News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Matt_Ward

Re: Southern Dunes GC Maricopa, AZ (Pics)
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2010, 02:11:59 AM »
Played SD when it was the men's club and liked the course - clearly presents a much more variable "desert" theme concept without the overly harsh "either or" style that often prevails for much of the higher end layouts in Scottsdale.

Nonetheless, I believe Curley / Schmidt did a better job with Shadow Ridge in Palm Desert, CA. Just really cool and well-placed bunkers for the Palm-Springs area layout.

One other thing -- agree 100% w Tom Y about the walkability dimension of SD.


Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Southern Dunes GC Maricopa, AZ (Pics)
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2010, 04:44:24 AM »
...  I suspect in that sort of environment that hard seam lines are difficult to avoid.  IMO its a problem with desert golf though I have seen it pulled off very well once or twice. 

In a different but similar sort of way I have the same problem with parkland courses and trees being the constant visual boundary, but again, some placed pull it off much better than others and it usually means having far less trees or a site where the vistas are tree-filled. 

I don't know why I ever became so obsessed with the boundaries and seams on courses.  Perhaps it is because I think so little attention is paid to this element of design that it sticks out like a whore in Buckingham Palace.

Ciao

Sean,

I've noted your stated dislike for the hard edge grass to desert transitions but I've yet to see how it can be done otherwise.  The problem is that for the most part, there is really no native grass in the desert, it is just rock.  You can let the bermuda runners spread out away from the turf boundry but essentially you will still have the hard transition from grass to rock. And the result is unmowable and for me, even more unsightly.

I'm interested to know where you have seen it pulled off to your liking and if anyone has pictures of these transitions.

Fact is, green grass in the desert is "unnatural" and I've not seen any examples of a seamless transition between the turf and the native areas, at least here in the Sonoran desert of Arizona.



Tom

I wish I could remember which course I saw pix of which really did a great job with the transitions.  It was probably a C&C, but I just can't remember.  That said, I remember that sand and a great variety of desert plants were used in the transition zones which ate into fairway space to break up viewing lines.  It was obvious that a lot of time was spent on transitions and it showed. 

I am put off by by poor transitions, but I also understand the limitations of desert golf - which imo is one reason why it is less than ideal terrain for golf.  However, if the price was right, I would certainly give the course (and other of the same ilk in the desert) a go, but I wouldn't pay a steady diet of $100 plus take the time to get to the desert.  With few exceptions I just don't see the architecture being compelling enough to overcome the shortcomings of the desert, but I am cognizant of my good fortune to have better choices available to me.

Ciao 

New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Ryan Farrow

Re: Southern Dunes GC Maricopa, AZ (Pics)
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2010, 07:24:06 PM »
The course looks great in both colors. These are from today.









Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Southern Dunes GC Maricopa, AZ (Pics)
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2010, 08:00:32 AM »
I love that brown look. I can't wait to play it this weekend.
Mr Hurricane

Tom Yost

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Southern Dunes GC Maricopa, AZ (Pics)
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2010, 08:15:52 AM »
Hey Ryan,  good to see you back in town.  We should get together, maybe go out for some Chinese food ??  ;D



Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Southern Dunes GC Maricopa, AZ (Pics)
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2010, 10:45:48 AM »
I haven't played Southern Dunes but it looks like it's worth a visit. How far is it from the PHX airport?
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Tom Yost

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Southern Dunes GC Maricopa, AZ (Pics)
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2010, 12:26:56 PM »
I haven't played Southern Dunes but it looks like it's worth a visit. How far is it from the PHX airport?

35 miles according to Google Maps.  45 minutes give or take.


Tom Yost

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Southern Dunes GC Maricopa, AZ (Pics)
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2010, 12:49:11 PM »
Tom

I wish I could remember which course I saw pix of which really did a great job with the transitions.  It was probably a C&C, but I just can't remember.  That said, I remember that sand and a great variety of desert plants were used in the transition zones which ate into fairway space to break up viewing lines.  It was obvious that a lot of time was spent on transitions and it showed. 

I am put off by by poor transitions, but I also understand the limitations of desert golf - which imo is one reason why it is less than ideal terrain for golf.  However, if the price was right, I would certainly give the course (and other of the same ilk in the desert) a go, but I wouldn't pay a steady diet of $100 plus take the time to get to the desert.  With few exceptions I just don't see the architecture being compelling enough to overcome the shortcomings of the desert, but I am cognizant of my good fortune to have better choices available to me.

Ciao 

As a matter of fact, I played Talking Stick North a couple of weeks ago and the transitions between turf and desert went unnoticed by me.  Not that I look for these things, but maybe that is a good sign that the boundaries are incorporated in a way that doesn't produce a noticeable effect.   I should be more observant.

I probably don't pay attention because I live in the desert and I'm quite used to seeing the contrast between turf and desert so it doesn't bother me, whereas someone like yourself who doesn't like the "ilk" that is desert golf, might look for these details to add to the reasoning that the desert is not proper ground for golf.  OK.  I suppose the same could be said for any golf course that is not located on a true links.




Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Southern Dunes GC Maricopa, AZ (Pics)
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2010, 01:26:36 PM »
Tom

I wish I could remember which course I saw pix of which really did a great job with the transitions.  It was probably a C&C, but I just can't remember.  That said, I remember that sand and a great variety of desert plants were used in the transition zones which ate into fairway space to break up viewing lines.  It was obvious that a lot of time was spent on transitions and it showed. 

