[Matt Bosela]

Ian and Emil:

Just adding to what Jeff and Philippe have said about the severity of the course - I understand that it took Whitman some time to believe that this piece of land was suitable for a golf course.  From what I've read, he had to walk the property multiple times before he truly believed there were enough flat spots for landing areas.  I imagine that is one of the reasons you have a couple long walks from green to tee, with #11 to #12 being the toughest from my recollection but I think it's important to note that the majority of the holes have short transitions from green to tee.

I have no idea how much earth was moved near the 4th green but Richard did tell me that the 8th hole required the most work and he said it was a "testament to Rod's genius" how he was able to make that hole look as natural as it does.  From what I understand, most of the work done on the rest of the holes was just making sure the fairway landing areas were wide enough to help playability in the afternoon winds.  Richard also specifically mentioned that some extra work had to be done near the 7th green.

I'll be posting a few more holes as the day progresses.

[Matt Bosela]

7th Hole: Par Five – 646 Yards (Championship Tee)

From the longest par three on the course to the longest hole period at Sagebrush. Thankfully, the wind is still behind you here as you face a slightly uphill tee shot that ideally is aimed at the Yurt on the hillside with a slight draw. You can try to gamble a bit and hug the left side and the gaping fairway bunker to give yourself a shorter second shot.

View from back tee



The second shot is completely blind, with an aiming rock in the distance. You want to go slightly right of that to leave yourself a short, downhill third shot.

View from landing area



If you accidently go left, as I did, this is what you will be facing...



This bunker is about 120 yards from the green and there is about 40 yards of sagebrush in between this and the green.

The ideal third shot is a little pitch shot down to one of the biggest greens on the course, measuring over 20,000 square feet. It's so big, the back portion acts as a nursery for the rest of the course, if needed.

View from approach area



View from behind green looking back toward tee



Side view of green with Nicola Lake in background



Richard calls this hole the 'redheaded stepchild' of the golf course, as it is the hole that has given them fits from a conditioning standpoint.  Perhaps Jeff or Philippe can elaborate further about the problems they encountered here at the 7th. 

They just seeded the green late last year but it looked and played just fine to me. Yeah, there were some rough spots on the fairway but nothing that detracts from the playability of the hole.  This is a tough hole, one that I would need a few more cracks at before completely understanding the best way to play it, especially on the layup shot.

[Philippe Binette]

The 7th was built partially with our eyes closed since the topsoil pile was on that fairway for the entire project.

[Matt Bosela]

8th Hole: Par Four – 474 Yards (Championship Tee)

Richard called this “Rod’s Hole” and said that the work he did to make this hole playable was a “testament of his genius”.  It’s a long par four with an uphill and blind tee shot. The ideal line is over the aiming rock just in front of the fairway. The fairway here slopes sharply from right to left and eventually goes downhill so slight misses to the right may be rewarded.

View from back tee



The second shot plays shorter than the distance, as the hole tumbles downhill all the way to the green. Again, the fairway slopes sharply from right to left so the perfect shot is hit toward the right edge of the putting surface and will kick toward the middle. This might be the most beautiful vista on the entire golf course, with the ninth fairway sitting well above the eighth green in the distance.

View from fairway looking to green



View from behind green looking back toward tee



This is a great green complex, completely naked with no bunkers for protection and a running shot is the best option. The putting surface very large and you can feed the ball into the back right portion of the green and watch the ball feed all the way to a back left pin.

[Jeff_Mingay]

That looks wonderful., Thanks for the photos, Matt, you must have had a great day.

Is the 4th green bulit up severely?
How minimalist is the course in general? The site is beautiful and spectacular, but looks a bit too severe in places

Emil,

The 4th green isn't built up at all. It's actually built at natural grade, there.

By "minimalist", I presume you mean "how LITTLE earthwork was done to create the course?”

Interesting question, considering Whitman’s initial reaction upon seeing the Sagebrush site was in fact: “You want to build a golf course there?!”

I talked with Rod shortly after this initial visit, anxious to hear what he thought of the property. In typical Whitman fashion, he said: “They want to build a course on the side of a mountain!”

Funny, in retrospect.

