News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Desmond Tolhurst's account
« on: July 28, 2009, 06:16:24 PM »
"In 1909, the golfers of the Merion Cricket club formed the Merion Cricket GC Association to examine the problem presented by the Haskell ball, namely that it had made theri course obsolete. The moving spirits of this organization were Rodman E. Griscom, Charlton Yarnall, Robert Lelsey, Walter Stephenson, Alan Wilson and his younger brother, Hugh.

They explored the possibility of acquiring land around the old course so that it could be lengthened. However, no such land was available. They eventually settles on a 120-acre tract, located a little south of the Phila and Western Railroad tracks on both sides of Ardmore Avenue. The golf association bought the property and leased it back to the Cricket Club. Much of the land had been part of a William Penn grant. Since 1744, it had belonged to the Johnson family. Originally a farm, the place was now neglected. On the property stood a stone farmhouse, built in 1824, and large bank barn.

The Annual Report of 1910 informed Merion Cricket Club member of these developments.

The MCC Golf Association appointed a committee to lay out the new course. Its chairman was Hugh Wilson. The other members were Rodman E. Griscom, Dr. Henry Toulmin, Richard S. Francis and Horatio Gates Llloyd, who originally acquired the land.

This was a fine Committee for the job. Griscoms' accomplishments have been outlined in the first chapter. Francis was an officer of a construction company, an engineer and a surveyor, and his skills were invaluable. However, the chief burden fell on Wilson, who was the principal architect of the course.

Hugh Wilson was an excellent golfer, and learned the game on Merion's Haverford course. At Princeton, he was captian of the university's golf team. Graduating in 1902, Wilson returned to Philadelphia and joined his brother Alan in the insurance business. Eventually, Hugh became the president of the business.

A golf pilgrimage
In 1910, the Committee decided to send Hugh Wilson to Scotland and England to study their best courses and develop ideas for thr new course. Before he left, he visited the site of the NGLA, America's first modern golf course, then under constrcution in Southampton, NY. While there he discussed his itinerary with Charles B. Macdonald, the designer of the National and winner of the first US Amateur in 1895. Macdonald had made a similar journey for the same purpose some eight years earlier.

Wilson spent about seven months abroad, playing and studying course and sketching the features that struck him most favorably. When he returned, he carried a pile of notes as well as sheaves of sketches and surveyor's maps of outstanding holes and features. All of these avidly studied by the Committee.

One mystery still surrounds Wilson's trip to Britain, and that is the origin of the wicker flagsticks now so much a part of Merions' mystique. For years, it was said Wilson first saw them at Sunningdale Golf club located in Berkshire, England. However when the Captain of Sunningdale visited Merion in September, 1987, for the 75th Anniverserary, he averred that Sunningdale never had wickers! So where did Wilson see them?

Some say that it was another course near London with a similar name to Sunningdale. Others tell the story of a lady member of Merion who married an English lord and then put in a nine-hole course on his estate, using flower decorated baskets instead of flagsticks. Since she was a Philadelphian, Wilson is said to have visited her on his British trip and borrowed the basket idea. However, so far both the 'other course' near London and the lady from Merion have proved elusive.

When Wilson returned from England, both Macdonald and his son-in-law HJ Whigham (an Oxford player and 1896 and 1897 US Am Champion) freely gave him their advice. So the Club had the benefit of their experience as well as the skill and knoweldge of the committee.

Francis takes a hand
An interesting sidelight on the design of the new course comes from Richard Francis, who wrote the following in 1950:
"Except for many hours over a drawing board, running instruments in the field and just plain talking, I made but one important contribution to the layout of the course.
 The land was shaped like a capital “L” and it was not very difficult to get the first 13 holes into the upright portion – with the help of a little ground on the north side of Ardmore avenue – but the last five holes were another question.
 I was looking at a map of the property one night when I had an idea. Not realizing it was nearly midnight, I called Mr. Lloyd on the telephone, found he had not gone to bed, got on my bicycle and rode a mile or so to see him. (Richard Francis lived next to the Haverford Station of the PRR) The idea was this: We had some property west of the present course which did not fit in with any golf layout. Perhaps we could swap it for some good use?"

