[Matt_Ward]

During a recent western trek I had the opportunity to stop by the new Nicklaus entry into the greater Las Vegas golf market.

The PGA of America has opted to create a western base which is roughly 50 miles northeast of Las Vegas. The first of a proposed 15 courses starts with an aptly named layout called The Chase at Coyote Springs.

Team Nicklaus has provided a daily fee option that is clearly beyond so much of the overrated and overhyped layouts that dot the landscape in the immediate vicinity.

How good is The Chase ?

For all the hype Shadow Creek gets The Chase has the goods to be mentioned in the same breath and in my mind is the superior course in terms of overall course routing, hole diversity and strategic options that continually confront the player.

The Chase plays to a max of 7,471 yards and a par of 72.

There's plenty of wiidth but Team Nicklaus has incorporated a slew of "eye" gimmicks meant to throw the player off balance at the tee. Some holes appear tighter than others and those that are wider invite complacency when you need to be on your toes more than you think.

One of the aspects that Team Nicklaus has includes is working the ball either around or over a series of bunkers that are placed in just the right spots to capture the least well-executed shot. Unfortunately, too many people, and this happens to be the case with many on this site, seem to believe that fairways must be as wide as Kansas with little real challenge until you reach the greensites. I am not a zombie-cult-like believer in such a continual pattern of design.

The Chase begins in a benign fashion but you soon learn after a few early holes that any serious desire to score low will be met with resistance for those who seek to attempt shots just a cut above one's handicap level.

The par-5 holes at The Chase are all well done - a few of them throw the H20 component in the right spots so that any serious desire to make a quick birdie will have to be earned. No give aways happen on these holes.

I especially liked the closing holes on both sides. The tee boxes are located near each other but each of the holes at the 9th and 18th -- present very different requirements. The 18th is a tour de force closer -- you need to work a fade off the tee (for right hander's) and if successful the rollout will leave a modest approach to a narrow green that demands pinpoint placement.

The Chase represents another major triumph for Team Nicklaus -- plenty of what Jack has attempted to do in recent designs has been clorrectly identified as a stretch in fairness -- the early comments on Dismal River relflected that -- although modifications have been made since then as another thread on this site mentioned.

So much of Vegas golf prior to The Chase was nothing more than a show girl design -- plenty of arresting eye-candy but little depth or character. The Chase provides that -- the only missing ingredient of note is a stellar short par-4. There are two holes from the tips less than 400 yards and while they are good -- they are not at the same level as the bulk of the other holes. On the par-4 side one hole of modest length -- say at most 150 yards would also have been a major addition as only two are less than 200 yards -- the 12th at 185 yards and the 17th at 170 yards -- the 17th is well done with an array of solid pin placements -- whether hard left and protected by a sensational solitary bunker or flush hard right with a contoured green prepared to repel anything hit less than perfect.

The Chase is helped by superb turf quality and with no houses or clutter around when you play you get a total golf experience. Walking is allowed and caddies are available to handle all needs.

The Chase demonstrates that Team Nicklaus has learned from past recent efforts and is now fine tuning their recent work. The Chase to play there is now on !

[Adam Clayman]

I wouldn't describe the openers as benign. Tasteful perhaps? Although compared to the 14th maybe they qualify as benign? The par 3's seemed awfully repetitive. Maybe it was all that zero plane that made them feel the same? Honestly, it appeared as though they ran out of ideas and just reverted back to their 1980's Arizona Florida models.

Sneaking in blind water edges is not my idea of tour de force! However I especially liked the waterfalls near Jack's Heli-pad.

With some 300 courses worldwide this is an odd comment.

The Chase demonstrates that Team Nicklaus has learned from past recent efforts and is now fine tuning their recent work. The Chase to play there is now on !

  Unless, you're talkig about the interior contours in both fairway and greens? Yes team Nick deserves a nod. Now, if they could somehow figure out a way to tie them into ... something. The white rock border/surrounds were too much for this curmudgeon stuck in the mud, who wouldn't compare this course to Shadow Creek. Especially the new and improved SC.

