[Kevin Pallier]

What are your favourite courses from each “Golden Age” architect ?

Why are they your favourite ?

Being based in Australia I'm keen to understand from within their volume of courses which one's are standouts from GCAers POV ? and worth trying to plan to try and see on a trip to America ?

[ed_getka]

Kevin,
   I have limited exposure to Ross and none to Tillinghast thus far. For Ross I think seeing Plainfield is an absolute must. There can't be many Ross courses that are better than that. It was one of the first courses I played that had par 5's where you consistently had to think about every shot whether playing for the green in 2 or 3 shots and that is a rarity. Plainfield has such a diversity of par 4 holes that provide so many different looks which is also a strength of the course in my view.

[Kevin Pallier]

Ed

What's the extent of your exposure to Ross ?

I've read good things about Plainfield - would you know how it compares to a course like Aronimink ? or Oak Hill ?

In doing some searching - I found this list of "Ross" courses.......pretty prolific ?

This following is a list of golf courses for the design of golf course architect Donald Ross was at least in part responsible (per Wikipedia)

Canada
St. Charles Country Club, South Course, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Riverside Country Club, Rothesay, New Brunswick, Canada
Rosedale Golf Club, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Essex Golf and Country Club, Windsor, Ontario, Canada
Roseland Golf and Curling Club, Windsor, Ontario, Canada
Brightwood Golf and Country Club, Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada


 United States

 Alabama
Birmingham Country Club East and West Courses, Birmingham, Alabama

 California
Peninsula Golf & Country Club, San Mateo, California

 Colorado
Broadmoor Golf Club, East Course, Colorado Springs, Colorado
Lakewood County Club, Lakewood, Colorado

 Connecticut
Shennecossett Golf Course, Groton, Connecticut
Wampanoag Country Club, West Hartford, Connecticut
Country Club of Waterbury, Waterbury, Connecticut

 Florida
Pinecrest on Lotela, Avon Park, Florida
Bartow Golf Course, Bartow, Florida
Belleair Country Club, Belleair, Florida (36 holes)
Bradenton Country Club, Bradenton, Florida
Palma Soia Golf Club, Bradenton, Florida
Biltmore Golf Course, Coral Gables, Florida
Granada Golf Club, Coral Gables, Florida
Riviera Country Club, Coral Gables, Florida
Daytona Beach Golf Course (South Course), Daytona Beach, Florida
Delray Beach Golf Course, Delray Beach, Florida
Gulf Stream Golf Club, Delray Beach, Florida
Dunedin Country Club, Dunedin, Florida
Fort Myers Country Club, Fort Myers, Florida
Mark Bostic Golf Course, Gainesville, Florida
Florida Country Club, Jacksonville, Florida
Fort George Island Golf Club, Jacksonville, Florida
Hyde Park Golf Club, Jacksonville, Florida
San Jose Country Club, Jacksonville, Florida
Timuquana Country Club, Jacksonville, Florida
Seminole Golf Club, Juno Beach, Florida
Keystone Heights Golf & Country Club, Keystone Heights, Florida
Lake Wales Country Club, Lake Wales, Florida
Panama Country Club, Lynn Haven, Florida
Melbourne Golf Club, Melbourne, Florida
New Smyrna Beach Golf Course, New Smyrna Beach, Florida
Seminole Golf Club, North Palm Beach, Florida
Country Club of Orlando, Orlando, Florida
Palatka Municipal Golf Course, Palatka, Florida
Palm Beach Country Club, Palm Beach, Florida
Punta Gorda Country Club, Punta Gorda, Florida
Mayfair Country Club, Sanford, Florida
Bobby Jones Golf Course, Sarasota, Florida
Sara Bay Country Club, Sarasota, Florida
Ponce de Leon Resort & Country Club, St. Augustine, Florida
St. Augustine Links - South, St. Augustine, Florida
Palma Ceia Golf Club, Tampa, Florida

 Georgia
Athens Country Club, Athens, Georgia
East Lake Golf Club, Atlanta, Georgia
Washington Wilkes Country Club, Washington, Georgia

