[Rich Goodale]

Bob

That's East Carmel Valley/West Salinas to me.

Rich

[Ed Oden]

Linville Ridge has a 600 ft drop from #5 tee to #16 tee.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Ritz-Carlton/Dove Mountain boasts 700' of elevation changes on their golf courses.

[Jeff Evagues]

The 17th hole of a course on Lanai has a huge drop, the biggest I ever experienced. If I remember correctly, it is called the Challenge at Manele.

Right island, wrong course. The course you are thinking of is Koele. Manele is the course down on the coast.

[Scott Macpherson]

Scott,

Your new course is halfway to Hexham, the locals wouldn't like you calling Close House Newcastle.  That's a lot of elevation change.  Presumably you're going up the hill away from the valley floor?  How is construction going?  Is it possible to view what's been done so far and does it reveal much of how it will eventually play?

Mark

Hi Mark,

I think the official address is Heddon-on-the-wall.

As a short summery, the course plays up hill, then back down. Holes 2,5 and 10 being the uphill holes and everything pretty much downhill from the 11th (so no cardiac hill on the last couple of holes!!!!) It's a tricky site. Michael Clayton kindly popped in for a visit last Thursday and I enjoyed his company. Construction is going well, but how much gets finished will depend on your Northumbrian weather this Autumn. If you wanted to come and visit, I would be happy to meet you there one one. At the moment you do get a very good feel for how the course will finish looking as we are seeding some of the course now.

scott

[Scott Macpherson]

Tom,

It is interesting because some courses (which are/were designed to be walked – not not driven in Carts) like Augusta National or maybe Pine Valley may in the course of 18 holes may make you walk a greater elevation difference than anther course which asks you to go up a steeper hill just once. So the ultimate comparison is total elevation change during a round, not just the difference between the high point and the low point.

If this became accepted, courses where golf carts are compulsory , say due to excessive distance from greens to tees, could also be compared to the walking courses by just measuring the elevation change from tee to green over the 18 holes.

What is the elevation change at Pine Valley? (High green - lowest green)

Does Bel Air have quite a big difference too?

scott

[Kevin Pallier]

I can think of a couple in Australia - Tura Beach / Narooma and Mollymook all on the South Coast of NSW have some significant elevation changes.

How say Gullane and North Berwick (Glen) in GB&I ?

[Mike_Clayton]

Kevin,

Coincidentally, Scott and I played Gullane last night and, having seen Close House the day before, Gullane is not even close.

[Scott Macpherson]

I will second the Raven at Three Peaks as the winner, but Kapalua Plantation or the old Village would be in the mix. Also Wente Bros. and Lake Chabot in the Cali Bay Area come to mind. Arrow Creek Palmer course in Reno is also a big change in elevation thoughout the round.

Tim,

I email the pro at Arrow Creek, and he said;

"I believe it is 600 feet.  It is quite significant.  1-4 is pretty much up hill, 5-8 are on the same elevation, 9 significantly down hill, 10 flat, 11 down hill, 12 flat and then 13, 14, 15, all significantly down hill.  16-18 all back up.  Our carts are constantly dying. 4 green is the highest point and 15 is the lowest."

I wonder if it was designed as a cart course and not to be walked?

scott

[Adam Clayman]

Coincidentally, Scott and I played Gullane last night and, having seen Close House the day before, Gullane is not even close.

Whether intended or not. Thanks for the grin.

[mike_beene]

Southern Hills feels like the first hole drops more than Belair. The one you guys should google is the over the top Mountain Air in the NC mountains.Ten is a 230 yard par 3 that plays 150 and alone falls over 100 feet as do the next two holes.It does have the highest airport in the east.

[Doug Ralston]

#13 at Eagle Ridge [KY] is a 325yd par-4 where your tee shot drops 240ft to a fairway in the valley below. It is actually a great 1/2 par hole, where anyone who hits a normal drive 250yds of more can reach the green, but I would wager that those who play to the fairway and pitch average a lower score. One of the most exciting holes anywhere, proven by watching: I have never seen anyone hit just one shot from that tee. Even if you like your 1st one, you must try another just to watch it fly. I am certain when playing some tourney/match play they don't, but otherwise, enjoy!

Doug

[David Botimer]

I believe David Mclay Kidd's new course TPC San Francisco Bay at Stonebrae has 300 ft. elevation change.  The club house sits on the top of the hill overlooking the SF bay, so both nines are a down and up returning to clubhouse, while the front nine hits the low spot by the 4th green.  I caddied it in the Nationwide Tour's Wednesday pro-am and it was quite a hike.  Definitely makes Bandon Trails look like a walk in the park!

[Bob_Huntley]

Bob

That's East Carmel Valley/West Salinas to me.

Rich

Thank goodness I don't have you as my scout on recce patrols.

Bob

[Ian Andrew]

, Greywolf(?) near Radium H.S.

It's suprisingly small - I think around 180' from memory.

[Mark Pearce]

Scott,

Your new course is halfway to Hexham, the locals wouldn't like you calling Close House Newcastle.  That's a lot of elevation change.  Presumably you're going up the hill away from the valley floor?  How is construction going?  Is it possible to view what's been done so far and does it reveal much of how it will eventually play?