I am put off by by poor transitions, but I also understand the limitations of desert golf - which imo is one reason why it is less than ideal terrain for golf.  However, if the price was right, I would certainly give the course (and other of the same ilk in the desert) a go, but I wouldn't pay a steady diet of $100 plus take the time to get to the desert.  With few exceptions I just don't see the architecture being compelling enough to overcome the shortcomings of the desert, but I am cognizant of my good fortune to have better choices available to me.

Ciao 

As a matter of fact, I played Talking Stick North a couple of weeks ago and the transitions between turf and desert went unnoticed by me.  Not that I look for these things, but maybe that is a good sign that the boundaries are incorporated in a way that doesn't produce a noticeable effect.   I should be more observant.

I probably don't pay attention because I live in the desert and I'm quite used to seeing the contrast between turf and desert so it doesn't bother me, whereas someone like yourself who doesn't like the "ilk" that is desert golf, might look for these details to add to the reasoning that the desert is not proper ground for golf.  OK.  I suppose the same could be said for any golf course that is not located on a true links.


As I mentioned in post #23 above, I think TSN has the best transitions of any desert course I've played.  I do like the look of Southern Dunes in these winter photos however!

One thing I see about Southern Dunes is there is none of that ring above the bunkers so prevalent in Phoenix.  I really noticed it most at the first We-ko-pa course.  I think it's done by overseedng just a band above the bunker.  Somebody must like that look, I  frankly found it pretty phony looking.

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Southern Dunes GC Maricopa, AZ (Pics)
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2010, 10:52:42 AM »
I played Southern Dunes for the first time yesterday and offer the following observations:

The course is well done. I like the routing, which is generally counterclockwise/clockwise. The course is very walkable and flows well and it was very playable despite a lack of overseeding on the fairways and a ton or recent rain.

There is some sameness to the look and play of a number of holes. For example, 9 and 18 seem almost the same except 18 has water grenside right. The par 5s had a lot of similarity too, and they were almost all the same distance (545 from the tees we played). A lot of it has to do with the fairway bunkering as there are routinely bunkers on the inside of the doglegs. Also this course, which purports to be a “Fred Couples” design (with Schmidt/Curley), is very much a Jack Nicklaus clone that favors a high fade on nearly every approach shot.   

I liked the greens, which have some excellent contouring. The bunkering, though a bit overdone at times, seems to fit well with the “dunes” concept.

In addition to the first, which is a solid opener, the holes I liked best lacked the sameness I mention above: the short par 4 2d, with a small perched green that is nicely contoured, the long par 3 6th, the par 4 10th with a  fun tee shot over water to a diagonal fairway, and the short par 4 14th, which has more sand than grass and presents a host of options.

As was mentioned above, it’s unfortunate that the areas immediately adjacent to the mowed areas often have impenetrable, ball eating fescue type grass or other similar overgrowth that equates to unplayable lies or lost balls. Yes one shouldn’t be there since there’s plenty of width but the wilder shot is rewarded with a play from desert dirt. At least they might mow some of that stuff down, but I understand the budgetary issues.

All in all a very pleasant course for a round. Not sure I’d rank it higher than Talking Stick North or the We Ko Pa courses but it was worth playing.
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Southern Dunes GC Maricopa, AZ (Pics)
« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2010, 12:58:58 PM »
I concur with Doug's comments above with one exception.  We played there yesterday (my brother and I and Forrest Richardson, who took the cash in our nine point game with a deft short game) and had a good time.  The course is playing tight and reasonably firm considering all the rain.

I was amazed to see the number of greenside bunkers that had to be hand raked.  Although the club has been in some financial distress, the green staff is doing a really job keeping up with what seems to be acres of bunkers.

I have to disagree with Doug about #9 and #18 being the same hole.  The distances and tee shots are very similar, but the green sites are completely different.  #9 is skinny front to back with a really cool "thumbprint" in the right center that gave me some grief putting around it to a back pin, where #18 is a left to right angled green with a steep bank and water all across the front.

My major negative about Southern Dunes' design echoes Doug's thoughts.......too many of the holes look alike, dogleg right with lots of bunkering on the right side.

#2 and #14 are both excellent short par 4s, although there really is TOO much going on at #14!

It's definitely worth the trip down to Maricopa to play.

Earlier in our trip we played Dove Mountain (the Ritz Carlton course) where the Accenture match play event will be held in a couple of weeks.  It was cart paths only and too long to walk (green-tee), and the wild greens are really over the top, so have to say I enjoyed the day at Southern Dunes more.  I was also attacked by a "jumping chollo" cactus at Dove Mountain, an interesting experience!

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Southern Dunes GC Maricopa, AZ (Pics)
« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2010, 03:44:06 PM »
I was also attacked by a "jumping chollo" cactus at Dove Mountain, an interesting experience!

I had one get me through old winged tipped golf shoes one time.  As I tried to pull it out it started jumping up my leg.  I was a bloody mess and it was the first hole at Desert Highlands with Packer's legend Max McGee.  I remember a lot more about the cactus than I do of Max.

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Southern Dunes GC Maricopa, AZ (Pics)
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2010, 10:57:25 AM »
Attention tourists...$200 per foursome @ SD during March prime season Monday to Thursday.
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back