 Illinois
Beverly Country Club, Chicago, Illinois
Bob O' Link Golf Club, Highland Park, Illinois
Ravisloe Country Club, Homewood, Illinois
Oak Park Country Club, River Grove, Illinois

 Indiana
Hill Course, French Lick Resort Casino, French Lick, Indiana
Broadmoor Country Club, Indianapolis, Indiana

 Iowa
Cedar Rapids Country Club, Cedar Rapids, Iowa

 Kansas
Shawnee Country Club, Topeka, Kansas

 Maine
Augusta Country Club, Manchester, Maine
Lucerne Golf Course, Dedham, Maine
Penobscot Valley Country Club, Orono, Maine
Poland Spring Resort Golf Course (resdesigned and expanded), Poland Spring, Maine
Portland Country Club, Falmouth, Maine

 Massachusetts
Andover Country Club, Andover, Massachusetts
Ellinwood Country Club, Athol, Massachusetts
Woodland Golf Club, Auburndale, Massachusetts
Belmont Country Club, Belmont, Massachusetts
Fresh Pond Golf Course, Cambridge, Massachusetts
Ponkapoag Golf Course No. 1, Canton, Massachusetts
Cohasset Golf Club, Cohasset, Massachusetts
Concord Country Club, Concord, Massachusetts
Country Club of New Bedford, Dartmouth, Massachusetts
Oak Hill Country Club, Fitchburg, Massachusetts
Haverhill Country Club, Haverhill, Massachusetts
Hyannisport Club, Hyannisport, Massachusetts
George Wright Golf Course, Hyde Park, Massachusetts
Longmeadow Country Club, Longmeadow, Massachusetts
Ludlow Country Club, Ludlow, Massachusetts
Nantucket Golf Club, Nantucket, Massachusetts
Brae Burn Country Club, Newton, Massachusetts
Charles River Country Club, Newton, Massachusetts
Newton Commonwealth, Newton, Massachusetts
New Bedford Country Club, North Dartmouth, Massachusetts
Essex County Club, Manchester, Massachusetts
Salem Country Club, Peabody, Massachusetts
Country Club of Pittsfield, Pittsfield, Massachusetts
Plymouth Country Club, Plymouth, Massachusetts
Kernwood Country Club, Salem, Massachusetts
Orchards Golf Club, South Hadley, Massachusetts
Cohasse Country Club, Southbridge, Massachusetts
Vesper Country Club, Tyngsboro, Massachusetts
Oakley Country Club, Watertown, Massachusetts
Sandy Burr Country Club, Wayland, Massachusetts
Leo J. Martin Memorial Golf Course, Weston, Massachusetts
Weston Golf Club, Weston, Massachusetts
Wachusett Country Club, West Boylston, Massachusetts
Whitinsville Golf Club, Whitinsville, Massachusetts
Winchester Country Club, Winchester, Massachusetts
Bass Rver Golf Course, Yarmouth, Massachusetts

 Michigan
Birmingham Country Club, Birmingham, Michigan
Oakland Hills Country Club, Bloomfield Hills, Michigan
Dearborn Country Club, Dearborn, Michigan
Warren Valley Golf Club, Dearborn Heights, Michigan
Detroit Golf Club, Detroit, Michigan
Franklin Hills Country Club, Franklin, Michigan
Grosse Ile Golf and Country Club, Grosse Ile, Michigan
Shadow Ridge Golf Course, Ionia, Michigan
St. Clair River Country Club, St. Clair, Michigan
Rackham Golf Course, Huntington Woods, Michigan
Muskegon Country Club, Muskegon, Michigan
Western Golf & Country Club, Redford, Michigan
Knollwood Country Club, West Bloomfield, Michigan
Rogell Golf Course, Detroit, Michigan
HIghlands Golf Course, Grand Rapids, Michigan