The plated homesites were visible, so get there soon if curious, and, at least one long slow climb to the distant mountains, complete with a glorious spectrum of colors was never utilized.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I doubt that those homesites will be constructed upon in the near future. This place is in the middle of nowhere:

http://www.coyotesprings.com/about/about_location.html

Take a tour of the course:

http://www.coyotesprings.com/golf/golf_chase_tour1.html

[Sean Leary]

A few years ago there was a thread about a development north of Vegas that was supposed to be MASSIVE, like 9 courses something.
One of the main guys on it posted on here on a thread before it turned a bit ugly. Is this it?

[Tom_Doak]

Matt:

Since you think Shadow Creek is vastly overrated, why did you choose to compare The Chase to it?  Can you provide a different comparison?  How does it compare to that Fazio course in Utah you think is so great?  Or to Lakota Canyon?

[Adam Clayman]

Sean, The only compelling part about a visit to this area of the Nevada desert is the scope and scale of the entire project. Add to that the fact that Golf was chosen as the vehicle to kick off a very long term vision, because they are literally creating a new city. The infrastructure of roads and bridges that one must traverse within the routing of the golf course is extensive and beautifully presented. These long green to tee separations weren't mentioned in the above review and pretty much preclude any notion of it being a good routing.

I'm sorry I don't recall the poster you are talking about.

One interesting fact; They have no electric power. I was told the growing-in cost 7 figures in Bio-diesel to run the generators. That also implies gas carts which drown out the real positive of this remote site, the peace and quiet.

BTW, I just read the openers description n the link Steve provided. What's a signature bunker?

The first green is wicked if above the hole. A Very Engh like complex with a gathering effect  screwing any golfer in the long rough, with a downhill lie above the hole.

The second and fourth holes were very good. If the team had stuck with the principles found on them, the remainder might've left me warmer. The 14th hole was likely one of the best and original JN holes I've ever played.

[Bill_McBride]

"One of the aspects that Team Nicklaus has includes is working the ball either around or over a series of bunkers that are placed in just the right spots to capture the least well-executed shot. Unfortunately, too many people, and this happens to be the case with many on this site, seem to believe that fairways must be as wide as Kansas with little real challenge until you reach the greensites. I am not a zombie-cult-like believer in such a continual pattern of design." -- M. Ward

Why would you say that?  The idea behind wide fairways is to design the greens so that pin position determines which small section of a wide fairway is the best to attack that day's pin.  Otherwise it's center cut tee shot and aerial approach to wherever the pin is that day. 

Wide fairways make it possible to play golf in very windy locales.

Wide creates space for lots of center and diagonal hazards, whether bunkers or burns.

This negativism toward wide fairways is really kind of a golf elitism that really makes me laugh.  Hah hah. 

[Chuck Brown]

I'll go out on a limb here and predict that the Nicklaus design for this golf course will be better than the name for the development.  All this reminds me of some fictional names; "Del Boca Vista," "El Chancre de Diablo," Bushwood.  Or Dan Jenkins' writing about fictional names for housing developments in Sawgrass; "Quail Joint, Smuggler's Grape, Gator Cover, North Ditch, etc."

Is The Chace at Coyote Creek going to be distinguished from the Polo Field at Coyote Creek?  Or is The Chase at Coyote Creek different from The Chase at Navajo Gulch?

[Matt_Ward]

Chuck:

I don't see the name element for the Vegas layout as a negative but your point on what Jenkins humorously provides is well taken. Frankly, when playing in Vegas the name component will likely be different than others.

Bill McBride:

Stop it -- I am rolling with laughter -- my "negativism" is then linked to "golf elitism." You must have confused me with Adam. 

Here's the story -- OK. You have slavish embracing on the general premise that fairway widths need to be 50, 60 or more yards across. It's the concept of just wide fairways for the sake of wide fairways because designers don't really want to challenge players from a tee perspective -- but then do so only at the green sites because of a backwards belief that hitting tee shots properly is far more difficult than being able to adjust to short game and putting skills so therefore let's not really tax them at all from the tee but dump all the elements at the greens and leave it at that. I see that repetition over and over again no less than what I have seen with the eye-candy layouts from designers who see flowery creations as substitutes for dexterity with clear shotmaking skills.