Mark

Hi Mark,

I think the official address is Heddon-on-the-wall.

As a short summery, the course plays up hill, then back down. Holes 2,5 and 10 being the uphill holes and everything pretty much downhill from the 11th (so no cardiac hill on the last couple of holes!!!!) It's a tricky site. Michael Clayton kindly popped in for a visit last Thursday and I enjoyed his company. Construction is going well, but how much gets finished will depend on your Northumbrian weather this Autumn. If you wanted to come and visit, I would be happy to meet you there one one. At the moment you do get a very good feel for how the course will finish looking as we are seeding some of the course now.

scott

Scott,

A tour would be great, I'll pm you.  Interesting to see pictures on the Close House website but I can't find the materplan which used to be there (the enlargeable one).

Mark

[Neal_Meagher]

Rich Goodale,

Sorry for the delay in replying but I just got around to reading this thread. 

Regarding the elevation change at Pasadera in Monterey, as near as I can figure from the info at hand, the 10th green is roughly at 370' while the 14th tee is roughly at 730', which means that the elevation change is about 360'.  I can say, it was one tough walk.............

[Matt_Ward]

Interesting point to highlight classic courses with major elevation change -- need to mention Montclair GC in West Orange, NJ -- believe the total is 250 feet which is quite amazing when it was created years and years ago.

On the modern side of things -- staying with Colorado -- but one comes to mind -- Sanctuary in Sedalia. The drop alone from the 1st hole (Rattlesnake tees) is enough for a full shave and a cup of joe.

Hats off to Mike B for mentioning Mountain Air in Burnsville -- a number of holes there that really do PLUNGE.

Cary L:

If you are talking about plunged at Lakota Canyon -- the walk back to the tip tee at #8 is a real climb -- UP AND UP.

[Larry_Rodgers]

Elevation difference at La Reunion Golf Club in Antigua Guatemala is 225 meters. Carts only bentgrass fairways, very rarely gets over 80 degrees. Very interesting location in central America, No wonder the Spanish set up their operation there in the 1600's.

[Jeff Schley]

Saw this thread as we were talking about elevation in the TR analogy thread.
Some stats I got from Provisualizer Total Ascent on a few courses (which I think is pretty accurate for the total amount you have to walk uphill), keep in mind this is in meters. Some surprises for me.

• Emirates GC - 25
• TOC - 40
• Royal Liverpool - 46
• Shoreacres - 56
• Tara Iti - 59
• Royal Dornoch - 60
• Sand Valley - 66
• NGLA - 70
• Kingsbarns - 73
• Chicago GC - 75
• Sand Hills - 92
• Shinnecock - 97
• Yale GC - 97
• St. Andrews Castle - 98
• Lawsonia - 102
• The CC at Brookline - 103
• Pine Valley - 105
• Tobacco Road - 105
• The Bridge - 115
• Augusta National - 136
• Sleepy Hollow - 140
• Cypress Point - 152
• La Paz (Boliva) - 153
• Ellerston - 155
• Merion - 157
• Rock Creek Cattle - 158
• Crystal Downs - 164
• Chambers Bay - 168
• Mauna Kea - 173
• Himalayan - 178
• Alotian - 224
• Kawana - 225
• Bighorn Mountain - 248
• Stone Eagle - 251
• Wolf Creek - 265
• Kapalua Plantation - 278
• Sanctuary - 289
• Challenge at Manele - 319 

[Michael Felton]

Shinnecock and NGLA both seem pretty surprising to me.


I'm curious about a few others. Winged Foot, Royal Cinque Ports, Quintero in AZ. Winged Foot for how little, RCP to see how much up and down but never more than a few meters at a time affects it and Quintero because it's got some serious elevation changes on it.

[MCirba]

Cobb's Creek is 160 feet of elevation change from today's 10th green (high point) to the 1st green (low point).

Not exactly sure what we're measuring (seems not all the same thing per the original question), but it's a healthy walk.   The restoration of the original routing will change the walk-ability equation making the biggest climb earlier in the round.

[Jeff Schley]

Shinnecock and NGLA both seem pretty surprising to me.


I'm curious about a few others. Winged Foot, Royal Cinque Ports, Quintero in AZ. Winged Foot for how little, RCP to see how much up and down but never more than a few meters at a time affects it and Quintero because it's got some serious elevation changes on it.

Yes Michael I was surprised with those neighbors in Long Island as well.
Royal Cinque Ports - 34Winged Foot West - 69Winged Foot East - 70Qintero - 152

[Jeff Schley]

Cobb's Creek is 120 feet of elevation change from today's 10th green (high point) to the 1st green (low point).

Not exactly sure what we're measuring (seems not all the same thing per the original question), but it's a healthy walk.   The restoration of the original routing will change the walk-ability equation making the biggest climb earlier in the round.

Mike probably not the same thing. The Provisualizer site listed total ascent as a category they factor up. I believe it is the total amount you climb for an entire round assuming a straight line path. So you walk down 10 meters (not counted), but walk back up to the green 8 meters (counted), you ascend 8 meters for the course total. That was the best I could gather, unless others have more details.
Good tool and probably a good measure of fitness level needed.

[MCirba]

Thanks, Jeff...I need to look at that tool.   Wondering about places like Pikewood National and a few others.

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