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Patrick_Mucci

What architectural feature
« on: August 23, 2009, 09:42:39 PM »
dislodges most golfers from their comfort zone ?

Which AF dislodges YOU from your comfort zone.

OB is not to be considered as it's not an architectural feature within the confines of the golf course.

As a corollary, what green speed takes you out of your comfort zone ?
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Dean Stokes

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Re: What architectural feature
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2009, 09:52:08 PM »
Patrick,

without reading the 3rd line my immediate answer was OB - stroke and distance is about the worst that can happen to you out there.

Surely the archie takes the ob into account when he places bunkers and thick rough at the other side of the fairway from the OB. He is using the OB to make you aim toward the other hazards and visa versa. No?

As for green speeds - anywhere between 5 and 8 scares me because the stroke then becomes a hit and from long distance I find that miserable.
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Joe Bausch

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Re: What architectural feature
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2009, 10:02:39 PM »
Funny, but my answer is not the much different than Dean's.  Perhaps this is why I've been no better than a high single digit golfer for the last 25 years or so, but off the tee I really do not feel comfortable if both left and right from the best line there is a chance I won't find my ball or play w/o penalty.  So a tee shot with OB on one side and a water on the other is no good for me and I'm way out of my comfort zone.
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Kyle Harris

Re: What architectural feature
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2009, 10:07:12 PM »
I can't go with the premise that OB is not a feature within the confines of the golf course.

It's a nullification zone for the golf course. It's a place from which play can NEVER occur.

How is that not an architecture feature within the confine of the golf course? If a ball can land there and it affects play, guess what, it's within the confines of the golf course.

It's like a Roach Hotel, balls can go in, but they can't come out.
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Dean Stokes

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Re: What architectural feature
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2009, 10:10:21 PM »
Here comes the green pen ;)
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Ed Oden

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Re: What architectural feature
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2009, 10:11:06 PM »
Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on August 23, 2009, 09:42:39 PM
dislodges most golfers from their comfort zone ?

Water.

Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on August 23, 2009, 09:42:39 PM
Which AF dislodges YOU from your comfort zone.

A significantly downhill tee shot.  Messes with my head since I just can't get my alignment right and consistently pull the ball.

Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on August 23, 2009, 09:42:39 PM
As a corollary, what green speed takes you out of your comfort zone ?

Anything below about 9.  I usually putt fast greens well and actually get progressively more comfortable as speeds increase.
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Joe Bausch

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Re: What architectural feature
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2009, 10:11:37 PM »
Quote from: Dean Stokes on August 23, 2009, 10:10:21 PM
Here comes the green pen ;)

I know.  And that is around the time I don't quite read a thread as closely any more.  ;)
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Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Jason Walker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What architectural feature
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2009, 10:12:43 PM »
Patrick-
For most golfers I would imagine it has to be the forced carry off the tee over water.

For me, it's a small green with closely mowed areas in front of bunkers.  I have fought the short game yips for several years -- you could give me a large bucket of balls and I may only chip a few over that bunker and on to a green.
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Bill Brightly

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Re: What architectural feature
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2009, 10:15:19 PM »
I don't know if I call it an "architectual feature" but I'd have to say trees (on the left) at 30 to 80 yards off a tee when i am  hitting driver. I hate chutes, but even one tree can make me forget how to hit a driver...
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Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: What architectural feature
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2009, 10:15:29 PM »
Short doglegs.  I hit a low ball with quite a bit of ball speed off my woods even when I'm hitting them well.  I can't tell you how many times, I've made a great pass at the ball and run it through.  It gets in my head early, and I'm done after that.  I don't have the confidence to go over the trees, and I can't consistently work the ball.  

That said, I'm starting to have a fondness for uneven lies, no matter how much they wreck my card.
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Tim Bert

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Re: What architectural feature
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2009, 10:16:28 PM »
Narrow fairway with long grass on both sides where lost ball is a distinct possibility.  Same penalty as OB, but not as frequently determined by course property.  This one is most likely either an architectural or maintenance feature.  I suppose if the architect drew it up on the plans then it is an architectural feature whereas if the super drew it up after the fact it is a maintenance feature.
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Matthew Parish

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Re: What architectural feature
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2009, 10:21:14 PM »
I'll say poorly-maintained or poorly-drained bunkers.  My standard response to someone who complains about the condition of a bunker is don't hit the ball in there, i's supposed to be a hazard.  But still, when it happens to me, there is something about hard-packed sand that just gets in my head.  If I skip a wedge across the stuff and thin a little bit on the first one, I am done the rest of the day. As for green speed, anything below 8.
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Shane Wright

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Re: What architectural feature
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2009, 10:41:53 PM »
I can't say that I have one AF that really gets to me,  but a few false fronts have definitely dislodged me in the past.  Harvester #7 is the first one that comes to mind and although it isn't technically a false front, #11 at Sand Hills is another.