I don't have issues with wide fairways in a general sense -- The Chase has them -- but the tee dimension is clearly aded to the design when playing there. You need to shape shots to get to the preferred areas for the approach angles you embrace -- guess what Bill -- I do to.

Bill, you make a very basic statement about wide fairways and their relationship to windy days. To be clear -- The Chase is not some sort of bowlibng alley -- with an "either or" element from the tee. There is sufficient width but the fairways are not going to be soooooo wide as to be a ho-hum thought process when standing on any of the tees there.

Since you have not played The Chase -- let me point out the diagonal hazards and the like are part and parcel of the holes there. I spelled that out initially when I mentioned how shot shaping at the tee is present. You might have glossed over that in my original comments.

Sean L:

This is the area you heard about. The planned 15 courses is likely way off in the distant future. But the PGA of America was accused of something similar when they decided to create their golf complex in the Port St. Lucie area sometime ago. That facility is now raved by many as clear vision of the first order.

Steve S:

50 miles from the Stratosphere is "no where." Geeze, what is it to be in the area of Sand Hills, Links of North Dakota, Ballyneal, etc, etc, -- shall I go on. The ride from the intersection with the I-15 exit is no more than 30 miles and is a clear shot to the facility. Long term -- the PGA of America is calculating that remoteness will be a major benefit for those who quickly tire of the hustle and bustle of the immediate Vegas area.

The Chase provides a separation that adds to being there -- with the added benefit in having a major metro area just down the road.

I see that as a plus for the golfer who wants both without overdosing on either.


Tom D:

Tp answer you simply -- Shadow Creek has been defined by plenty of people -- yourself included through the likes of "Confidential Guide" -- as the gold standard for courses in the greater Vegas area. I don't see it that way. I personally believe, as I have mentioned countless times, that the imagination and inspiration used to bring to life Wolf Creek in nearby Mesquite is a far more compelling story with an architectural element that clearly goes in a different direction than the classic types on this site always favor. No doubt these same "hold your nose" types on this site -- see Adam as a clear example -- who poo-poo it as contrived and other such flippant retorts. So be it. Narrow thinking is wonderful for narrow results.

Shadow Creek is a fine layout and for those who play it they will likely enjoy it for the manner by which it seeks to be the anti-Vegas course although located in the Vegas area.

I readily admit that in time the growth of housing can mean a far different situation than the one I encountered just a week ago. Those coursres that are strictly private and / or those that have been the handiwork of a single man hellbent on keeping the golf component free from such intrusions clearly have that edge in terms of their overall presentation.

The Chase indicates to me that Team Nicklaus is indeed showing a pragmatic side in terms of how and in what manner they are designing courses. No doubt Team Nicklaus is bringing into their domain the influences they have seen or been aware of through the works of others. Possibly The Chase was influenced by what Jack did with you at Sebonack although the styles of the two courses are vastly different but certain core features such as green contours are clearly well done at The Chase.

For all the gushing that goes on about Shadow Creek - I see Glenwild in the Park City area as one of TF's best designs. It gets little attention because the season is a short one ... the holes frame the existing land site without standing apart from it -- a weakness I clearly see with Shadow Creek. Fazio made it a point at Glenwild to include a bit more demand at the Park City layout than he does with his other courses that are more sedate and more eye-candy themed.  I see both Glenwild and The Chase as two good examples of what TF and JN are capable in producing ... but as I said before -- the "hold your nose" types who wax on and on about the true meaning of design as they narrowly see it -- will simply gloss over the evolution demonstrated by these two architects.

In regards to Lakota Canyon -- the course in New Castle is on a far more demanding site and with that Engh was forced to fit holes into diffficult areas. It does work and the course provides a visual connection that stirs the blood when playing there. No doubt Engh's presentation style is not in the mold of what you do but the flow of the holes works quite well -- save for a few examples -- that I have mentioned previously when discussing the course.

All in all, The Chase is the stronger layout from a strategic design but Lakota Canyon is no slouch and is quite fun to play.