A great team
Besides the expertise of Francis, Wilson also had a first-class crew. Supervising construction was Merion's first greenkeeper William S. Flynn, who had been groundskeeper with the Cricket Club. Also involved was Howard C. Toomey, another groundskeeper at the Cricket Club, and civil engineer. After World War I, the pair formed the golf course architecture firm of Toomey and Flynn and designed such outstanding courses as Rolling Green in Philadlephia, the Cascades course at the Homestead, Hot Springs, VA, the James River course for the CC of Virginia, and Cherry Hill Country Club in Denver. The firm was also chosen to finish and revising the bunkering at Merion after Hugh Wilson's untimely death. Flynn appointed Joe Valentine as his construction foreman. Valentine had also worked as a groundskeeper at the Cricket Club, and as an immigrant from Italy, his knowledge of Italian was invaluable in supervising the largely Italian-speaking constrcution crew with their horsedrawn roadscrapers.

Flynn and Wilson were close friends and thought alike on the subject of golf architecture. For example both agreed that hazards should be plainly visible and abhorred the invisible pot bunker so often encountered on older British courses. 'A concealed bunker has no place on a golf course,' Flynn declared. 'When concealed, it does not register on the players' mind as he is about to play the shot, thus loses its value.' He added, 'The best looking bunkers are those that are gouged out of faces of slopes, especially when the slope faces the player. They are much more effective in that thaey stand there like sentinals beckoning the player.' When the course was under construction and later, during revisions, Valentine would spread bed sheets on the sire of a proposed bunker so the Wilson, standing on the tee or the area from which the shot would be played, could be certain that the hazard could be plainly seen by the golfer.

Merion, a masterpiece
The payout that Wilson fashioned at Merion was masterly. It was even more remarkable considering it was his first effort in course architecture. He fitted the holes onto the land as compactly as jigsaw puzzle. As a result, player only had to step a few yards from each green to the next tee. The trip to the Old country had certainly paid off.

While Wilson admitted that his concepts sprang from the holes he'd seen in Scotland and England--the third hole was inspired by North Berwick's fifteenth hole (The Redan) and the 17th, with its swale fronting the green, is reminiscent of the famed Valley of Sin at St. Andrews' 18th hole--none of the holes at Merion is an out and out copy. They are all original holes in their own right. Wilson had absorbed the principles underlying the great hole, then applied them to the terrain at his command.

It has been said that Hugh Wilson grasped these principles of Scottish and English course design and conveyed them in his work better than Charles Blair Macdonald. However, to compare Merion to the NGL is somewhat of an 'apples and oranges' proposition. Macdonald set out to 'model each of the 18 holes (at the National) after the most famous holes abroad.' that is, to duplicate these holes. Wilson never intended to design Merion under such constraints. His objective was to build a course that would rival the finest British parkland course in beauty and shot values. He succeeded admirably.

If it were possible to physically lift Merion and set it dons at an appropriate site Britain, the native golfers would feel right at home on it in not time at all. they would appreciate the artfully set tees, aligned toward trouble rather straight down the fairway, and the sloping fairways, which so often present a hilly lie that makes the best shape of a shot doubly difficult, the naturalness of the bunkers and their plantings of dune grass and Scottish broom, the variety of green shape and the subtle contours of the putting surfaces, which sometimes almost defy reading, as well as their fast pace. The British love a course where you have to use your head, place your tee shots and hit precise shots with every club in your bag; that's Merion East, exactly.

Construction of the new course began in the early spring of 1911. By September, the grass seed, a German variety chose after much investigation and tests, had been sown. It was allowed to grow that autumn and the following spring and summer. On September 12, 1912, the old course at Haverford was closed, and on the 14th, the new course and the clubhouse were opened to members.

Incidentally, that date work started on the new course lays to rest an oft-told, rather romantic story that Wilson, on his return from Britain, miraculously avoided a planned sailing home on the pride of the White Star line, the SS Titanic. The liner struck an iceberg and sank on the night of April 14-15th, 1912. Obviously, if work started on the course in the spring of 1911, Wilson was already safely back in the United States before the ill-fated ship ever set out on its maiden voyage.

A report of the opening said that the course was 'among experts considered the finest inland links in the country.' This was the assessment that has been echoed down through the years."
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 06:27:24 PM by Tom MacWood »

Mike_Cirba

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2009, 06:46:37 PM »
Tom,

Have you hired a winsome assistant?


You have, haven't you??  C'mon...fess up you old dog you! 

