Is Texas HOT, or not?

[Mike_Cirba]

Looking through the Golf Digest state rankings, perhaps no other state in the union has as much activity as Texas.

After years of languishing in terms of quality courses, is Texas the new hotbed of course building activity?  

Consider the following;

No less than 8 brand new courses cracked the Top 25.  They include Carlton Woods (5), Briggs Ranch (6), Royal Oaks (10), Tribute (14), Deerwood (18), Pine Dunes (19), La Cantera (Palmer) (21), Hill Country (23).

Somewhat strangely, the Fazio course at Barton Creek dropped from 12 to 24, almost off the list.  Old favorite The Quarry in San Antonio fell from 13 to 21.  

The original Weiskopf/Morrish design at La Cantera (site of the Texas Open) fell completely off the list!

Even more surprisingly, heralded newcomers such as C&C's Austin Golf Club and Jeff Brauer's Cowboys GC failed to make the list.  

With Doak's Texas Tech course and Fazio's big-budget Dallas National (which Lou Duran likes a LOT) coming on board this year, is there a more dynamic state for golf courses at present?

What goes on there in the heart of Texas?  Is it all good?

Is it finally becoming a "destination" for the golf course afficianado?

[Joe Hancock]

Mike,

Texas is a destination for me now that Don mahaffey has a course there!

Joe

[Matt_Ward]

Mike C:

You missed out on the state that is a neighbor to Texas -- New Mexico. When things get hot in Texas the golf crowd there actually ventures to the Land of Enchantment for golf opportunities. If someone wants good to really good golf offerings without using multiple credit cards then just west of the Lone Star State.

A few areas to check -- the Santa Fe area with the new and exciting Black Mesa set to open, Pinon Hills in Farmington. Paa-Ko Ridge, Twin Warriors, Univ of NM and Santa Ana (Tamaya / Cheena) in the greater Albuquerque area, to name just four. Heck, I'll claim the dynamic Ken Dye design Painted Dunes Desert GC in El Paso as being nearer to NM than it is for much of Texas!

As big as Texas is -- minus the new Doak and TF design you mentioned, the state is still trying to establish itself as a golf destination of the first order -- I mean ask yourself this -- who in his right mind can stand playing summer golf in Houston and the Gulf Coast area? If I had to mention an area to watch it's the hill country just west of Austin -- superb terrain and relatively pleasant weather conditions.

[Andy Hodson]

Mike

There is alot of upheaval in the state. Interesting to look at the top 10. Its a mix of old "classics" and real new courses. Seems like very few of those built in the '80s stood the test of time. (Though without facts handy, that supposition could be wrong.....Lou D., Steve Lang,  any help with this?)

Top 10 classics:
Colonial (1)
Brook Hollow (2)
Champions (4)
Preston Trail (7)
River Oaks (9)

And, if I am not mistaken, the rest of the top ten: Whispering Pines, Carlton Woods, Briggs Ranch, Shadow Hawk, and Royal Oaks (Houston) are all less than 4 years old. Which would explain why all the upheaval in the list. So, yes, good things are happening in the state.

BTW ... an invitation to the #3 in the state is open and standing.

[Mike_Cirba]

Andy;

Thank you very much.  I do hope to be able to take you up on that before too long.

I understand that the fellows really enjoyed their outing at WP not long ago, and had some really good things to say about the course.  

Interestingly, the Nicklaus website lists the architect of WP as Bill O'Leary.  Is that the whole story?  

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Mike you will enjoy Andy's hospitality. I believe you met one of his members, Russell Schlattman with me at Bandon. I would love to play there again soon. However, there is a high price to pay the next time I see Andy. lol I think Andy hit the nail on the head as for the reasons for the major changes. I will be surprised if the Palmer course at LaCanterra is stronger than the Weis/Morrish. I plan to play all or most of the above this year though.

[Andy Hodson]

Mike

I'm not sure Bill O'leary has ever stepped foot on the property (nor has Jack himself).

I asked Chet Williams, the real architect here, about that. He said Jack uses his sons-in-law as the name architect on Nicklaus Design projects. I forget the reason why. But Chet is the architect here. He did one helluva job fleshing out the routing that our owner had in place for about 6 years before the Nicklaus group came in. Interesting story there.

[Mike_Cirba]

Andy;

I'll be interested in hearing the details, I'm sure.  Is Chet Williams an architect by trade, or was it a labor of love by a first-time designer?