 Minnesota
White Bear Yacht Club, White Bear Lake, Minnesota
Northland Country Club, Duluth, Minnesota
Interlachen Country Club, Edina, Minnesota
Minikahda Country Club, Minneapolis, Minnesota
Woodhill Country Club, Wayzata, Minnesota

 New Hampshire
Mount Washington Hotel (Mount Washington Course), Carroll, New Hampshire
The Balsams Grand Resort Hotel (The Panorama Golf Course), Dixville Notch, New Hampshire
Crotched Mountain Golf Club (first 9 holes), Francestown, New Hampshire
Manchester Country Club, Manchester, New Hampshire
Lake Sunapee Country Club, New London, New Hampshire
Maplewood Golf Club, Bethlehem, New Hampshire

 New Jersey
Crestmont Country Club, West Orange, New Jersey
Essex Fells Country Club, Essex Fells, New Jersey
Knickerbocker Country Club, Tenafly, New Jersey
Mountain Ridge Country Club, West Caldwell, New Jersey
Plainfield Country Club, Edison, New Jersey
Riverton Country Club (1900), Cinnaminson, New Jersey
Seaview Marriott Resort (Bay Course), Absecon, New Jersey

 New York
Mark Twain Golf Course, Elmira, New York
Monroe Golf Club, Pittsford, New York (near Rochester)
Oak Hill Country Club, Pittsford, New York (near Rochester)
Brook Lea Country Club, Rochester, New York
Country Club of Rochester, Rochester, New York
Teugega Country Club, Rome, New York
Tupper Lake Country Club, Tupper Lake, NY
Country Club of Buffalo, Williamsville, New York
The Sagamore Golf Course, [(Bolton Landing, New York)]

 North Carolina
Asheville Municipal Golf Club, Asheville, North Carolina
Biltmore Forest Country Club, Biltmore Forest, North Carolina
Grove Park Inn Golf Club, Asheville, North Carolina
Alamance Country Club, Burlington, North Carolina
Carolina Golf Club, Charlotte, North Carolina
Myers Park Country Club, Charlotte, North Carolina
Hope Valley Country Club, Durham, North Carolina
Highland Country Club, Fayetteville, North Carolina
Greensboro Country Club, Greensboro, North Carolina
Sedgefield Country Club, Greensboro, North Carolina
Hendersonville Country Club, Hendersonville, North Carolina
High Point Country Club, High Point, North Carolina
Monroe Country Club (The Back 9 Holes), Monroe, North Carolina
Mimosa Hills Country Club, Morganton, North Carolina
Catawba Country Club, Newton, North Carolina
New Bern Golf and Country Club, New Bern, North Carolina
Pinehurst No. 1, Pinehurst, North Carolina
Pinehurst No. 2, Pinehurst, North Carolina
Pinehurst No. 3, Pinehurst, North Carolina
Raleigh Country Club, Raleigh, North Carolina
Pennrose Park Country Club, Reidsville, North Carolina
Roaring Gap Country Club, Roaring Gap, North Carolina
Benvenue Country Club, Rocky Mount, North Carolina
Salisbury Country Club, Salisbury, North Carolina
Mid Pines Golf Club, Southern Pines, North Carolina
Pine Needles Golf Club, Southern Pines, North Carolina
Tryon Country Club, Tryon, North Carolina
Waynesville Country Club Inn, Waynesville, North Carolina
Cape Fear Country Club, Wilmington, North Carolina
Wilmington Municipal Golf Course, Wilmington, North Carolina

 Ohio
Manakiki Golf Course, (Cleveland Metroparks) , Willoughby Hills, Ohio
Brookside Country Club, Canton, Ohio
Congress Lake Club, Hartville, Ohio
Oakwood Club, Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Scioto Country Club, Columbus, Ohio
Dayton Country Club, Dayton, Ohio
Miami Valley Golf Club, Dayton, Ohio
Granville Golf Course, Granville, Ohio
Hamilton Elks Country Club, Hamilton, Ohio
Portsmouth Elks Country Club, McDermott, Ohio
Westbrook Country Club, Mansfield, Ohio
Shaker Heights Country Club, Shaker Heights, Ohio
Inverness Club, Toledo, Ohio
Mohawk Golf Club (Original/Back 9), Tiffin, Ohio
Mill Creek Park Golf Course, Youngstown, Ohio

