Return to Lakota Canyon Ranch ... The final three holes ...

[Matt_Ward]

I just completed my annual pilgrimage to the mountain time zone and have to say it's always a pleasure to combine dropdead gorgeous scenery with exciting golf.

One of my favorite layouts in the region is the Jim Engh design -- Lakota Canyon Ranch in New Castle, CO.

The course has been spoken about many times here.

I just wanted to highlight the final three holes because often they are not featured separately.

I thoroughly enjoyed the combination of a par-4, par-3 and par-5 closing.

The 16th is a dog-leg right par-4 of 418 yards and given the altitude is not really long. But what makes the hole is that the player must decide just how much to cut-off with the tee shot. The closer you stay right the easier the approach. The further left you go as a bailout from the tee -- the more demanding the approach becomes as you need to them flirt with a long and deep bunkers that protects much of the left side of the green. When the pin is placed flush left all the way back it takes a first rate approach to come within 20-30 feet. Jim Engh usually makes his mark on exciting par-5 type holes - the par-4 16th at LCR is one of his best holes from the portfolio of courses of his that I have played.

The 17th is a replica-type hole Engh has done at other courses but here at LCR it fits the land much better. You tee high above the green and the dropshot exposes to the player all that you need to do. From the tips it plays 198 yards and the green is really like a figure 8 design -- with the frontal portion of the hole being much fatter and then narrowing down to the rear area which is protected by high mounds on both sides. If the pin is all the way back the mounds may bounce the ball towards the target but there is no guarantee that will happen.

The closing hole is a compelling strategic par-5 ender -- 557 yards from the tips and has been spoken about here a number of times. I think it's one of Engh's finest holes I have played -- the hole slides gently downhill from an elevated tee box and moves just as gently to the right. The more you can take on the right side the more favorable angle you get for your second shot. After a solid and well-placed tee shot the player has to decide if going for the green in two blows is doable. There is a bailout area to the far right and often that will be where the player decides to go.

The carry for the 2nd shot is a real visual terror scene. The very top of the pin is exposed to those back in the fairway and the slightest push to the right with one's second to the green will mean Elvis land -- as in deadsville. Should you pull the shot to the left the terrain on that side is quite steep and not all balls will release back down towards the green. The green is also quite narrow and deep when approached for a 2nd shot.

If you bail out right the short wedge shot is equally fraught with visual terror / demands. Too many times architects allow the bailout option to have an always e-z way out. That doesn't happen with Lakota's closer because the pitch must be totally precise and hit with total confidence.

Much has been written about Redlands Mesa -- another Engh layout in nearby Grand Junction -- and I find it hard to believe that any magazine would have the former rated ahead of the course in New Castle. The final three holes at Lakota Canyon Ranch prove to me what a winning combination Colorado golf can provide when it links dramatic scenery and high level decision-making.

[JESII]

Matt,

Re: #18, from the tee are you deciding whether or not to fit the ball into the right corner of the fairway? Or is that the automatic target for you?  Is it realistic to go for the green if you're a little short and a little left of ideal off the tee?

[Matt_Ward]

Jim:

Yes, the player has to decide if cutting the corner on the right is the play. It's a bold and risky move because if you push too far right the end result is deadsville. There's plenty of room to the left but the more you go that direction the more demanding the 2nd shot for the green (assuming adequate length off the tee is achieved) becomes.

Going for the green can be accomplished from the left but the key is getting into the most favorable position down the right side. To Engh's credit he does provide two bailout areas -- you can cross over to the far right side and have a short pitch from there or if you get hung up in the rough on the left you may need to bailout short of the main fairway and hit a longer 3rd from that position.

What makes the final hole at Lakota so compelling to me is the array of options and scorecard numbers that are in play. This doesn't also highlight the naturalness of the hole itself set below the clubhouse with the mountains in the nearby distance.

[DMoriarty]

Jim,

I haven't played the course, but from the photo I am having trouble understanding what the choice is off the tee, other than to hit it long and in the fairway.   Seems the result would be "deadsville" on any other "choice."  Here is a photograph from their website, similar or the same to what Matt has posted in the past. 




Matt,  Do you get paid or have you ever been paid to pump up this course or any Engh course?  The reason I ask is that this seems very similar to the exact same thread you have posted in the past about the same holes. 

[Matt_Ward]

David:

The pic you posted does not show the different options available from an actual playing perspective. Players can hit the ball short off the tee (using the 499 yards white tees) and be left with the same array of choices as those who opt for the back tee area.