Please say hello to Rusty Schlattman for me!  I met him in Kiawah and Bandon, and he's a really enjoyable fellow.

John (Tiger);

Thanks for the reminder!  

[Andy Hodson]

And, yes, Tiger (may I call you Eldrick?) there is a high price to pay when next we meet.

I thought I had the perfect chapaeu for you the other day. But, alas, the "Regional Champions" hat had too much purple and yellow, surrounding the longhorn,  on it for my taste. I will stick with the basic burnt orange. Or would you prefer white. The sharpie probably would show up better.  

[tyelder]

Weiskoft is building a new TPC course north of Dallas. I understand it should be open in 2004-2005.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Andy, the classic white with orange horns only is nice if one is a cow person. Naturally, I would not be one. I have a 2nd id for use at the office. The yabba boys will not let me sign on as John Bernhardt here lol

[Lou_Duran]

Mike-

I've argued on this site, obviously not very persuasively, that Texas golf is greatly underrated.  Our courses, while lacking the natural beauty of a CPC and the pedigree of a NGLA, are fine tests of all aspects of one's game.  It is not by accident that Texas produces so many great golfers.

Is Texas an end destination for a gca aficionado?  Probably not.  With the exception of Colonial, the courses here do not have the history or tradition that often impresses these folks.  And as noted earlier, for the most part, we also lack the dramatic land forms and large bodies of water.  However, for most golfers seeking quality golf at reasonable prices, by all means, Texas is worthy of their consideration.

In Texas as elsewhere, we are the beneficiaries of the golf construction boom in that many of the new courses developed were done with better planning, by more expert designers, and with adequate budgets.  The overall product built since the 90s is considerably better than what was available before, though perhaps not at the top end.  Not until now!

I have only played Dallas National once, but I greatly liked what I saw.  I hope to see the top 10 in the state this year  and it would not surprise me if DN placed comfortably within that list.  It is on a very unusually hilly site, and much tought as well as $$$$ went into its development.

For those who are interested, the Dallas Morning News publishes an annual ranking each March, and here are its top 20 in Texas (* denotes public access):

1.  Colonial
2.  Champions-Cypress Creek
3.  Crown Colony
4.  Brook Hollow
5.  Barton Creek-Fazio Foothills*
6.  Preston Trail
7.  Lochnivar
8.  Horsehoe Bay-Ram Rock*
9.  Austin Country Club
10. Walden on Lake Conroe
11. River Oaks
12. Whispering Pines
13. The Hills CC
14. Shady Oaks
15. Barton Creek-Canyons*
16. Northwood
17. Pine Dunes*
18. Royal Oaks
19. Mira Vista
20. Club at Carlton Woods
 

[Jeff_Brauer]

Mike,

Chet Williams is an architect by trade.  He graduated from the Texas A and M program about 1988 and worked for me briefly.  I think he also had a one year summer intern for Finger, Dye, Spann.  He is a talented guy, and has had a bit of good training .

I'm sure begs Jack to let him do any project in Texas so he can get home to see his family and in laws, having married a Texas girl from Waco.

The Dallas Morning News list that Lou shared also uses tradition heavily.  I understand they relaxed that a bit this year, but formerly, a course got most of its points by being on previous years lists!  its hard for new courses to break through.

Texas is pushing itself as a golf destination now, and friends have sent me similar articles from papers in Michigan to Florida, obviously put out by the tourist board and modified somewhat.  It still doesn't have the breadth of classic courses, for sure, of a NY, Chicago or Philly, but the solid middle level courese, and the new public access courses do provide most golfers with an outlet for their passion.

[Forrest Richardson]

Yes. I was in Dallas in June once at it was hot.

[Lou_Duran]

Forrest,

Sure its hot here, but that doesn't prevent us die-hards from walking 18 holes mid-day in August.  Believe it or not, even in hot, humid Houston, golf is played on foot (by some) in  summer.  Playing in Columbus on a beautiful July day (89 degrees with equal or greater humidity) many years ago, my friends were giving it to me for having moved to that hell-hole called Dallas.  As I looked at them, their shirts drenched in sweat, I realized that the Texas heat is not all that bad.  Besides, while NY and the upper midwest had snow the last few days, the weather was delightful here.  When it comes to weather and golf, Texas is far superior than average.  There is got to be a reason why people keep moving here, and as our Dem friends like to remind us, it can't be because of the good schools, access to free healthcare, or clean air!  

