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Jaeger Kovich

  • Karma: +0/-0
How Many Architects...
« on: September 29, 2009, 08:45:31 PM »
... actually still get in the dozer/excavator and shape bunkers?

I saw one of the leading architects listening to his ipod while moving dirt today, which I'm sure made our membership very happy to see that he was doing the work himself. I'm sure most of the the architects out there have run the machines in the past, but how many still do on current new OR remodel projects?

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Many Architects...
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2009, 09:12:48 PM »
... actually still get in the dozer/excavator and shape bunkers?

...I'm sure most of the the architects out there have run the machines in the past, but how many still do on current new OR remodel projects?

Probably just Nicklaus.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

TEPaul

Re: How Many Architects...
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2009, 09:51:06 PM »
Jaeger:

Today of the top architects Gil Hanse is probably the best on a dozer. It is not something he just does some of the time either and it's pretty much the way he came up into the business; he's truly an artist on those machines. He always has the headphones on too. I once asked him what he listens to and he told me but at the moment I can't remember.

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Many Architects...
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2009, 09:53:56 PM »
depends on how much shaping there is to do.
if an architect enjoys it and it is part of their design process and fee then they can go for it.
as a member I'd rather pay 1/2 the rate and get someone who shapes for a living with a good communicating architect.
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Many Architects...
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2009, 10:17:33 PM »
Jaeger:

Today of the top architects Gil Hanse is probably the best on a dozer. It is not something he just does some of the time either and it's pretty much the way he came up into the business; he's truly an artist on those machines. He always has the headphones on too. I once asked him what he listens to and he told me but at the moment I can't remember.

Didn't you tell us he was humming "Mary had a little lamb" or something while shaping 'Mont Paul' at the USGA's Himalayas putting green? ;D

Jaeger Kovich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Many Architects...
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2009, 10:24:59 PM »
TEP - It was Gil... I'll see if I can find out what he listens to by the end of the week!


I think I have heard/read Tom D say he doesn't do it anymore and figures he has guys who he feels can do a better job... I have seen Jim Uribina pushing sand at Bandon though!

Shouldn't all the Pete Dye disciples be pretty good at shaping (bunkers/greens/whatever)?

Anthony Gray

Re: How Many Architects...
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2009, 10:32:04 PM »


  Not to beat a dead horse, but the guys at Castle Stuart shaped that course in 60 days and they all were accomplished with the dozer.

  Anthony


Philippe Binette

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Many Architects...
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2009, 07:00:36 AM »
Whitman is always on the dozer but mostly shape greens and fairways... pretty sure he does bunkers too if needed but he has to let other do some stuff so:
Jeff Mingay uses excavator for bunkers and dozer for whatever else.
I uses ecavator for bunkers and can run the dozer (definitely not as great as Whitman)

It's a matter of time and quality, great bunkers emerge from an onsite attention to detail, and if you're good enough to put your ideas into reality with a piece of equipment, you might as well do it yourself.

David Whitmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Many Architects...
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2009, 08:24:25 AM »
I worked at a PB Dye-designed course, starting my employment long before the course opened. He was on the dozer all the time when he was there...I think he thought he could do it better than other guys, and quite frankly I think he enjoyed being on it.

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Many Architects...
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2009, 09:36:43 AM »
Here's a pic of an architects dozer work. The story goes (edit; Confirmed as mostly hype. Will leave for prosperity) his crew was unable, or unwilling, to knock down the ridge on the left side. In the picture you can tell how the ridge line ran to what in this picture looks like a gun sight from the front dune to that back little pimple. There's probably fifty yards between the two, though the picture does not illustrate that. It was enough sand to create the entire front you see sand capped.

« Last Edit: September 30, 2009, 10:10:02 AM by Adam Clayman »
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

TEPaul

Re: How Many Architects...
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2009, 10:11:13 AM »
"Didn't you tell us he was humming "Mary had a little lamb" or something while shaping 'Mont Paul' at the USGA's Himalayas putting green?  ;D"



I probably did Eric. I tell yuz guys a "Lotta Things" on here; haven't you noticed?   ;)

TEPaul

Re: How Many Architects...
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2009, 10:27:25 AM »
It is apparently very hard to accurately determine what is in a golf architect's mind when he is creating something----eg on a dozer, in the dirt, whatever.

At GMGC, Gil Hanse and I came up with a concept for a new green on the 7th hole. The concept was very well and very comprehensively thought through and comprehensively disgusted. We felt we had most all the details worked out for what we felt the challenges and solutions would and should be (the overall "concept") for every level of golfer on this hole primarily due to this green design.

We decided that given the fact it was a short "go/no go" par 5 that the green should be essentially divided into two primary sections by what we conidered to be some good representative Maxwell mound contours on the green (those things Bill Coore labeled "poofs").

Gil even got off his machine and went around the course analyzing some of our Maxwell mound countours on a few of the other holes apparently to get some replication ideas.

Then he came back and created two side by side mounds in the middle of the green with a noticeable swale between them. This created a situation that if a golfer's ball was on the wrong side of the green from the pin these side by side mounds and swale would create a very difficult putt to the pin. This was our primary concept with this green because the hole is a short par 5----eg we wanted good players going at it in two to get their ball into the right section for a potential eagle or biridie and we wanted less talented golfers approaching in three to do the same.

It opened in the spring to some truly entrenched controversy. A few really loved it and it seems perhaps a majority didn't like it or downright hated it.

Those mounds and swale became known as "The Boobs and the Cleavage" and after a couple of years Gil actually performed a slight mastectomy on the left boob to make putting from one side to the other a bit more manageable.

This is the nature of golf course architecture when one has a highly creative mind, don't you think? ;)

Tyler Kearns

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Many Architects...
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2009, 05:28:07 PM »
Mike DeVries.

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