Adam:

You constantly harp on "long green to tee separations" -- please tell me what you consider is "long" and what holes you are referring to. I've played a wide range of Nicklaus courses which are far more demanding in terms of what you specified and The Chase is far from that.

Let me poiint out -- which you did not -- that the current long ride to the 1st tee and practice facility and th ereturn ride after #18 will change when the new clubhouse opens -- no doubt ther ride to get to those areas is longer but that will not be the case when all the elements are included.

One last thing on this topic -- when you bemoan the spacing elements -- are you one of those idealistic types who can only see golf design with the next tee being no more than 4-5 paces from the last green. If that is the case I'll be happy to name plenty of other highly regarded courses that don't fit that very narrow and quite unrealistic dream you admire.

Please name five (5) Nicklaus courses you would hold in high regard and provide the reasons for your comment -- especially those that have opened within the last ten years. It seems you are hellbent on trashing the Golden Bear no matter what he and his team do. The water fixtures you mentioned are erroneous in terms of their positions and what they provide from a strategic standpoint.

I stand by what I said regarding the opener -- it's quite benign because it allows a freedom to lossen up the muscles without being overly difficult.

The tie-ins that you claim are not present is also a major stretch on your part. The golf course at The Chase doesn't stand above and apart from the site -- it blends in quite well. In regards to your final statement on SC -- the "new & improved" SC that you rave about speaks volumes to what was deficient prior to the work carried out there. I'd be happy to provide my thoughts on the "new and improved" course when I play there later this year.

One final item -- "blind water edges" are used by other architects and I see such an element as fair game for the player to make note of when playing. Adam, you missed what I said originally -- the short par-4 and short par-3 elements are not at the same level with the rest of the course at The Chase although the 17th is well done but at 170 yards from the tips. The course is not bulletproof but provides a good bit more than the standard fare of golf options found in the Vegas area and I includes not only Shadow Creek but the likes of Cascata, Rio Seco, Southern Highlands, et al.

[Bill_McBride]

Matt, the only response I'll make is this --- the more width, the more opportunity for options and more variety of play.  "Bowling alley" fairways, or the RTJ tendency to bunker left, bunker right off the tee, lead to one-dimensional golf.  That's one of the reasons I'm a fan of wide fairways.  Good design means those wide fairways don't necessarily PLAY wide, they just MEASURE wide.  Think St. Andrews Old or Augusta.

[Adam Clayman]

Matt. My mentioning is harping? The distance travelled is less important than the quality of the visuals. Concrete sidewalks under roads through bridges is not a quality experience. You should also know your mis-characterisation of me and my tastes illustrates just how weak your arguement is. Courses like wolf creek and the chase have zero case for entering the upper echelons when discussing the worlds best. But please feel free to keep pumping out the marketing material of these places that treat the nj golfer like a national publication. Your fronting for these less than designs is becoming very apparent.

[Brad Wilbur]

The experience I had earlier this year was ambivalent.  Although I liked the design of several of the holes(#5 with options for play on the par 5, and #6 with a shorter par 4 with a lot contour change in the fairway), I tended to feel more at home on the desert-designed holes than the ones with water.  Possibly it will look less out of place in the future, but having 12 holes with water in view seemed excessive with respect to the setting in the desert.  The surrounding homes might actually block the view of the barren expanse visible from all directions and make the water look a little more in character.  The fact is though, with home prices having dropped about 40% or so in Vegas, the chances for viability of the community and the course are in question.

Cart path commutes seemed excessive, especially since they did have access to thousands of acres.  On a non-architectural note, our round took 5 1/2 hours, as we followed two fivesomes.  The fact that they have no food except for peanuts made the waiting game influence my rating of the course.  I've played Shadow Creek about ten times, and much prefer it to The Chase.

[Matt_Ward]

Bill McBride:

Since you have not played The Chase -- I can only say this -- there is more than ample width to do what you seek. There are no bowling-alley type holes there. My point, which you seem to have missed, is the slavish belief that width for width sakes is perfectly acceptable with no real tee challenges presented -- that was the reason why I mentioned how slavish people have taken this concept to the max. I understand your stated point about fairways that measure wide but don't play wide. I simply said there are designers who have simply decided to back-end the design elements from the green side equation alone and left the tee game skills at a far lower level.