Getting back to Ian’s question for a moment, the property at Sagebrush was undoubtedly a challenging site upon which to route and build a golf course. But, again, other than a few sharp transitions from green to tee – namely 2 to 3, 8 to 9, 11 to 12, and 14 to 15 – the golf holes feel like golf holes. They’re easily walked.

It’s important to note as well that green to tee transitions at 3 to 4, 5 to 6, 6 to 7, 16 to 17, and 17 to 18, involve steps; literally. Tees are located right off the back/side of greens at these holes.  

This is a testament to Rod’s routing; as is the relatively minimal earthwork required to create the course. In brief, holes 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, and 18 (that’s 14 holes) required not much more than fills for tees and green, excavation of bunkers, and some small fills and grading, here and there, in the fairway areas.

Holes 5, 8 (as already noted), 11, and 16, on the other hand, took some work.  

As a result, Sagebrush was build for roughly half the amount of money that, for the sake of comparison, two other notable golf courses under construction in the same region, at somewhat similar sites, cost to build. Everyone involved with Sagebrush is very proud of this fact as well.      

[Jeff_Mingay]

Matt,

You mention the aiming rock at #8. Every time Rod and I discussed this tee shot during construction of the course, we were looking at the other aiming rock: The big one in the background!

[John Mayhugh]

Enjoying the tour a lot.  Nice to see what can be done with a boring piece of property.   

Bob Jenkins must be really busy not to have commented yet.

[Tom_Doak]

Ian:

For what it's worth, I sent Jim Urbina up to B.C. to meet Richard Zokol a few years ago and take a look at the property.  Jim thought it was spectacular, but doubted that anyone could build a walkable course there.

At the time, there was no money to build the course, so we did not chase the job, but we were pleased to hear that Rod had been hired.  It does look spectacular, and I hope I have a chance someday to see if it's walkable.  If not, though, I wouldn't dismiss it, as some have above.  Seems like having this course is a LOT better than having no course at all, and for this property, those were the only two options.

Jeff, Philippe and boys:

Well done, based on the pictures.  Do all of you have one leg shorter than the other now?

[Jeff_Mingay]

Tom,

We've played golf together, as you may recall (!). Based on that, I know YOU could walk Sagebrush, EASY  

On this note: Sagebrush IS walk-able for golfers in good physical condition. Again, it's only those steep green to tee walks that make it (impossible) for others to walk, from #1 tee to the home green.

Not sure this is a reason to entirely "dismiss" the course.

Don't want to get off topic here, but is Stone Eagle (for example) walk-able?

[Matthew Parish]

Matt, Jeff, anyone else familiar with the property,

Beautiful property.  I saw some discussion of the elevation change, but just curious, what is the average elevation (altitude) of the property?  That has to have an impact on its walkability. 

[Bob Jenkins]

For Mr. Mayhugh's benefit, I will be at Sagebrush on Saturday and will play with Will McEwan of this group.

This thread truly excited me and we are truly fired up for Saturday. I am currently sitting in our cottage at Predator Ridge looking over what will be #18 of the Carrick course and thinking I am very lucky to be able to be here, playing the Carrick course next spring when it is ready, and having Sagebrush 1.5 hours away.

I have talked to Dick Zokol several times and know how he has poured heart and soul into the course and it looks as though he, Rod and the others have come through big time! I know there have been barriers, partly due to the economic times and the remote nature of the site, but from all I can see so far, this will be  a special treat for those of us who live in BC and the NW USA. We will report further next week after our visit. Interesting to hear what Tom had to say about the site.

Bob

[Ian Andrew]

Just in case -

My intent with the "severity question" is to measure how hard this course was to build and make work on a tough site.
It was meant as a compliment to Rod, Jeff and Phillipe - as I said before I really like what I see.

It sounds like a lot of feeder slopes, ground game and kickers come into play - and that's what I really like.

It's on my must see - hopefully I'll return to the Okanagan soon

[Bob Jenkins]

Ian,

All of us out here hope you return to the Okanagan soon!

Bob J

[Matt Bosela]

Matt, Jeff, anyone else familiar with the property,

Beautiful property.  I saw some discussion of the elevation change, but just curious, what is the average elevation (altitude) of the property?  That has to have an impact on its walkability. 