[tyelder]

Lou,

I love Texas. I have been to Texas maybe 25 times and have never had a bad time. I actually like it alot better than the D.C. area.

Quality golf appears to be booming with the likes of Whispering Pines, Pine Dunes, Carlton Woods and now Dallas National. I have heard very good things about Fazio's latest.

I also think west of Austin may be the next frontier. How is the water supply in Texas? Have you played the Austin Golf Club?

[Forrest Richardson]

Lou -- I walked (WALKED) Papago Municipal here in Phoenix in mid-July 1997 and it was 115-degrees (115). Say, do you-all wear sweaters when it's only in the high 80s?

[Lou_Duran]

tyelder,

Water is a problem, perceived or real, in the San Antonio area, and probably in Austin as well.  Austin also has the enviro-wackos attached to the university, and a sizable no-growth crowd similar to those more commonly found in CA and OR.  And while the topography is more interesting out there, the soil is usually rocky and poor.  Also hampered by a poor road system, I don't know that that area has that much promise for golf.  Houston has many quality courses, and seems to be weathering the down cycle better.  As in many places, Texas has an oversupply of courses, and things will probably get worse for the industry before they get better.  It is good for the average consumer, though I am concerned about the quality of the product going down.  

[Lou_Duran]

Forrest,

No, but I have seen furs and leather coats at football games in the fall when the temperatures are in the upper 70s!  In North Texas one is more likely to see a roughneck wearing shorts and short sleeves in 40 degree weather.  Goretex rainsuits and heavy sweaters are not commonly found in one's locker.  We would never play in weather like we had in Bandon three weeks ago.  There are just too many other good days to enjoy golf.  BTW, I too played in 110+/- degrees in AZ, at Desert Forest.  It was quite comfortable with a breeze augmenting the air flow from our speeding cart!

[Jeff_Brauer]

The water supply in Dallas is great!  The city apparently used much, if not all of its WPA funds in the depression to build large resevoirs that collect all rainfall from the Red River south.  In 19 years here, I can only recall a few instances of reduced lawn watering required.

Houston also has few water problems.  San Antonio has a state mandated "Water Plan" and when the acquifer drops to  certain levels, different types of watering bans kick in.  On golf courses, the worst gets them down to hand watering greens and tees only.  

The issue in Austin is primarily development over the Edwards aquifer, and its effect on water quality.  Naturally, golf courses come in for their share of criticism.  Come to think of it, the new PGA village in San Antonio was derailed (perhaps temporarily) because it was proposed to be built over the same aquifer.

In West Texas, like Midland and El Paso, salts are an issue.  Apparently, wells have taken enough water out of the ground, that the remaining salt levels are high.  In the Rio Grande valley, I understand there is an ongoing dispute between Mexico and the US concerning Mexico taking more than their allocation of water from the river, and the US wanting it back. We did a course down there, fed from old agricultural wells, and in some years, they have had shortages.

[Steve Lang]

,

73 F today and beautiful.. in Houston.  

In the summer we play with 8-9 clubs, 4 balls and a pint of water and walk early or real late, get out of the sun, and go swimming at night!

Far and away the destination in TX is San Antonio.  Fairly good flights into and out, central location for driving from many parts of the state on I-35 and I-10.. your basic Fiesta Texas Amuzement park / La Cantera Resort complex... others in the area, like older Tapatio Springs have good stay and play packages, more new upscale venues like Canyon Springs GC, or try remodeled Pecan Valley and other old courses for some historical venues.. new stuff like The Bandit east of SA, or The Falls at New Ulm,..

I can believe the Weiskoff/Morrish at LaC falling off the radar, i like the new Palmer course better.. more scenic, more golfing stress induced, great greens
  
The new PGA venture is back on track, they went out into the county to get away from city politics..

I can't believe Walden on Lake Conroe having such a high rating from DMN!

What ever happended to Waterwood's ratings, Pet Dye's famed course near Andy?  We played it the other week and it was in good condition.. but the surrounding resort looks real old now..

For the public in the greater Houston area, there are easily 30 courses that are fun to play and offer some good value, diversity, and relatively low cost, especially with coupons and GOLFQ.COM offers available..

I will continue to question why anyone cares about ratings of private courses.  Seems like pure ego issues there.  Carlton Woods for instance, in my backyard, do you really want to pay 120$ to play a round of golf as a guest?  For braggin rights yeh..

