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Michael Dugger

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Alcoholism in golf course construction crews
« on: June 17, 2009, 02:32:10 PM »
On the heels of the thread about architects and drinking.....

We had a guy in Vegas who lost his car.

We tried to help him find it, but talk about needle in a haystack.  All he remembered from the night before was the hotel had a red door.  Not sure the name of the girl; surely couldn't recall how he got home.

A lot of puffy faces and bloodshot eyes each morning, for it seemed to me the life of a golf course construction worker was to work your butt off all day long and get drunk each night.

I thought it was a wretched way to live...

comments?  other stories? 



What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alcoholism in golf course construction crews
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2009, 02:39:30 PM »
Michael,

It's never been my MO, but I've had to tolerate a few substance abusers while on construction jobs. It really pissed me off when my stuff started disappearing. I guess their lifestyle was more important than friendships and work relationships.

Too much of a good thing isn't good at all.

Joe

" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Alcoholism in golf course construction crews
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2009, 02:51:45 PM »
I will not say where or when, but my favorite comment about a construction crew ever was this from a friend of mine:

"Just when we finally get some kind of rhythm going, [the project manager] decides to drug-test the crew on Saturday morning, and we have to let go half of the crew."

He was referring to the labor crew in that case and not the highly-paid shapers, but it was still pretty funny (and also true).

Bruce_Dixon

Re: Alcoholism in golf course construction crews
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2009, 02:53:51 PM »
I had a shaper actually ask if I minded if he smoked a joint while operating his machine...  of course I said absolutely not.

On another job, there was a small group of manual labourers that would disappear into the bush at noon each day to 'eat their lunch'.  I'm pretty sure I know what they were up to as well.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 11:29:06 PM by Bruce_Dixon »

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Alcoholism in golf course construction crews
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2009, 04:07:53 PM »
Its a tough life and does seem to be rampant, even among shapers who can have the temperamental artiste mentality just as much as ego driven gca's.

I can handle the travel a few days to a week at a time, but living out of apartments (not that my post divorce town house is anything special) would drive me nuts.

Cheers to the guys who are willing to do it.  Double cheers to those who do it without drinking doubles until they see double.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Jeff Zeagler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alcoholism in golf course construction crews
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2009, 04:23:10 PM »
These stories remind me of the time when I first got in the insurance business, I asked a New Orleans-based roofing contractor about his drug policy.  He just laughed and asked if I was kidding.  I assured him I was very serious and that drug testing protocols are a critical factor insurance companies' underwriting process.  He paused and said, "Son, if I start drug testing I'll lose 75% of my crews.  Hell, would you crawl on top of a roof during Summer in south Louisiana unless you had some sort of habit to support?".  Lesson learned...

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alcoholism in golf course construction crews
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2009, 04:49:18 PM »
I have just spent some time responding to this post. It suddenly disappeared. What a waste of time!

Mike Lacey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alcoholism in golf course construction crews
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2009, 08:51:44 PM »
I am pretty sure this issue is not limited to golf course contruction crews.

I worked my way through college building swimming pools in the Delaware Valley.  I learned many valuable life's lessons.  Most notably:

Don't pay the crew TODAY.........If you want them to show up TOMORROW. 

and

Just cuz Roxborough is spelled with an X - does not mean there aren't any.  That was 2 weeks on the business end of a jackhammer and Schuylkill Expressway traffic back and forth to S. Jersey.  Owner of the company lost his rear on that one. 

John Moore II

Re: Alcoholism in golf course construction crews
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2009, 09:18:18 PM »
We had a guy on the outside operations staff at one of my former clubs who was known to fire up a joint or 4 while he was on shift. Had a bartender at the club who would smoke joints in the bar at night. I think alcohol/drug use is a common theme in any workplace.

Shannon Wheeler

Re: Alcoholism in golf course construction crews
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2009, 09:24:33 PM »
I've never seen anyone work so hard and for so long as the guys on a golf course construction crew.  (By the way this takes nothing away from farmers, oil drillers, coal miners, etc., etc.) In the end it's only a game :)

Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alcoholism in golf course construction crews
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2009, 09:38:19 PM »
I had a shaper actually ask if I minded if he smoked joint while operating his machine...  of course I said absolutely not.

