sell memberships, you have environmental restrictions that Hugh Wilson and da Vinci would laugh at all of these.

da Vinci was motivated/scared by/driven by The Vatican. Not saying that the modern artist/GCA does not have individual motivation, but it is not societal or spiritual like da Vinci and his peers were exposed to.

Even Michael Phelps can't compete:



« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 09:34:49 PM by Mike Sweeney »

Jaeger Kovich

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Re: Leonardo da Vinci exhibit and GCA relationship
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2009, 09:36:06 PM »
So are you saying Pete Dye is Leonardo? Or is Pete Dye actually Verrocchio and you know who Leonardo?


... I love renaissance and baroque art, and have taken plenty of classes on the subject!

Jaeger Kovich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Leonardo da Vinci exhibit and GCA relationship
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2009, 09:37:52 PM »
Hey... I know someone who owns a company named RENAISSANCE golf design!

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Leonardo da Vinci exhibit and GCA relationship
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2009, 09:52:56 PM »
Guys,
The article says:
"Yet, as you’ll see when the show opens Tuesday, genius doesn’t germinate in a vacuum.

Leonardo came of age in one of the most glorious periods in Western culture, when knowledge expanded, humanism took hold and culture bloomed. His artistic brilliance was rooted in his times and grounded in the artists who preceded him."

I AM SAYING WE MIGHT HAVE A VACUMM FOR A FEW YEARS....AND WE MAY NEVER HAVE THE VOLUME WE HAVE HAD THE LAST 20...THERE MIGHT BE A GENERATION OF POTENTIAL "GCA GENIUS" THAT NEVER GETS A CHANCE....THAT'S ALL....
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Leonardo da Vinci exhibit and GCA relationship
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2009, 09:54:02 PM »
"The Dude" abides.  Geez Mike, heavy.  

I think when you compare and contrast the teacher and the student, two things should be of utmost importance.

1) Fundamentals are fundamental.  Didn't Yogi Berra say that?  I digress.  In any and every field out there of which there is discernible art, there must be basics.  In the field of GCA, I would say that these involve certain "rules" about drainage, spacing, site severity, etc.  The fundamentals are established by the teacher and practiced by the student.  It's debatable as to whether ANY aspect of art is fundamental enough to warrant it completely objective to the comparison, but my point stands.  Is what you are comparing a fundamental aspect of the art, generic to the art?  If yes, then the teacher/student comparison is invalid.

2) The Peter Principle basically says this: in a hierarchy every employee tends to rise to his level of incompetence.  In the case of Da Vinci--to me--it means that Da Vinci rose to his own level of greatness despite whomever his teacher was.  It's not as if he needed no teaching--the Peter Principle also talks about how EVERYBODY had someone to push them along, no one is really self made--but once he mastered Verrocchio's apprenticeship, he continued on at his own level of incompetence, not Verrocchio's.  When contrasting teacher to student, the individual skill comparison must be made at an objective level.  Was Da Vinci a product of his own mind or of Verrocchio's?

Now. How all of this ties specifically into GCA, I'm not smart enough to really know.  But I think that new talent and more importantly, new CREATIVE talent is the catalyst that keeps any venture fresh and successful.  In the current market--it would seem--that you guys are seeing less and less of it.  How this affects the teachers and thie future?  It's a self licking ice cream cone.  No business equals no opportunity to teach fundamentals and therefore no creative "newness".  

How do you think the business can sustain this teacher/apprentice approach to your art?
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 09:56:09 PM by Ben Sims »

Mike Sweeney

Re: Leonardo da Vinci exhibit and GCA relationship
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2009, 10:07:24 PM »


I AM SAYING WE MIGHT HAVE A VACUMM FOR A FEW YEARS....AND WE MAY NEVER HAVE THE VOLUME WE HAVE HAD THE LAST 20...THERE MIGHT BE A GENERATION OF POTENTIAL "GCA GENIUS" THAT NEVER GETS A CHANCE....THAT'S ALL....

I agree and since you are calling for the return of the $30-50 green fee, I don't think that model has a chance of artistic success.