I like fast greens, but a combination of really fast (10+) and a lot of wind take me out of my comfort zone. 
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Peter Ferlicca

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What architectural feature
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2009, 10:48:48 PM »
I don't know if you would consider this an AF, but a long dowhill par 3 always gets in my head.  If there is a par 3 that is over 240 yards downhill I just have no clue what club to hit.

When it comes to greenspeeds, if it is anything below a 9 I start putting all over the place.  I am pretty spoiled always putting on great greens that are always rolling at good speeds.
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Kirk Gill

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Re: What architectural feature
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2009, 10:51:00 PM »
I'm really thrown by being unable to see all of the landing area that's available to me. Seeing part of a fairway, but not all of it. Seeing part of a green, but not all of it.

May I add that I enjoy that feeling. It's kind of what I'm after. Being too much in my comfort zone makes for boring golf.
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"After all, we're not communists."
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Mark_F

Re: What architectural feature
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2009, 11:15:30 PM »
Green contours that halt or shunt a ball away when approached from an incorrect angle.  Most golfers seem to think they should be able to hit at the flag whatever their position on the fairway.

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Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What architectural feature
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2009, 11:21:06 PM »
I think blind shots take the vast majority of golfers out of their comfort zone.

I also think that slow greens throw me off.  I like them as fast as is prudent; the shorter the putting stroke, the less that can go wrong!  ;D
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Mike_Trenham

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Re: What architectural feature
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2009, 11:30:43 PM »
Tee shot, severely uphill forced carry. Sure to bring on a low hook.
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Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What architectural feature
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2009, 11:34:06 PM »
More specifically, I would say water or OB that the wind forces you to aim out over and bring it back to dry land and the target.
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What architectural feature
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2009, 12:23:05 AM »
Long forced carries are the worst because you don't need OB.

Its essentially carry it or else or you are hitting your shot from the same place again....pretty much the same as OB.
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Scott Sander

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Re: What architectural feature
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2009, 10:51:39 AM »
Downhill lies to elevated targets.

Sidehills?  Fine.  Uphill?  Fine.  Downhill-to-downhill or -level?  Fine.

But give me something downhill-to-elevated and I am powerless to think anything other than "Don't hit this fat!", which leads directly to...    :(



Green speed is the least of my demons, for whatever reason.  I suppose I rather prefer faster if only because it doesn't require a "hit" than can invite the yips
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Melvyn Morrow

Re: What architectural feature
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2009, 11:04:44 AM »

Cart Paths
&
Cart Paths
&
CART PATHS

"dislodges THIS golfers from HIS comfort zone" ;)

Green speed, its more the distance from the pin that defines the speed (for me)

Melvyn
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TEPaul

Re: What architectural feature
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2009, 11:11:06 AM »
"As a corollary, what green speed takes you out of your comfort zone ?"



Pat:

I would say I begin to get out of my "comfort zone" when green speed begins to exceed about 137.816 MPH particularly after I've been driving on the Pennsylvania Turnpike for a few hours at around 13.6 on the stimpmeter.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 11:12:43 AM by TEPaul »
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Scott Sander

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What architectural feature
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2009, 11:24:23 AM »
My apologies - I didn't answer the initial question.

Taking OB out of the equation, I think forced carries tend to be the most unsettling feature for the largest number of golfers.

When facing features of a left, right, or center variety, one tends to accept as a given that he will strike the shot cleanly.  His concern is chiefly which direction will that ball will fly.
  
The forced carry intimidates with severe penalties for a complete mis-hit, which is a much more insidious thought, particularly to the less-accomplished golfer, IMO.

Don't know if that makes much sense, but there you have it.

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TEPaul

Re: What architectural feature
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2009, 11:29:04 AM »
Here is a remark (from Bob Crosby's golf quote calender) that is typical of the result of a golfer out of his "comfort zone."


"The ball flew a full seven yards, carving a parabola of despair against the autumn sky, and nestled, as though in shame, in the protective shadow of a Virginia Creeper."
Thomas Bergin, golf aficionado
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