On another job, there was a small group of manual labourers that would disappear into the bush at noon each day to 'eat their lunch'.  I'm pretty sure I know what they were up to as well.


Bruce, the way you say it here it sounds as if you didn't mind if he smoked a joint while operating his machine! I want to be on that crew.  ;)
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Joe Hancock

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Re: Alcoholism in golf course construction crews
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2009, 09:57:31 PM »
It stops being funny when the guy driving the 35 yard off road dump truck almost backs over your bulldozer because he's been tokin' the whole morning......

I don't tolerate that well. A few beers after work...great. Drunkeness, getting high or anything worse is out of my comfort zone personally and on the jobsite...including man camp!

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alcoholism in golf course construction crews
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2009, 10:23:33 PM »
You're right Joe. Personally I won't operate any vehicle after having 1 drink. I don't remember where it was that I heard it, but the way alcohol affects brain and motor function is very stark. For someone of my weight 1 drink is the limit at which everything will function at or near capacity. I just go one better because I'm such a lightweight.

There probably isn't a single one of us on here who isn't affected or touched by alcoholism or substance abuse in one way or another. In a perfect world any humor about it would be in bad taste. Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world. And humor is one mechanism to make dealing with it bearable. Alas, alas.
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alcoholism in golf course construction crews
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2009, 10:26:49 PM »
Believe me, Charlie, there's plenty of times I laugh at the pickled. But, it has to be a "relatively" safe environment for it to be funny. Put the near toxic wasted behind the wheel and all jokes are off........

It's not a soapbox issue for me, it's just common sense that disappears with certain substances in excess.

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Alcoholism in golf course construction crews
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2009, 10:41:36 PM »
I think this thread touches on a bit of Americana that permeates many classes and professions.

Growing up in the rural south, it was well known that any manual laborer was going to his vices on the weekend.  I suspect it's the same everywhere.  My boss on my summer job in high school had an older fellow that had been his "helper" on pest control jobs for 40 years or more.  When it was really bad, boss would take worker home on Friday's with ten or so 40's of Colt 45 and leave him at his house (sans car) and pick him up on Monday morning.  The rule was, "be ready to work Monday,and for God's sakes don't go anywhere!"

In the flying world, alcoholism is a surprisingly bad problem.  Not for it's impact on the job, but for it's impact on things outside the cockpit.  Most of us are so damned afraid of losing our rating due to physical or chemical issues, that it doesn't affect work. But it sure affects families and friends. I do get the feeling however--like Tom said--take alcohol away from aircrews, and you'll have some mighty unhappy and ineffective aviators come work time.  But knowing when to stop blowing off steam by imbibing is the key.

Bruce_Dixon

Re: Alcoholism in golf course construction crews
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2009, 11:35:35 PM »
Charlie;

I guess he asked figuring that I would be okay with it.  I wasn't, and haven't used him for any projects since.

Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alcoholism in golf course construction crews
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2009, 02:35:00 AM »
After years of travelling and being enticed by bars, mini bars and various other alcoholic activities I decided to give up 2 years ago and have not touched a drop since.  I have not regretted it at all.  I have many (maybe too many) stories from my days in the Army and construction.

My guys tend not to touch much Monday to Saturday as they work loooong hours and just could not hack it and all of them are over 40 now so times (or their bodies) have changed.  Saturday or Sunday afternoon is usually blow out time depending on what football match they are watching in their local pub.
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Derek Dirksen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alcoholism in golf course construction crews
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2009, 11:32:35 AM »
This is funny to read some of the comments on this thread.  Especially some of you have never traveled like we do building golf courses.  Basically we are like gypsies.  One thing I have noticed is that in the 10 years I have been traveling, the drug use has seemed to have gone down.  Not saying that it doesn't exist but I notice less and less people with the tell tale signs.  Now the alcohol use has not declined at all.  I have not met many old timers that don't drink a bunch.  The alcoholism and the travel just seem to go hand in hand.