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2009, 06:49:09 PM »

Regarding reply #3620 there is nothing in that either that Merion's (MCC) record got wrong. Tolhurst's 1989 Merion history book may not have included some of that early detail because the history book was only 176 pages the vast majority of which was devoted to other aspects of Merion's history than architecture. In fact, only about 5 1/2 pages of that 1989 Tolhurst history book was devoted to this particular phase of Merion East's architectural history. That does not indicate what Tom MacWood said----eg there was some 'sin of ommission' ;) just that not everything from Merion and MCC's records went into that history book.

Again, the point is the only thing that Tolhurst's history book (1989) got wrong was that 1910 trip abroad (and not 1912) and again that story did not even begin until about 60 years AFTER the creation of Merion East. In other words during the routing and design planning in 1911 everyone there at that time knew Wilson did not go abroad in 1910 but rather in 1912. The letter we have to Piper from Francis who was standing in for Wilson with coorespondence when Wilson was abroad said so, and as the Wilson report (found a year ago at MCC) clearly shows Wilson and his committee created numerous routing and design plans for Merion East.

So again, the only thing wrong in Merion's history or in the Tolhurst history book was a 1910 trip rather than the actual 1912 trip


TEPaul

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2009, 09:47:53 PM »
I suppose this means that Tom MacWood is now going to try to launch another campaign to try to prove what's in error in Tolhurst's Merion history book or else what some of us here got wrong about something.

Be my guest, Tom MacWood. You won't get any response this time on this one from me and I doubt you will from anyone connected to Merion. I'm sure you will not try to establish a research relationship with Merion or MCC this time either but if you do try it will be pretty interesting to see what happens in that vein.

Knock yourself out and if this website is willing to put up with your crap again on Merion's history all I can say is they deserve you.

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2009, 09:52:51 PM »
TEP
Everything I have underlined is in error. It reads like a piece of fiction, which is probably why you like it so much.

TEPaul

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2009, 10:24:27 PM »
Uh huh!

« Last Edit: July 29, 2009, 03:23:25 AM by TEPaul »

John Moore II

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2009, 10:32:04 PM »
I just have to ask, why on Earth do we need another Merion thread? Can't this be discussed on any of the other dozen or so threads that have all ready been started? Insane.

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2009, 10:35:16 PM »
TomM,

Funny how TEPaul was imploring us to address this issue, and now that you do he reacts as if you are doing something loathsome.

You are being much too stingy with your underlines.   Perhaps you need a category for speculation supported by a misunderstanding of the facts.


John Moore,

TEPaul pleaded with us to address this issue on a new thread, so perhaps this is Tom MacWood's attempt to reach out and be more cooperative and helpful. 

Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Mike_Cirba

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2009, 10:35:52 PM »
Tom,

I really hope your newly-hired curvaceous, winsome, bubble-headed assistant typed all of that, simply because you had to keep her busy doing something!   ::) :D ;)

Otherwise....phew....I think we all need to get outside in the sun or get laid or something.

This is getting to the point where the other 1490 member of GCA are going to hire the mental health professionals in our respective states to come with the little men in white to take us all away...

Seriously...

John Moore II

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2009, 10:41:24 PM »
John Moore,

TEPaul pleaded with us to address this issue on a new thread, so perhaps this is Tom MacWood's attempt to reach out and be more cooperative and helpful. 

Either way, my point stands, why do we need another thread? Can't we discuss enough for an entire lifetime on the main one?

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2009, 10:46:15 PM »
Mike
I typed it myself, and my typing skills are suspect. Believe it or not it didn't take that long. Actually its not that hard to believe based on its length and simplicity. It was fun, not only was it fun, it was extremely entertaining. I found myself laughing out loud as I typed/read it. A great piece of entertaining fiction.  

Mike_Cirba

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2009, 10:51:14 PM »
Mike
I typed it myself, and my typing skills are suspect. Believe it or not it didn't take that long. Actually its not that hard to believe based on its length and simplicity. It was fun, not only was it fun, it was extremely entertaining. I found myself laughing out loud as I typed/read it. A great piece of entertaining fiction.  

Tom,

Somehow, sadly, I believe you.   I've been there too in recent weeks.  

But, we don't have to live like this, Tom...

I'm going to pick up some six-packs, an ounce of pot, and stop by in a few hours.   It's only about 8 hours from here to Columbus, and if I hire a driver, I can probably get there in six.

I'll beep outside your place, and you and I are going to head out and party like it's 1999.

Clearly, we need to blow off some steam and our constant debating about Tolhurst and Campbell just ain't getting it done.  

Do you prefer Yuengling or Iron City?