Bottom line issues and convenience count down here with the masses.. even though pipe-fitters and other craftsmen make $75k+... gotr your foursome.. go out an play... take Battleground in Deer Park or the Bayou GC in Texas City ..please .. but they're often packed.  Some will drive an hour+ to play, but many draw the line there..  Remember you can go 40 miles in any direction from Downtown Houston and find quite acceptable public golf.. that's 6400 square miles of golfing adventure folks!  

[Matt_Ward]

Lou:

Love the promo push for The Lone Star State. Heck, my brother has a place on the Gulf near Padre Island and I know from whence you speak BUT ...

Given the size of Texas and the amount of people who inhabit the state the amount of sound quality golf offerings is really quite limited. If you look at just about any source that lists the best of Texas golf you really start fishing for credible candidates after the first 10-15 -- this for a state so large it has two time zones! Heck, what's amazing to me is that a course like Ram Rock in Horseshoe Bay (a layout I like a lot) is STILL among the best courses even after being opened for a number of years AND even after a tad full number of new courses have come on line.

Texas has become the "Florida" for golf with numerous dead flat layouts that have become the "hook" to grab cold Northerners seeking to grab a healthy size lot (it would not be Texas if you didn't have your McMansion). Like I said I love certain parts -- the hill country of Austin is outstanding and I'm a big fan of Ken Dye's Painted Dunes Desert GC in El Paso for its design and affordbaility,  but Lou -- common -- the stifling heat and humidity of the Gulf Coast during summer months has no peer -- with the possible exception being our nation's capital.

P.S. Nonetheless, I'm hoping to see what Tom Doak is able to do at Texas Tech in Lubbock. He's got a great opportunity to reorder a few things given the s-l-i-m pickins.

[Lou_Duran]

Matt,

You are not only fortunate to live in the middle of the best golf in the world, but more importantly, you have access to these courses.  It must be hell for the average golf enthusiast in NY/NJ to have an NGLA or PV nearby with no prospects of ever steppping on the course.  I can see why Texas would not appeal to you.

Yes, our summer weather can be hot, and sticky in some places.  Compared to what I played in at Bandon a few weeks ago, it ain't bad at all here.  The Houston Golf Association has a very active amateur schedule during the summer which permits walking and their competitive rounds often take less than four hours (on 7,000+ yard courses at sea level).   Playing in the heat, like in most adverse weather, is just another test of will.  Some people handle it better than others.

More importantly, every major metropolitan area has several courses which I would consider worthy of the effort to get on.  And you would be surprised how many good courses there are in the smaller towns and rural areas.  As the state continues to populate, our inventory of quality courses increases.  There is some very good, accessible golf here, and the terrain is much more varied than what you think.

[Matt_Ward]

Lou:

Thanks for your detailed reply. I'm going to be doing a major round-up of "new" courses in the Lone Star State later this year -- I'll likely be visiting Tom Doak's new effort in Lubbock. If you, or any other fans of the state, have any meaningful suggestions please either post them on this thread or e-mail me offline.

Lou, I don't doubt there is some terrain offerings in Texas worth a look (i.e. the Hill county, to name just one), but you need to place it in some sort of proportion. I don't doubt huge progress has been made, but there's so much more that needs to happen before the state becomes a first page destination place for the discerning golfer.

P.S. I do like playing in hot and humid conditions -- one of my best experiences came in playing in the 1981 USGA PubLinks at Bear Creek in Houston.

[Steve Lang]

Matt Ward,

You're not going to get away with nubbing TX that way..  it seems your experience and the way you're relating to things in the Lone Star State to the GCA masses is contradicted by an article on your beloved Bear Creek.. the very general descriptions from 1981.. found at:

http://www.golftexas.com/hunter2.htm

Dead flat layouts?  Do you mean like in glaciated Northwestern Ohio, and Northern Indiana, & Illinois and Southern Michigan?  Definitely no worthwhile golf courses in those flat areas... huh?

What is topographically "some sort of proportion"..  does a 200 yd par three with 80 feet of drop to an angled green with meandering river in back ground qualify?  Try ColoVista near Bastrop.

What is a discerning golfer?  Is that code for NY been there done than on Long Island's exclusive courses?

I can remember 1964 at Far Rockaway beach and being at the Worlds Fair in some super sweltering heat that easily matches what Houston has.. but in the NE its national news.. what's wrong with 95/75 F for june-Aug?