Matthew:

The Sagebrush website indicates that the course sits about 2200' above sea level.  Is that the info you were looking for?

Glad to see all the great discussion!  Thanks to everyone for participating and glad to hear that Bob and Will are heading out this weekend.  I'll be sure to get the whole course done before Friday so you have an advanced preview before your round!

[Matthew Parish]

Matt,

Yep. That was it.  Given the surroundings in the phots and being without the benefit of a topographic map or a keen sense of Western Canada's geography, I thought it would be a little higher, maybe 4,000-4,500 feet.   

[Rob Rigg]

Well, I walk Tetherow when I play it despite the long green to tee transitions on a couple of holes and some rolling terrain so Sagebrush should be a similarly challenging but worthwhile walk based on the photos. It is not optimal to have tough slogs from green to tee but it can be worth it.

My comments earlier were not a dismissal of the course -  but if 95% of golfers are going to take carts because of the long green to tee transfers mentioned above, then that is unfortunate because this looks like a real gem that should be seen at walking pace while discussing with friends, not while zipping over the fairway in a cart.

Based on the comments about the terrain and challenges in routing the course, it sounds like the team did a very good job in making it as walkable as possible. Sometimes that is all you can do.

Matt - Your detailed photo review is fantastic.

[Philippe Binette]

I don't have a leg shorter than the other... I'd be really short if so.

On the severity of the site, I doubt there was a lot of possible routings out there...
Maybe, there was a possibility to make a walkable course at Sagebrush, but if would have been maybe 6300 yards long par 70. To do so, you avoid going on the summit at 12th hole (but it's such a pretty spot up there), you don't go down on the 10th green, and you split a couple of long holes (namely 7 and 14). Would it make it a better course ? I doubt it. 

if you tell me that there's a shuttle from 10 green to 11th tee and 11th green to 12th tee, I would consider walking it daily.
The green to tee transitions are less than 30 yards from:
1 to 2
3 to 4
4 to 5
5 to 6
6 to 7
7 to 8 (50 yards)
9 to 10
13 to 14
15 to 16
16 to 17
17 to 18
that's better than most courses.

I doubt the fact that carts are required takes something away from the course, there was a lot of carts at Sand Hills when I was there...

[Matt Bosela]

9th Hole: Par Four – 442 Yards (Championship Tee)

The last hole on the front side features a long carry from the back tee uphill over a carry bunker. The fairway is extremely wide here but you don't want to stray too far to the right, as the carry becomes much longer the further you go in that direction. I'd find out the hard way, as my tee shot faded a touch and ended up pretty much dead, right up against the ragged lip of the bunker.

View from back tee



The second shot must be played boldly over the right front bunker, as the green tilts quite sharply from right to left.

View from approach area



This green complex might be another that could qualify as the best on the golf course. There is a bunker cut into the left side of the green, with the green wrapping around the top of the bunker to give it almost a horseshoe-like design.

View from behind green





Richard and I must have spent at least ten minutes on this green, trying all sorts of cool shots. If you're on the back left portion of the green and the pin is front left, you can putt the ball all the way to the other side and it will hit the feeder slope and fall back toward the other side of the green and right to the pin. Conversely, if you need to access the back left pin from the front, you can chip the ball over the bunker from the putting surface if you'd like or try the putt using the contours of the green.

Richard also made note of the fact you're not confined to using only the putter on these expansive surfaces. However, if you take a divot, you're supposed to let the staff know so they can fix the damage.

Another great hole!

[Adam Clayman]

The course really looks like it's been there a while. The scale is so massive the lake looks small.

The attention to detail, making it appear that little was disturbed to create it, is a testament to the whole crew and is a truer definition of minimalism.

I have one question and one suggestion.

What is the justification for the left bunkers off of #1 tee shot? Framing? Containment? ...?

Since the site and hole transitions are not "ideal" carts are justified. Besides being needed from a revenue standpoint. Since the majority will likely not have a problem riding, and primarily for those who prefer to walk, I suggest some sort of Fore Caddie program. If there's a population to draw from.
This way, the carts will be there for any steep walks between holes while allowing the player to still walk the golf holes without a bag on his shoulder. Adding to the local economy through the fore caddy, introducing younger people to the game and the individuals is but icing on a beautiful cake.