Of course, you won't know that but you can then throw some inane drivel when you state I am some sort of paid flak for Jim Engh. I don't receive one cent from Engh or his facilities for my comments. What BS is that? Hello David -- but there are quality designs out there that fall outside the "preferred" choices of a number of people here. Clearly you trashed Black Rock for not being your cup of tea. Nothing like an open mind -- huh?

I played the course originally and often times when I return to a course it gives me a perspective of time to see what I thought originally was accurate or needs to be changed. I see Lakota Canyon as a first rate public course not only for Colorado but for the nation.

[Kalen Braley]

Here are a few other pics of LC #18 --- No charge!!   (Yup its a dogmeat hole indeed!)   

From the tee:




From the right hand "layup" fairway:

[JESII]

Kalen and Matt,

Would a good player (low single digits or better) ever think the best way to make a four was to do anything other than hit it hard down the right side off the tee?

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen and Matt,

Would a good player (low single digits or better) ever think the best way to make a four was to do anything other than hit it hard down the right side off the tee?

Jim,

Which right side?  The right side of the 1st fairway area or right side of the 2nd one.

P.S.  I'll give you a clue, the 2nd fairway would take Bubba Watson to hit it!! 

[Matt_Ward]

Jim:

Playing down the right side is a risky proposition and even if one should do it doesn't ensure a guaranteed four as the 2nd to the green is a tremendously intimidating shot from eye-level when standing there -- the pic posted by David M doesn't remotely convey that feeling. One can just as well play a fairway metal off the tee to ensure a good placement in the fairway and then play to the far right side for a 90-100 yard wedge shot. No doubt those who have that kind of wedge skill will opt for that type of play.

Be curious to know -- have you ever played the hole and what options did you follow ?

[JESII]

Matt,

I haven't played it but was curious about your and Kalen's effusive praise of the many and varied strategic options throughout #18.

To be clear, I think a hole can be great while also having fairly limited strategic options...in fact for each player I can't imagine too many holes offer more than a couple realistic options if the goal is to make a decent score.

It sounds like this hole has two options for a player of your caliber Matt, aggressive driver down the right in hopes of then hitting a second shot onto the green...OR...a three wood off the tee conservatively and somethings into the layup area and then a wedge onto the green...with the intention being you will make a four 1 out of 4 times and a 5 the rest...where as the Driver off the tee might yield more birdies and also more bogeys...Correct?

Is there any reason a good player would think there best way to make a four was anything other than a driver down the right side of the left fairway off the tee?

[Norbert P]

(I have never been to Lakota Canyon)

It's definitely a bold finisher with an out-of-the-box fairway design. It would have given another option to turf the approach down the left and perhaps trouble it up with some hazards, but I suppose the cartpath issue must have crept into the equation to nix that. As a walker I'd like to be able to skip the bridge and roundabout path to the green by taking that left side.  Also, the setting looks grandly rugged, perhaps the bunker style could match that a bit more. I saw the same style of plunging capes at Red Mesa, nice, but I would opt for a more shredded style here.

[Matt_Ward]

Jim:

The hole plays a good bit differently from the 499-yard markers than the ones at 557 yards. Therefore the strategic calculations will change to that degree.

The 18th at LCR does have various options and each is set in motion by what you decide to do at the tee.

In answer to your question -- the driver down the right side is not be considered unless you are equally adept at marrying power and placement. Those who can do that will then face no less a demanding play with the 2nd -- albeit a shorter shot but no less intimidating. In my last visit at LCR I reached the 165 yard plate but the 9-iron 2nd was far from automatic as the pin as all the way in the small neck in the front section. The photo from above the hole doesn't show that feature whatsoever -- being there is the only way to thoroughly understand what the hole offers from that dimension.

The conservative play will likely mean a more comfortable shot for most levels of players but again it's still intimidating to hit it across the canyon to the narrow green which slopes back-to-front to the player. In many ways the 18th at LCR provides a combination of strategic choices which can set in motion heroic results or penal penalties. I see it as one of the more fun and interesting par-5's created by Engh.

Slag:

The left side option is not viable because of the grade involved and the usage of the higher ground on that side for potential housing and the like.

One other thing -- walkers can follow a direct line from the main fairway to the green itself -- there isn't a pathway per se but it's certainly doable for those who don't want to walk all the way around.

[Garland Bayley]

Matt,

You have indicated in the past that you always get yardage books for courses you play when available. Was there one for this course? Do you have it? Can you scan in the hole and post it? If not, do you have an AA that can scan it, and send Kalen the jpg?

[JESII]

In my last visit at LCR I reached the 165 yard plate but the 9-iron 2nd was far from automatic as the pin as all the way in the small neck in the front section.

Matt,

Your ability to convince me the holw is wrought with strategic options fell off the table with the above comment...especially if you tell me it was from the 557 tee...

