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Tom MacWood

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Chicago's anonymous architects
« on: August 31, 2009, 09:49:33 AM »
Other than William Langford it seems to me Chicago's historic architects get very little notice, or in the case of Bendelow are not held in very high esteem. Some of the names that come to mind are Tweedie, O'Neil, Bendelow, Collis, Croke, and Harris, but there are others.

What are the reasons for their anonymity? Which of these architects are underappreciated and should be better known?

Chris_Blakely

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Re: Chicago's anonymous architects
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2009, 10:25:59 AM »
Tom,

I have always wanted to know more about Frank Macdonald and Charles Maddox.  I know that they designed an abandoned course on the Indiana shores of Lake Michigan called Beverly Shores as well as several courses in Chicago.  I also know they did a nine holer in the northern lakes region of Wisconsin that looks to be good.  The old Beverly shores course is now an Indiana State park.

Chris


PCCraig

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Re: Chicago's anonymous architects
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2009, 12:33:32 PM »
Joseph Roseman is another that gets little credit for anything but has done a few low key layouts on the north shore. I also think he invented a more modern green cutting machine  ???
H.P.S.

Tom MacWood

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Re: Chicago's anonymous architects
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2009, 01:21:46 PM »
I think Roseman was greenskeeper who delved into golf architecture, I think cutting grass was his forte. But that is what I'm wondering, are these gentlemen (or a number of them) unheralded because they were mediocre architects or some other reason?

Jack Daray is another architect whose name comes up quite a bit during Chicago's hayday.

Here are a couple of views of Macdonald & Maddox's Beverly Shores near Michigan City, Indiana (the same hole). They had a very flashy bunkering style - reminiscent of Billy Bell or Tom Simpson.

Dan Moore

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Re: Chicago's anonymous architects
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2009, 01:27:46 PM »
I think the main reason for anonymity is the fact they were local architects who didn't have a national reach.  Even Langford suffers in that regard.  Bendelow gets more attention because he did more on a national level and has a major tournament venue (Medinah)  on his resume.  The relatively flat parkland nature of Chicago's terrain play's a role.  The fact their Chicago courses were not as good as those of Ross, Alison and Park Jr is also significant.  

Of those deserving wider attention its clearly Tweedie in my opinion followed by O'Neil.  I'd like to know more about O'Neils course in Barrington, its never talked about here.  Glencoe his muni isn't much to write home about.    The other is CD Wagstaff who was responsible for Tam O' Shanter home of George May's tournaments in the 1950's and Twin Orchard.  Stuart Gardiner and Frank Adams also had the new version of Westward Ho that is nle and looks rather inetresting. 
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Tom MacWood

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Re: Chicago's anonymous architects
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2009, 01:48:22 PM »
Here is an aerial of Exmoor from a 1929 magazine. Does anyone know who was is responsible for the quirky bunkers in the foreground? I know Ross and Colt did work at Exmoor, but I don't believe those are their bunkers.

Dan
Did you post those old aerials of Chicago courses about a year ago? Whoever did I recall noticing several courses had those quirky distinctive bunkers.

I'm most interested in O'Neil and Collis. Daray is another one who looks interesting.


RSLivingston_III

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Re: Chicago's anonymous architects
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2009, 01:58:31 PM »
Another one I have wanted to find info on is E. C. Simmonds. He was hired to do Kent CC in Grand Rapids (1899). I did find a reference to a Simmonds Landscaping that was hired to do work at Chicago GC pre-1900. I assume they are one in the same but wonder if anyone has more info.
"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

RSLivingston_III

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Re: Chicago's anonymous architects
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2009, 02:05:02 PM »
Daray was at the Highlands CC in Grand Rapids MI before being hired away by Olympia Fields at Willie Parks recommendation 1922-23.
He did a number of courses in MI and along the Gulf coast (during the winter). I have a fair amount of documents from the time he was at the Highlands. I think I remember he was a founding member of the ASGCA.
"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

Chris_Blakely

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Re: Chicago's anonymous architects
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2009, 02:11:17 PM »
Daray was at the Highlands CC in Grand Rapids MI before being hired away by Olympia Fields at Willie Parks recommendation 1922-23.
He did a number of courses in MI and along the Gulf coast (during the winter). I have a fair amount of documents from the time he was at the Highlands. I think I remember he was a founding member of the ASGCA.