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alcoholism in golf course construction crews
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2009, 11:42:00 AM »
This is funny to read some of the comments on this thread.  Especially some of you have never traveled like we do building golf courses.  Basically we are like gypsies.  One thing I have noticed is that in the 10 years I have been traveling, the drug use has seemed to have gone down.  Not saying that it doesn't exist but I notice less and less people with the tell tale signs.  Now the alcohol use has not declined at all.  I have not met many old timers that don't drink a bunch.  The alcoholism and the travel just seem to go hand in hand.

That's sort of my point in starting this thread.

It seems the drinking is a result of the long hours and monotonous work.  Of course your "band of gypsies" have zero friends in the area where you are working......your wife (if she's crazy enough to hook up with a guy like you) probably has zero friends in the area as well.

American culture has done a fabulous job of creating situations where pitfalls are around every corner.  

Gotta build it faster, gotta work harder, longer.....

What are these people to do for social outlets?  You already spend 60 hrs a week with the schmoes you work with, surely that's enough time to get sick of them.

So you go to the bar, that's what, or sit at home, resting your stinky feet, crying in your beer over how much your life sucks.....

It's a profession destined for addiction, methinks, and I cannot help but wonder if that leads to less quality work?
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Derek Dirksen

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Re: Alcoholism in golf course construction crews
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2009, 12:20:49 PM »
Social outlets, that's funny!!!  You hit it head on Michael.  As far as work quality goes I'm not sure I agree with that totally.  I think the quality of work is directly linked to the time frames you touched on earlier.  Its insane the time frames that are happening these days on both new construction and remodels.  That's for another thread.  You are right we have no friends in the area, my wife is crazy (she married me knowing what I did for a living, although she is an army brat).  My wife has always traveled with me up until this job I am on now.  The one thing she always tried to do was treat the main core of guys (basically the white guys, shapers, supers, and operators) like family.  We were always having the guys over for dinner or to watch the big games (Huskers) and so on....  You always have a superintendent or an operator that was the loner type that didn't want the invitation.  But for the most part, "we gypsies" try to make the best of the situation.  As I get older I have cut my drinking a little.  For me its just not worth it siting in the dozer all hung over the next day. 

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alcoholism in golf course construction crews
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2009, 12:23:33 PM »
Derek

Are you an LUI guy?
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Derek Dirksen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alcoholism in golf course construction crews
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2009, 12:27:58 PM »
Yes, I currently am. 

Ian Andrew

Re: Alcoholism in golf course construction crews
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2009, 01:38:54 PM »
It’s funny how things have changed over time 20 years.

I used to bring a couple cases of bring beer once a month for the entire crew – irrigation etc. too.
There was plenty to go around. Hangovers were common place.

Then it was a case of beer and put on a simple BBQ with burgers and chicken.
People drank less and looked forward to going home.

Then it became a proper meal with steaks, salad and dessert - where people would have a simple beer or two.
If the work is near where I live – I invite them over for dinner - that is definately appreciated by someone far from home.

Coffee seems to be the prefered fuel of choice - even after work.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Alcoholism in golf course construction crews
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2009, 01:47:36 PM »
Ian:

It's not just as related to drinking, and not just because of our ages, either.  Times ARE changing.  There is much less tolerance for any bad behavior anymore.

Yesterday my wife was picking her daughter up from school and (from the parking lot) saw the end of a school disciplinary incident, with a student sitting in a squad car and the policeman sitting on him to try and calm him down.  In the old days there would have been a vice principal to handle that kind of stuff, but now the school has a zero-tolerance policy for violence and the administrators are worried about getting sued by parents, so they just call the cops instead.

This may not sound so strange to some, until you hear that the student was nine or ten years old.

Rick Sides

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Re: Alcoholism in golf course construction crews
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2009, 01:51:29 PM »
Mike,
Have you seen the movie the Hangover?  This sounds exactly like this! ;D

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