 Pennsylvania
Jeffersonville Golf Club, Norristown, Pennsylvania
Buck Hill Falls Golf Club, Buck Hill Falls, Pennsylvania
Edgewood Country Club, Edgewood, Pennsylvania
Kahkwa Club, Erie, Pennsylvania
Immergrun Golf Club, Loretto, Pennsylvania
Aronimink Golf Club, Newtown Square, Pennsylvania
Schuylkill Country Club, Orwigsburg, Pennsylvania
Torresdale Frankford Country Club, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Pocono Manor East Course, Pocono Manor, Pennsylvania
Lulu Country Club, North Hills, Pennsylvania
Green Oaks Country Club, Verona, Pennsylvania
Conewango Valley Country Club, Warren, Pennsylvania

 Rhode Island
Goddard Memorial State Park, Warwick, Rhode Island
Metacomet Country Club, East Providence, Rhode Island
The Misquamicut Club, Watch Hill, Rhode Island
Point Judith Country Club, Narragansett, Rhode Island
Rhode Island Country Club, Barrington, Rhode Island
Sakonnet Golf Club, Little Compton, Rhode Island
Triggs Memorial Golf Course, Providence, Rhode Island
Wannamoisett Country Club, Rumford, Rhode Island
Winnapaug Golf Course, Westerly, Rhode Island

 South Carolina
Fort Mill Golf Club, Fort Mill, South Carolina
Lancaster Golf Club, Lancaster, South Carolina

 Tennessee
Holston Hills Country Club, Knoxville, Tennessee
Ridgefields Country Club, Kingsport, Tennessee
Bellemeade Country Club, Nashville, Tennessee
Brainerd Golf Club, Chattanooga, Tennessee

 Texas
River Oaks Country Club, Houston, Texas

 Virginia
Washington Golf & Country Club, Arlington, Virginia
Danville Golf Club, Danville, Virginia
Jefferson Lakeside Country Club, Henrico County, Virginia
The Woodlands Golf Course, Hampton, Virginia
The Homestead (The Old Course), Hot Springs, Virginia

 Wisconsin
Oconomowoc Golf Club, Oconomowoc, Wisconsin
Kenosha Country Club, Kenosha, Wisconsin

[ed_getka]

Kevin,
   As far as my feeble memory can dredge up I have played Plainfield, Holston Hills, Mill Creek (Ohio), Raleigh CC, and I walked many loops around Pinehurst #2 during the '99 US Open. I haven't seen Aronimink, but Wayne Wiggins would be a good one to ask as he played there growing up I believe.

[Mark Pritchett]

I think the Wiki list needs revising.

[Kevin Pallier]

Mark

Can you please elaborate ? I looked into the D Ross Society website and they had cover 400 courses listed.

As for Tllinghast  - I went to their Association website and the following.
"O/D"'s are listed as his "original designs" ?

Abington Hills CC (OD) Scranton, PA (Extinct)

Alpine CC (OD) 1931 Alpine, NJ

Aronimink GC (OD) 1915 Drexel Hill, PA (Extinct)

Atlantic Beach GC (OD) 1916 Atlantic Beach, FL (Extinct)

Anglo-American C (OD) Lac L'Achign, Quebec

Bailey Park CC (OD) Mt. Vernon, NY

Baltimore CC  Five Farms East (OD) 1926 Baltimore, MD

Baltusrol GC 1922 Lower Course (OD) Upper Course (OD) Springfield, NJ

Beavertail CC (OD) 1925 Jamestown, RI (Extinct) 