Jack Daray did nine hole courses at Big Rapids CC (now Meceola Country Club) and Hastings Country Club.  Both of these coures original 9 holes are very quirky, had interesting/unique green sites and a ton of fun to play.


RSLivingston_III

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Re: Chicago's anonymous architects
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2009, 02:27:42 PM »
Daray was at the Highlands CC in Grand Rapids MI before being hired away by Olympia Fields at Willie Parks recommendation 1922-23.
He did a number of courses in MI and along the Gulf coast (during the winter). I have a fair amount of documents from the time he was at the Highlands. I think I remember he was a founding member of the ASGCA.

Jack Daray did nine hole courses at Big Rapids CC (now Meceola Country Club) and Hastings Country Club.  Both of these coures original 9 holes are very quirky, had interesting/unique green sites and a ton of fun to play.



Hastings is a blast. What's really interesting is that originally there was a par 3 with the tee on the roof of the clubhouse playing down to the green. I believe the 18th is an original hole, a par 3, hard uphill and moderately long.
Haven't had the chance to get to Big Rapids and not sure what is left of his work there to see.
"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

Chris_Blakely

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Re: Chicago's anonymous architects
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2009, 03:02:56 PM »
Daray was at the Highlands CC in Grand Rapids MI before being hired away by Olympia Fields at Willie Parks recommendation 1922-23.
He did a number of courses in MI and along the Gulf coast (during the winter). I have a fair amount of documents from the time he was at the Highlands. I think I remember he was a founding member of the ASGCA.

Jack Daray did nine hole courses at Big Rapids CC (now Meceola Country Club) and Hastings Country Club.  Both of these coures original 9 holes are very quirky, had interesting/unique green sites and a ton of fun to play.



Hastings is a blast. What's really interesting is that originally there was a par 3 with the tee on the roof of the clubhouse playing down to the green. I believe the 18th is an original hole, a par 3, hard uphill and moderately long.
Haven't had the chance to get to Big Rapids and not sure what is left of his work there to see.

Agreed, Hastings was a blast to play, I lived several of the Mathews Sr hole as well.  I assume the tee on the roof of the clubhouse was for the practice hole that looked to be an older green (suspect original) when I was there.  I played the hole from some tee boxes they had next to clubhouse.  Yes, 18 I believe is original, I believe the others are 3 through 5 and 8 -10.

As for Meceoala, I think there is still a lot there and it is quite easy to see what is old vs new (IMO).  Everything on the west side of the road is original.  They have abandoned one par 3, but still maintain the green (hole falls after 8th green).  Thus, 9 original holes only 8 still used on west side of road.  On the opposite side of the road, Jeff Gorney added 10 new holes.  The original 9 holes are quirky and a ton of fun to play.

Chris

David Stamm

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Re: Chicago's anonymous architects
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2009, 03:22:19 PM »
Daray came out to California for health reasons and did quite a few courses here, such as Coronado, Admiral Baker and Castle Creek (known then as Circle R Ranch). I haven't played Admiral Baker, but the other two are enjoyable.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

RSLivingston_III

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Re: Chicago's anonymous architects
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2009, 03:35:47 PM »
Daray came out to California for health reasons and did quite a few courses here, such as Coronado, Admiral Baker and Castle Creek (known then as Circle R Ranch). I haven't played Admiral Baker, but the other two are enjoyable.