Well done guys and nice write up. I bet there are some awesome photo ops when the sun and sky are just right.

[Matt Bosela]

Well done guys and nice write up. I bet there are some awesome photo ops when the sun and sky are just right.

Thanks Adam.  And yes, you're right about the great photos you can get late in the day - my photos of #17 and #18 will hopefully prove that!

I'll likely speed up the process a bit from here on out, giving Bob and Will a chance to see every hole before their day at Sagebrush on Saturday.

[henrye]

The photos are great.  Looking at them, the views look fantastic with the way the holes set up.  The fairway contours and movement look magnificent, and the bunkers look spectacularly carved out and rugged.  But.......from the photos, at least, the property looks extreme.  I don't think the issue is so much distance from green to next tee, but rather the difficulty of walking down/up the fairways.  I don't think Kapalua has long distances between greens and tees, but the site is simply too extreme for the average golfer to enjoy without losing their breath.  This course looks like it would be an exhausting walk.

The course also looks very difficult.  Does it play easier than it looks?

Zokol's concept of the Redtail like experience is really interesting, because to me, this course is so completely different.  Just from the pics, this place looks like it would fit with a high end resort for sportsmen - not the fly-fishing crowd, but the big game grizzly and elk hunters.

[Philippe Binette]

The holes separately are not hard walks (but not easy) except the first.

As for the course difficulty, the fairways are really wide, most of them around 60 yards wide, it doesn't look like this on the pictures because of the scale of the site.
On most approach you can use a big scale ground game feature to play away from the trouble a let the ball trickle toward the targets. you won't make a lot of birdies doing that but if your lag putting is good, you'll save your pars... it's like playing left at the Old Course.

if the wind is down, the targets are so big that the course would play fairly easy since you'll always have a swing at the ball.

the approach at 9 look to me to be the hardest on the course. If you fly the bunkers right, playing uphill and downwind, you'll have a hard time stopping the ball. If you try to run the ball on the left side, a right to left slope doesn't make that angle really receptive.

 

[Matt Bosela]

10th Hole: Par Three – 160 Yards (Championship Tee)

This little par three plays downhill and downwind, making it play quite a bit shorter than the yardage, especially in the afternoon when it’s gusty. 

View from members tee



There’s a bit more room to the right than it appears, with things opening up a touch beyond the hillside.  My tee shot rolled just through the green to the back left and ended up in some long fescue.  Richard pleaded with me to pull it out of there with no penalty, as he said the fescue should have been hacked down at greenside – he said he only intends the really poor shots to be penalized by fescue whereas shots just missed should be playable from shorter rough or the sagebrush.

There are some nice undulations on this large green, with a false front to be contended with as well.

11th Hole: Par Four – 488 Yards (Championship Tee)

Very long par four that benefits from the prevailing wind being behind the player on the approach shot.  One of the coolest tee shots on the course – the panorama here is just stunning and so grand in scale that I couldn’t properly frame the shot below to include the green (set well to the left) and the landing area off the tee, which is further to the right than shown below.   

View from back tee



The picture below shows the landing area off the tee, as the best line would be just a bit left of the centerline ‘fescue island’. 

View from back tee of landing area



The approach shot is downhill, making it play one to two clubs shorter and perhaps more depending on the helping wind.  Shots played to the right side will kick back toward the center of the green.

View from approach area



If you get a bit frisky with your line and end up left, this is what you might face, as there is a very steep slope that falls considerably from the green.  You can barely make out the flag, sitting in line with the fence on the right center of the photograph.

View from left of green



View from behind green looking back to the tee



To give you a sense of scale here, in the photo above you can see a group of players on the 11th tee way in the background.  Once near the green, you have to contend with a false front and a green that slopes sharply from right to left but low stinger approaches will work quite well.  A tremendous par four in my opinion, one that Richard birdied from the tips.

12th Hole: Par Three – 122 Yards (Championship Tee)

The 12th hole sits well up on top of the property and what a gorgeous spot it is.  Richard is reminded of Pine Valley when on the tee, with rugged and deep bunkers offering additional protection for the tiny putting surface that resembles an upside down bowl. 