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2009, 10:52:26 PM »
John Moore,

TEPaul pleaded with us to address this issue on a new thread, so perhaps this is Tom MacWood's attempt to reach out and be more cooperative and helpful. 

Either way, my point stands, why do we need another thread? Can't we discuss enough for an entire lifetime on the main one?

Understood.  My post was half in jest.  But it does help sometimes to keep the conversation a bit more focused if there is a narrower topic than just all things Merion.    But I do understand your frustration and the frustration of others.

By the way, I had occasion to look for something in my Essay the other day, and noticed that the formatting got completely mangled when we switched to the new site.   The citations definitely need work, but hopefully if Ran and Ben get it put back together again it might be a little  easier to follow.
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Mike_Cirba

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2009, 10:56:34 PM »
If you bring David, I'll bring Tom Paul.

Those guys can pay for the wine.

If they start arguing we can ditch them at Weiskopf's place.

Better yet, they can head to the Jack Nicklaus household for a design symposium. 

Please tell me there is somewhere more fun in Columbus than the Hurdzan Library where we can go?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 10:59:20 PM by MCirba »

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2009, 10:59:52 PM »
TomM,

Funny how TEPaul was imploring us to address this issue, and now that you do he reacts as if you are doing something loathsome.

You are being much too stingy with your underlines.   Perhaps you need a category for speculation supported by a misunderstanding of the facts.


David
I was deliberately conservative with the underlines. There is ton of unsupported speculation and many sins of omission, both of which I wasn't sure how to address.

I would have been happy if no one would have commented. The account speaks for itself and really needs no comment.

John Moore II

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2009, 11:06:55 PM »
John Moore,

TEPaul pleaded with us to address this issue on a new thread, so perhaps this is Tom MacWood's attempt to reach out and be more cooperative and helpful. 

Either way, my point stands, why do we need another thread? Can't we discuss enough for an entire lifetime on the main one?

Understood.  My post was half in jest.  But it does help sometimes to keep the conversation a bit more focused if there is a narrower topic than just all things Merion.    But I do understand your frustration and the frustration of others.

By the way, I had occasion to look for something in my Essay the other day, and noticed that the formatting got completely mangled when we switched to the new site.   The citations definitely need work, but hopefully if Ran and Ben get it put back together again it might be a little  easier to follow.
David, I had not looked at the essay since the site switched. It was the previous version I had seen and did not think the citations were what I would have termed to be proper. I'd like to see a revised copy of it posted with updated citations, personally. But I am not sure if Ran and Ben are able to do that.

Mike_Cirba

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2009, 11:07:44 PM »
Tom,

I'm really hoping you didn't make her read the ENTIRE Tolhurst book.   ::)

Seems such a waste to me.   :o


Peter Pallotta

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2009, 11:09:58 PM »
If you bring David, I'll bring Tom Paul.

Those guys can pay for the wine.

If they start arguing we can ditch them at Weiskopf's place.

Better yet, they can head to the Jack Nicklaus household for a design symposium. 

Please tell me there is somewhere more fun in Columbus than the Hurdzan Library where we can go?

Just promise me something, Mike.  What happens in Ohio stays in Ohio, alright?

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2009, 11:11:03 PM »
Tom,

I'm really hoping you didn't make her read the ENTIRE Tolhurst book.   ::)

Seems such a waste to me.   :o



I'm not sure if Tolhurst is still living or not, but if he is, may I suggest you get him to write the history of Cobb's Creek. 'The Finest Public Course in America" I think would be a suitable title.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 11:16:59 PM by Tom MacWood »

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2009, 11:28:25 PM »
John Moore,

TEPaul pleaded with us to address this issue on a new thread, so perhaps this is Tom MacWood's attempt to reach out and be more cooperative and helpful. 

Either way, my point stands, why do we need another thread? Can't we discuss enough for an entire lifetime on the main one?

Understood.  My post was half in jest.  But it does help sometimes to keep the conversation a bit more focused if there is a narrower topic than just all things Merion.    But I do understand your frustration and the frustration of others.

By the way, I had occasion to look for something in my Essay the other day, and noticed that the formatting got completely mangled when we switched to the new site.   The citations definitely need work, but hopefully if Ran and Ben get it put back together again it might be a little  easier to follow.
David, I had not looked at the essay since the site switched. It was the previous version I had seen and did not think the citations were what I would have termed to be proper. I'd like to see a revised copy of it posted with updated citations, personally. But I am not sure if Ran and Ben are able to do that.