I talked with his son, Jack Jr. before he passed away, and he said they left Chicago by train for CA and somewhere on the trip all of Jack Sr. drawings, plans and such came up missing. Jack Jr. was said he was involved in working on many of those Cali courses, carrying on dad's business. He told me many things which I was never able to get documentation from him on. He told me dad worked as a Forman for Ross on Pinehurst #4 (NLE). One of the courses he did on the Gulf coast had an island green, possibly the first? I did see an old hand colored postcard of it.
"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

Chris_Blakely

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Re: Chicago's anonymous architects
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2009, 03:47:05 PM »
Daray came out to California for health reasons and did quite a few courses here, such as Coronado, Admiral Baker and Castle Creek (known then as Circle R Ranch). I haven't played Admiral Baker, but the other two are enjoyable.

I talked with his son, Jack Jr. before he passed away, and he said they left Chicago by train for CA and somewhere on the trip all of Jack Sr. drawings, plans and such came up missing. Jack Jr. was said he was involved in working on many of those Cali courses, carrying on dad's business. He told me many things which I was never able to get documentation from him on. He told me dad worked as a Forman for Ross on Pinehurst #4 (NLE). One of the courses he did on the Gulf coast had an island green, possibly the first? I did see an old hand colored postcard of it.

Ralph,

Did you find any other Daray courses that he did in Michigan beyond what is listed in C&W?

Chris

RSLivingston_III

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Re: Chicago's anonymous architects
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2009, 04:19:22 PM »
I have a folder somewhere for Daray/Highlands that has a list of courses from Jack Jr., one of the few things I got from him. Not sure where it is at right now. That has been a dead project to me for a while. Got a book on a club maker to finish first.
His last course in MI was most likely Cascade CC as that is the one Park visited before refering him to Olympia Fields.
The others I vaguely remember were more rumor.
"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

Dan Moore

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Re: Chicago's anonymous architects
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2009, 07:39:17 PM »
Another one I have wanted to find info on is E. C. Simmonds. He was hired to do Kent CC in Grand Rapids (1899). I did find a reference to a Simmonds Landscaping that was hired to do work at Chicago GC pre-1900. I assume they are one in the same but wonder if anyone has more info.

Ralph,  Ossian Cole Simonds was a landscape designer of some repute in the Chicago area.  I have seen many plot drawings he has done of Chicago area clubs.  The drawing of the old course at Chicago Golf in Bahto's book was done by Simonds.  He was the landscape architect for the Glen View Club.  I have not seen any indication that he ever was involved in the design of a golf course however.  He may be best known for his design of Graceland Cemetery in Chicago known as the cemetery of architects.  Thius is the cemetery on Clark Street just North of Wrigley Field. 
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Tom MacWood

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Re: Chicago's anonymous architects
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2009, 10:47:37 PM »
The first picture is an arial of Lake Shore after George O'Neil redesigned the course. The second photo is Flossmoor redesigned by Harry Collis. Both pictures are from 1924. I did some checking and I'm pretty sure those irregular bunkers at Exmoor are the work of Jack Croke. Croke was the pro at Exmoor in 1915 when he added new bunkers to give the course a "seaside aspect." Croke also built a number of O'Neil's designs.

David Stamm

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Re: Chicago's anonymous architects
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2009, 11:14:35 PM »
Croke and O'Neil did some work in So Cal, one of which was the original Pasadena Golf Club.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Paul Richards

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Re: Chicago's anonymous architects
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2009, 11:35:51 PM »
George O'Neil was the architect of Beverly's original golf course and was the head pro for nearly a decade.

He was lauded and loved and adored there.

There is a reference to a song the members wrote for him as he departed.

He was also one of the most respected teachers of his age, with none other than Harry Vardons saying that he was the best teacher.


"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

RSLivingston_III

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Re: Chicago's anonymous architects
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2009, 12:34:52 AM »
Another one I have wanted to find info on is E. C. Simmonds. He was hired to do Kent CC in Grand Rapids (1899). I did find a reference to a Simmonds Landscaping that was hired to do work at Chicago GC pre-1900. I assume they are one in the same but wonder if anyone has more info.