View from back tee



View from the members tee



This is quite the test for a short one-shotter and there is truly nowhere to miss it, as anything not hitting the green almost assures the player of a bogey.  You aim for the middle of the green here and take your chances with the putter.

View from behind green looking back to the tee



There has been a lot of talk about the severity of the site in this thread and much of the problems with walkability at Sagebrush have to do with the transfer between the 11th green and the 12th tee.

I can honestly say that the beauty and challenge of this hole more than makes up for the long green to tee hike.  I was six inches from making the second ace ever on this hole but I swear that isn't influencing my opinion on the 12th whatsoever!

[Matt Bosela]

13th Hole: Par Four – 320 Yards (Championship Tee)

This downhill par four plays from the top of the property over the trout lake down below.  This is “Richard’s hole”: he wanted a risk/reward par four with similarities to Riviera’s wonderful 10th hole.  Here, the slope of the fairway takes the ball left to right so if you are looking to drive the green, which is definitely reachable, you have to hug the tree-lined hillside on the left to give yourself a chance to run it in.

View from back tee



Alternatively, you can choose to layup or hit into the expansive fairway to the right or short of the bunker.  However, that leaves an extremely difficult pitch over the front bunker to a green that slopes hard from right to left and front to back.

View from approach area



View from behind green looking back toward tee



You can see how the green falls away at the rear, penalizing any approach that isn’t hit with precision.  This is a really strong short par four.

The Hideout

I’d be remiss if I didn’t stop here and talk about ‘The Hideout’, the little getaway at the foot of the 13th tee.  I know this is a golf architecture website but I feel the Hideout is an important part of the experience at Sagebrush and a thread dedicated to the club would be incomplete without a good look at this great getaway in the middle of the course.



This is the second yurt on the property and it sits right on the private trout lake, giving players the ability to take a break from the golf action and do a little fly fishing!  Lots of extra rods onsite for those who didn’t bring their own gear!















It can also be defined as a halfway house on steroids, with interim food and beverage service, a big screen television and fine cigars and local wines, among other things.









The club also serves its signature steak dinner here in the early evening for many of its guests.  What a great place to unwind during or after your round and many players stick around until darkness falls.

14th Hole: Par Five – 584 Yards (Championship Tee)

A long par five that plays significantly downhill off the tee but moves back uphill on your second and third shots.  Tee shots need to carry the sagebrush but there is one of the widest landing areas on the course here.  Tee shots hit further right give better sightlines into the green but need to carry further to avoid the brush.  

View from back tee



You have the choice of giving it a go on your second shot or laying up, although the wind will likely be very strong in your face by this point in the round.  The ideal second shot hugs the left side to open up the visual to the green.  Shots hit to the meat of the fairway on the right side will leave a semi-blind approach.  

View from landing area



View from approach area



You can see above how tricky the third shot can be if you are a bit right of center, as you can see the pin but little else.  

View from behind green



Bunkers left and long will swallow a lot of golf balls here.  The left greenside bunker is very shallow and the prudent play on a short-sided shot is to putt the ball out, something I don’t usually get the opportunity to try.  Again, lots of different shots are required here and this is just another example.

15th Hole: Par Four – 356 Yards (Championship Tee)

A mid-length par four, short by championship standards, is played into the wind and challenges the player with a fairway that isn’t visible from the tee.  Another very wide fairway with shots hit to the left benefiting the most due to the left to right kicker slopes down below.  

View from back tee



The second shot plays back up the hill and likely from a sidehill lie to a very long and narrow green surface.

View from approach area



Shots that leak a little to the right or come up a bit short will fall way down the slope to the right, leaving a difficult pitch shot back up the hill or even worse, a tough bunker shot.

View from in front of green



View from right of green



View from behind green looking back to the tee



This is certainly not the most intimidating looking hole when looking at the scorecard but a tough second shot and a neat green site offer plenty of challenges, especially when the pin is up front.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Matt,

The building opposite "The Hideout", on the other side of the lake at #13, is the pump house. It's one of the most unique, attractive pump houses I've seen throughout my travels. Simply looks like an old ranch building, which fits the site beautifully. 

I can't recall, but this may have been Terry Donald's idea; with assistance from the great Bob Macdonald.

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