I believe it is a fun and interesting par 5 and would even believe it is a great par 5...but if you're not on the tee deciding between options that if executed properly would result in the same score, I don't see it as strategery.

With the pin in the front little neck you discussed, is there a distinct advantage to hitting a 100 yard shot in that would potentially overcome the opportunity to hit the green in 2 (even if from 225 as opposed to your 165)?

[Kalen Braley]

One can indeed walk up the left hand side as witnessed by our very own Andy T in the second pic I posted. 

With golf bag in tow he went for the green in 2 and walked up the left hand side while I layed up to the 2nd fairway on the right hand side for a short wedge approach 3rd.

My last thought would be, if you haven't played this hole, you're really missing out on whats possible for the golfer or not.  From that 557 tee I would defy anyone not named Tiger, Bubba, or John Daly to go for that right hand fairway, it really is that much of a carry and a narrow landing area to boot. From the up tee, yes its reachable.

[Garland Bayley]

Kalen,

From the pictures, I don't even know why anyone would be discussing driving to the right fairway. Bubba wouldn't go there! He would send it to the end of the left fairway, and wedge on. From the pictures, it is obvious you don't want a long shot coming from the right fairway.

[JESII]

Kalen,

Left fairway...the right side of the left fairway!


I love reading about a hole that's so good and offers so many options as to be literally indescribeable...you just gotta see it to believe it.

I look forward to a chance someday.

[Jason McNamara]

What is the length of the carry from the end of the main fairway to the green complex?

[Garland Bayley]

...
It's definitely a bold finisher with an out-of-the-box fairway design. ...

I guess that makes Harbottle at Palouse Ridge an out of the box thinker, and Pete Dye at Bulle Rock an out of the box thinker.

[Kalen Braley]

That right fairway could possibly be reached by someone with prodigous length...but yes it would be a very gutsy play.

As for the Left fairway, there is an advantage to driving the ball to the right hand side because the lie is much flatter.  Or one can choose to not challenge the hazard and play safer up the left hand side but then have a more difficult stance/lie for thier next shot.

As I recall, the fairway runs out at about 190-200 yards from the green.  At elevation this is very reachable, even for many on GCA.com.  So going for the green in two is indeed very tempting and doable. Andy T tried it from 220ish IIRC,  and just barely came up short of a perfect shot.

[Norbert P]

...
It's definitely a bold finisher with an out-of-the-box fairway design. ...

I guess that makes Harbottle at Palouse Ridge an out of the box thinker, and Pete Dye at Bulle Rock an out of the box thinker.

  Garland, please forgive the poor diction.  It should read outside-of-the-box fairway design.  I did not mean that it was a Betty Crocker ready-made box of cake mix.  Surely, Jim had many decisions to make on a hole with the chasm to navigate around.  I don't fully agree with the bunker style or their placements but I haven't been there so I'm not worthy of having this read anyway.

And Matt, that left approach area looks pretty flat to me; couldn't be too hard to kill, gill, till and plant.  One more option for the golfer just laying there.

[Jason McNamara]

As I recall, the fairway runs out at about 190-200 yards from the green.  At elevation this is very reachable, even for many on GCA.com.  So going for the green in two is indeed very tempting and doable. Andy T tried it from 220ish IIRC,  and just barely came up short of a perfect shot.

Thanks, Kalen.  I was wondering what kind of 3d one would face if he stuck to the straight route.  And of course the axis of the green is aligned for that longer shot.

One other note:  I am guessing that nasty little pit behind the green gets your attention if coming in from the main fairway, but is much more in your face if hitting a wedge from the right fairway.

[Chris Moore]

I'll chime in.  I thought 17 was ghastly with its jutting thumb at the back section of the green.  I also thought there were no options on 18 other than to hit a drive, lay up, then try to squeeze a wedge into a vary shallow area (pin was front left when I was there).  Overall, a disappointing experience for quite a high price tag.  If this is some of the best of the west, I'd be truly surprised.  

[Garland Bayley]

Slag,

I understood your meaning. However, I listed two close anagrams to this hole to suggest that either
1) Engh was not thinking that far outside of the box, or
b) Engh has company in thinking outside of the box.

[Norbert P]

Slag,

I understood your meaning. However, I listed two close anagrams to this hole to suggest that either
1) Engh was not thinking that far outside of the box, or
b) Engh has company in thinking outside of the box.

  Two close anagrams !?!  Hardly. Unless I'm totally missing something or you are impersonating Norm Crosby.
      I read only alliteration of the second words - Ranch, Rock, Ridge.

Anagram ---->                William Shakespeare = I am a weakish speller


  (Put in yer own emoto robo gizmo.)