Ralph,  Ossian Cole Simonds was a landscape designer of some repute in the Chicago area.  I have seen many plot drawings he has done of Chicago area clubs.  The drawing of the old course at Chicago Golf in Bahto's book was done by Simonds.  He was the landscape architect for the Glen View Club.  I have not seen any indication that he ever was involved in the design of a golf course however.  He may be best known for his design of Graceland Cemetery in Chicago known as the cemetery of architects.  Thius is the cemetery on Clark Street just North of Wrigley Field.  

And this is why I love this site.
Dan, thanks for the info. I can now google search and find the man. They have even reprinted a book of his, golf is covered near the end. The E C Simmonds came from a newspaper article from the time of the construction of the new course. Needless to say the writer knew NOTHING of the game and had many errors including the typo on the name. One of the Foulis brothers did the original 9-holer by the lake and I suspect Foulis also did the design of the new course and Simonds came in to do the landscaping. I doubt anyone at Kent will be interested in this but I will maintain the info for when they want to correct there club history.
The article about Simonds landscaping working at Chicago GC was in a turn of the century periodical. I believe it might have been The Golfer. I didn't save it.
"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

Rich Goodale

Re: Chicago's anonymous architects
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2009, 03:58:29 AM »
I think the main reason for anonymity is the fact they were local architects who didn't have a national reach.  Even Langford suffers in that regard.  Bendelow gets more attention because he did more on a national level and has a major tournament venue (Medinah)  on his resume.  The relatively flat parkland nature of Chicago's terrain play's a role.  The fact their Chicago courses were not as good as those of Ross, Alison and Park Jr is also significant.  

Of those deserving wider attention its clearly Tweedie in my opinion followed by O'Neil.  I'd like to know more about O'Neils course in Barrington, its never talked about here.  Glencoe his muni isn't much to write home about.    The other is CD Wagstaff who was responsible for Tam O' Shanter home of George May's tournaments in the 1950's and Twin Orchard.  Stuart Gardiner and Frank Adams also had the new version of Westward Ho that is nle and looks rather inetresting. 

Dan

When I researched an article a few years ago about Archie Simpson (GCA work at Murcar, Royal Aberdeen, Dornoch, Nairn, Cruden Bay, etc.) I found a reference that he was the resident pro at Tam O'Shanter (Tommy Armour was the "Touring Pro") at about the time that course was first opened (~1925).  Do you know of any references to Archie's presence there and whether or not he assisted Wagstaff in his work, or vice versa?

Thanks in advance.

Rich

Tom MacWood

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Re: Chicago's anonymous architects
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2009, 06:47:52 AM »
Speaking of O'Neil and Pasadena here is an interesting article from (circa) 1920, which mentions AD Lasker and Aleck Bauer among others. This article was found by Rick Holland.

Paul Stephenson

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Re: Chicago's anonymous architects
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2009, 10:46:55 AM »
Chick Evans?

I'm not sure how many courses he designed, but Cutten Club in Guelph Ontario is a pretty good course.

Rich Goodale

Re: Chicago's anonymous architects
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2009, 10:50:07 AM »
As Leo Diegel was a pupil of Archie Simpson (as was Stewart Maiden) is seems that the California School of Golf as well as the Augusta one can be traced back to oor Archie.

Chris_Clouser

Re: Chicago's anonymous architects
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2009, 11:18:15 AM »
Chris Blakely,

Beverly Shores is actually on the grounds of the national campgrounds.  I recently talked with the gentleman that runs the historical society for the town it technically is in.  He sent me some documentation about the course.  He seemed much more impressed with the clubhouse than the course.  Shoot me a PM if you want more information and I'll see what I can give you.  I believe there was a routing of the course in what he sent me.

I'm not sure if they still have it, but one of the national park workers does a guided tour of some of the holes of the course in one of the evening activities in the national park.  That was how I first heard of the course.

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