Belmont Park GC (OD) 1918 (FKA Hermitage CC) Richmond, VA

Berkshire Hills CC (OD) 1925 Pittsfield, MA

Bethpage State Park 1935 Farmingdale, NY  Black Course (OD) / Red (OD) / Green ®

Bin ghamton CC (OD) 1922 Endwell, NY

Bluff Point G&CC (OD)  Plattsburg, NY

Brackenridge Park GC (OD) 1916 San Antonio, TX

Bridgton-Highlands CC  (OD-9 holes) 1926 Bridgton, ME

Brook Hollow GC (OD) 1924 Dallas, TX

Captital City CC (OD-9holes) 1936 Tallahassee, FL 

Cedarbrook Hill (OD) (FKA Cedarbrook CC) Philadelphia, PA

Cedar Crest GC (OD) Dallas, TX

CC Club of Ithaca (OD) Ithaca, NY (Extinct)

Country Club of Syracuse (OD) (FKA Lafayette CC (OD) Jamesville, NY

Corsicana CC (OD-9 holes, R-9 holes ) 1926  Corsicana, TX

Davis Island GC  (OD-9 holes) 1926 Tampa, FL

Davis Shores CC (OD) 1926 St. Augustine, FL

Dellwood CC (OD) 1920 New City, NY

Dorval Municipal GC (OD) (FKA Elm Ridge CC) Montreal, Quebec

Elmwood CC (OD) 1920 White Plains, NY

Erie GC (OD) 1926 Erie, PA

Essex County CC (OD) 1918 West Orange, NJ

Golden Valley CC (OD) 1926 Golden Valley, MN

Fenway GC (OD) 1924 Scarsdale, NY

Forest Hill FC (OD) 1926 Bloomfield, NJ

Fort Sam Houston GC (OD-27 holes) La Oma Course Fort Sam Houston, TX

Fresh Meadow CC (OD) Flushing, NY (Extinct)

Golden Valley CC (OD) 1926 Golden Valley, MN 

Green Acres CC (OD) 1924 (fka) Illinois GC  Glencoe, IL

Indian Hills CC (OD) 1925 Mission Hills, KS

Ingleside CC (OD-9 holes) Atlanta, GA

Irem Temple CC (OD) Dallas, PA 

Island Hills GC (OD) Sayville, NY

Harmon CC (OD-9 holes) Lebanon, NY 

Johnson City CC (OD) Johnson City, TN

Kansas City CC (OD) 1925 Shawnee Mission, KS

 Kingsport CC (OD) Kingsport, TN (Extinct ) 

Kingston GC (OD-9 holes) Kingston, NY

Knollwood CC (OD) 1925  Elmsford, NY

Lakewood CC (OD-27holes) Westlake, OH

Marble Island GC (OD) Colchester, VT

Mount Pleasant CC (OD) Brown's Mills, NJ

Mountain Ridge CC (OD-9Holes) West Orange, NJ (Extinct)

Myers Park CC (OD-9Holes) Charlotte, NC

Myosotis CC (OD) Eatontown, NJ (Extinct)

New Castle CC (OD) New Castle, PA

Newport CC (OD) Newport, RI

North Shore CC (OD) 1917 Glen Head, NY 

Norwood CC (OD) Long Branch, NJ (Extinct)

Oak Hills CC (OD) (FKA Alamo Country Club) San Antonio, TX

Oaks CC (OD) 1921 (FKA Oakhurst CC) Tulsa, OK

Old Oaks CC (OD) 1925 Purchase, NY

Old Orchard CC (OD) Eatontown, NJ

Oswego CC (OD-9 holes) Oswego, NY

Philadelphia Cricket (OD) 1922 Philadelphia, PA

Pleasantville CC (OD) 1917 Pleasantelle, NY 

Port Jervis CC (OD-9 holes) 1921 Port Jervis, NY

Poxono CC (OD) Shawnee-On-Delaware, PA

Quaker Ridge GC (OD) 1918 Scarsdale, NY

Rainey Estate GC (OD-Lilliput) Huntington, NY

Ridgewood CC  (OD-27 holes) 1929 Paramus, NJ

Rochester G&CC (OD) 1925 Rochester, MN

Rockaway HC (OD) 1925 Cedarhurst, NY 

Rock Hill CC (OD-9 holes) Rock Hill, SC

Saint Albans CC (OD) St. Albans, NY (Extinct)