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Leonardo da Vinci exhibit and GCA relationship
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2009, 08:54:50 PM »
BUMP

Phil McDade

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Re: Leonardo da Vinci exhibit and GCA relationship
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2009, 09:24:05 PM »
Maybe we need more political upheaval and unrest, per Orson Welles:

"You know what the fellow said—in Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace—and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Leonardo da Vinci exhibit and GCA relationship
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2009, 11:28:51 PM »
Maybe we need more political upheaval and unrest, per Orson Welles:

"You know what the fellow said—in Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace—and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."

Good point Phil.  

Cypress Point Club in 1928 and Pacific Dunes in 2001.  The Presidents at the time?  Legendary leaders like Coolidge/Hoover and Bush.

Where'd Mike go?

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Leonardo da Vinci exhibit and GCA relationship
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2009, 02:52:30 PM »
Maybe we need more political upheaval and unrest, per Orson Welles:

"You know what the fellow said—in Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace—and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."

As a great artist himself (Welles) he definitely seems to see what tension and unrest in society spawns, particularly social/cultural and political upheaval and creative progressive thinkers VS conservative status quo flat earthers.  In Michelangenlo and da Vinci's times, the conservatives almost won out the day (puritan keepers of the status quo, i.e. Savanarola and the anti-intellectual wing of the Vatican vis-a-vis the persecution of Galileo).  In our times we have that tension of flat earthers, status quo types and progressive thinkers, it seems to me. 

But on the economic front, we have great artists who need patrons for their expression, and the vacuum as now exists is not so much slow economic times so much as wealth entities or municipalities (many city states in Renaissance Euro at the time hired these artists under great debate) keeping the top artists employed either via private wealth ego or sense of providing community culture and enjoyment, or locale or city/county/state social decisions or principles to patronise the arts and make a statement, or combo of all of these.

But, thankfully we do have enlightened patrons like Bakst, Keiser, Kohler, or minicipalities like the county where Chambers Bay is located, and other non-profits who still seek the best artist/craftsman of the times, as they evaluate them, and sponsor to build great golf courses.  Just not so many projects right now.  But, the GCArchitect/artists are out there, as are the status quo schlock meisters archies.  Some follow the artists inclination to meld art and nature and do creative work; others following conservative big profit asperations that will not rock the creative design boat of GCA.

I'm waiting for one of the huge ego archies of our times to do like the renaissance artists did, and as history names them, and go by their first names as their defining moniker, like Leonardo, Michelangelo, Galileo, and maybe we'll get GCAs with monikers of just Tom, (too many Toms)  Peter, or Paul, or Mary, and Jack and Jill..  ::)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Phil McDade

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Re: Leonardo da Vinci exhibit and GCA relationship
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2009, 03:55:42 PM »
RJ

Well, the quote more appropriately should've been attributed to Harry Lime (played by Welles), the protagonist in Carol Reed's "The Third Man," along with Casablanca maybe the best movie both about WW II and made in black and white. Lime, an evil person, justifies his actions in war-torn Vienna to his good friend with the above quote.

But, you probably knew that already. ;)

RJ_Daley

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Re: Leonardo da Vinci exhibit and GCA relationship
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2009, 04:14:21 PM »
No I didn't know that.  But now I see Reed directed "the Agony and the Ecstasy" movie, the book by Stone, that I read a couple of times way back in H.S., and enjoyed greatly.  So, Reed seems to be on top of the whole Renaissance society of creative tensions milieu thing... I guess.  ::)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Anthony Gray

Re: Leonardo da Vinci exhibit and GCA relationship
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2009, 04:50:25 PM »


  So if Leonardo was alive today, would his genius prevail or would he be in a vacuum?

  Anthony


RJ_Daley

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Re: Leonardo da Vinci exhibit and GCA relationship
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2009, 05:43:59 PM »
If Leonardo was alive today, he'd probably be running a invention think tank like Dean Kamen, who seems to be existing just fine and no vacuum.  Leo would do just fine now, I believe.   But, to my knowledge, Kamen can't sculpt or paint... just thinks and invents very well.  Can someone else come up with a modern day Leo type?  I fairly sure there aren't any GCAs that are in Leo's league, in actuality. 
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

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