Hopefully at some point you will.  It is a bit tricky though, because since my essay a few things have come out that I cannot authenticate, yet they probably have some degree of truth in them and need be addressed.  I had that problem with the first draft and just fudged it by referencing where I got the information.  But that doesn't really cut it.  The whole thing is pretty bizarre to me from a documentation perspective.   But at some point I think I will get to see what I need to see, and things will flow pretty quickly from there.
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2010, 10:03:12 PM »

I believe Jim Sullivan spelled out your first three contended remarks and asked that you tell why you feel they are inaccurate.

Are you planning to respond to Jim's questions, because he seems to be the only one interested in going down this hole again?

Mike
I will address them if you'd like, but I thought TEP said he would address them. Are you giving him another pass?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2010, 10:06:26 PM by Tom MacWood »

Mike Cirba

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2010, 10:10:31 PM »
Tom,

You resurrected this thread for purposes I surely don't understand.

If you have points or new insight or evidence around any of your underlined first three contentions that sully asked you about, I'm sure he'd aPpreciate your answer to his question.

Surely this is more relevant than Kelsey Park, which I'm thinking we should start a 100 page thread debating the architectural merits of. ;)

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2010, 10:28:26 PM »
It is Kelsey City, and you bated me to start that thread. Are you giving TEP another free pass?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2010, 10:34:07 PM by Tom MacWood »

TEPaul

Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2010, 10:38:03 PM »
“Quote from: MCirba on Today at 06:21:33 AM

I believe Jim Sullivan spelled out your first three contended remarks and asked that you tell why you feel they are inaccurate.

Are you planning to respond to Jim's questions, because he seems to be the only one interested in going down this hole again?

Mike
I will address them if you'd like, but I thought TEP said he would address them. Are you giving him another pass.”






Tom MacWood:

I think this is another good example why so many of us find that trying to discuss anything with you is so difficult to do. The following is what Jim Sullivan said today:








“Since I'm not too into circle jerks, and  do possess the rare (in here anyway...) ability to discuss these things like an adult, I'll start...


- In 1909, the golfers of the Merion Cricket club formed the Merion Cricket GC Association

- They explored the possibility of acquiring land around the old course so that it could be lengthened.

- The golf association bought the property and leased it back to the Cricket Club.


These are your first three underlines from that thread...how are they meaningfully inaccurate?”






Tom MacWood, I responded to Jim Sullivan that those three statements from Tolhurst’s Merion’s history book are just not meaningfully inaccurate. They are not factually inaccurate at all. I have copies of the actual MCC contemporaneous club records on my computer that are found in the archives of MCC and Merion G.C. that explain why they are true. What more do you expect me to do than that? If you are still expecting or demanding that I scan them and put them on here that is not going to happen. We have been explaining that to you on here for years now and the very specific reasons why! Merion GC has explained the same thing to you went you emailed them and asked if they would send them to you somehow. They explained what their process is to you and to anyone else interested in the history and archives of Merion. You were being treated no differently than anyone else with an interest in the history of Merion. In those emails to the club’s historian and to the clubs “architectural historian” you responded to them by ccing the president of Merion! Why in the world did you do that?? No one asked you to do that and most certainly no one at Merion expected you to do that. So why did you do it? Was this just another way of you trying to embarrass Wayne Morrison? If so what is the matter with you? If it was not that do you have no idea at all of commonsense or normal etiquette with this kind of thing? This is an issue and subject for a club’s historian, not the president of the golf club. Is It possible you don’t know something like this or can’t understand it? If so, I must say, you sure do have a lot to learn about research, their processes and how to go about it with clubs like Merion. If you need some help in understanding things like this then please get in touch with some of us who do know that club and others like it and we will be more than happy to explain to you what to do in this context. Is there anything in the world wrong with me informing you of something like this, in your opinion, and if so please tell me why? It is just this kind of thing on here where some of us can help each other out.

If you are still not satisfied with that and you actually want to see them yourself you know what you have to do because the club and its historians explained it to you very comprehensively and in a most accommodating manner. You have to actually establish a research relationship with the club and actually come here to look at these things yourself as we have done for years. Why is it that the likes of you and Moriarty think you should be treated any differently than anyone else somehow?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2010, 10:46:13 PM by TEPaul »

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desmond Tolhurst's account
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2010, 11:23:27 PM »
You did? I don't think you addressed his questions at all.

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back