Saint Petersburg CC (OD) (FKA Jungle Club) St. Petersburg (Davista), FL (Extinct)

Sands Point GC (OD) 1928 Sands Point, NY 

San Francisco GC (OD) 1918 San Francisco, CA 

Saxon Woods GC (OD) 1930 Scarsdale, NY 

Scarsdale GC (OD) 1923 Hartsdale, NY 

Shackamaxon CC (OD) 1916 Westfield, NJ 

Shawnee CC (OD) 1911 Shawnee-On-Delaware, PA

Somerset Hills CC (OD) 1917 Bernardsville, NJ 

Southward Ho CC (OD) 1923 Bayshore, NY

Suburban GC ( OD) 1922 Union, NJ 

Sunnehanna CC (OD)  Johnstown, PA

Suneagles GC, at Fort Monmouth (OD) 1925 Eatontown, NJ

Swope Memorial GC (OD) Kansas City, MO

Tulsa CC (OD) 1919 Tulsa, OK  Upper Montclair CC (OD)

Upper Montclair CC (OD)  1920 & 1930 Clifton, NJ

Winged Foot GC 1923  West Course (OD) Mamaroneck, NY

[Phil_the_Author]

Kevin,

Actually the list on the Tillinghast Association website is slowly being revised. For one thing, it is incomplete. In 1934 Tilly wrote that he had "designed and built several hundred courses" during his career. This is quite possible and yet we only know of 89 that can be evrified at this time. We are aware of several others that most likely were done by tilly and are in the process of confirming them and they will then be put up on site.

In addition, there is also a listing of many of the courses that he either redesigned or made additions to. This too is being worked on...

[Kevin Pallier]

Philip

Thanks for the outlining information. I'm currently in the process of planning a trip to the US hence the questions. Can you possibly share your experiences re: same ?

[Phil_the_Author]

Kevin,

I try to stay away from ever stating which Tilly courses are the "best" for a variety of very good reasons. To me it is like picking a favorite child; all are equal and have both good and bad points.

Where will you be in the U.S.? WHEN will you be coming over? That is an important question as March isn't conducive to enjoying Tilly's work in the northeast as many of his courses aren't open for play. How flexible is your schedule as far as time and location? Tilly designed course from one side of the American continent to the other and on up into Canada. He may have even done a few in Mexico that have yet to be discovered.

It sounds like you want to see the work of several great American architects. That may be very difiicult with logistics, yet is well worth the effort of trying to make it happen...

[Mark Pritchett]

Kevin,

No big deal, I just noticed several omissions in Georgia (Augusta CC, Brunswick, CC of Columbus, Forest Hills) to name a few.  Camden CC is absent from SC and ditto for Chattanooga G and CC in TN among others.  I didn't peruse the list in great detail however.

I have enjoyed most of the Donald Ross courses I have played, I will skip the obvious choices and mention Asheville Municipal as a very fun course, especially the second nine.  Chattanooga G and CC and Athens CC have a lot of character and interest.  I would be happy to have either as my home course.

Mark

[Kevin Pallier]

Kevin,

I try to stay away from ever stating which Tilly courses are the "best" for a variety of very good reasons. To me it is like picking a favorite child; all are equal and have both good and bad points.

Philip

I believe I understand your position and as such I was looking moreso for comments on why specific Ross or Tillinghast courses were "favourites" as opposed to a listing of their "best" works ?

Where will you be in the U.S.? WHEN will you be coming over? That is an important question as March isn't conducive to enjoying Tilly's work in the northeast as many of his courses aren't open for play. How flexible is your schedule as far as time and location? Tilly designed course from one side of the American continent to the other and on up into Canada. He may have even done a few in Mexico that have yet to be discovered.

I recently posted a thread on the outline of my trip. It will be from the 2nd week in October to the last week in October.

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