The Chase does accentuate the working of the ball -- both ways -- on a variety of holes. There is also ample width and other routes for players of different handicap types to play the course.

Brad W:

There is no question that assessing the opportunities for the PGA of America to successfully create 15 courses in the immediate area of where The Chase is now is highly problematic. Just try to realize what the PGA successfully did with their efforts in Port St. Lucie. I don't know how long the effects of what we are facing now will last -- but the distance from The Strip to where The Chase is located is not far by any reasonable means. Like I said previously, the wherewithal to get away from the density of the core area will likely be a plus for the facility in the future.

You raise an interesting point about the H20 tie-in when playing The Chase. I don't see it as excessive -- because you have ample width to avoid its placement -- in sum -- you don't get an "either or" forced carries that would make playing the course extremely penal.

Since you mention your "at home" feelings for desert courses without much water -- I'd be interested in seeing any listing you can provide of top tier desert designs you have played as a reference point for discussion.

Let me point out time consumed on the course is a separate issue to the actual design itself. If you had the same two fivesomes at Shadow Creek the same result would have happened. When I was at The Chase rounds were under four hours and people were certainly playing the game at a brisk pace.

You say cart path commutes "seemed excessive" -- I mentioned this previously -- but the new clubhouse will ve centered to where all the holes are now. The ride to the 1st tee and the one returning to the existing temporary clubhouse are the main long rides you encounter when playing there.

To your credit you acknowledge the lack of food influenced your assessment -- given the newness I was told that extra items are on the way for those who seek such an invaluable element.

We see it differently on SC -- although I admit to not having played the "new" SC as Adam has previously outlined.

Adam:

My "fronting" is a familiar retort by classic schooled types like you who can't begin to appreciate something beyond that narrrow grouping of courses you prefer. I enjoy such courses too immensely and I am a huge fan as you are of such places like Ballyneal. I also have a bit more flexibility in seeing what else can be brought forward that is quite good from a design perspective.

I asked you previously for some recent work from Team Nicklaus that you liked -- roughly five (5) examples -- guess you don't feel like providing any answers -- so be it.

Adam, as an FYI -- I am no longer with Jersey Golfer so your continuous barking on that topic is clearly outdated and nothing more than mean spirited in its overall tone. Try to be a bit more accurate with your verbal darts and stay on task to what this board is about.

Let me point out another Clayman per usual response. When confronted with the facts -- let's go another direction. You harped on the cart rides -- I answered you directly -- the main ride now is from the temp clubhouse to the 1st tee / practice area and the return ride from the 18th to the temp clubhoue. You don't see fit to admit that so now we move onto another area of AC contention. The visuals?  The Chase does have cart paths -- guess what so do countless courses. You can walk the course and they do provide caddies. Guess you needed to leave that part out. The outlines of the desert is in full view -- something SC makes it a point to hide from.

I never claimed The Chase and Wolf Creek are the design equivalents of places likes County Down, or Merion, or Oakmont or any of he other acclaimed super star courses of special note, etc, etc. Please point out to me where I said that was the case. I always appreciate your considerable wherewithal to substitute my words for your own. But both courses are very good in my opinion -- they also present a different take on what golf design can be, Wolf Creek certainly does this and in my discussions of the course I have pointed out the less-than-stellar elements it provides. I also pointed out how The Chase lacks a stellar short par-4 and short par-3 hole. Adam, try to realize I try to provide a balanced take on what courses like Wolf Creek and The Chase include and don't include. You, on the other hand, continue to spout out the predictable high holy priest take on what great design can only be. Your rigidity to orthodoxy is well known and I personally salute your commitment to such a narrow acceptance to what golf design can be about.  Forgive poor souls like myself for being so utterly lost in your midst.

[Stewart Abramson]

Just returned from Las Vegas and a round at the Chase. Here is a link to my photos. I was surprised that it was as busy as it was (abpprox 8 foursomes) in view of the lack of players at the other courses I played there and the distance from town. Notwithstanding that Sanddhills and others may be at the far end of nowehere, this is the middle of nowhere.

http://sports.webshots.com/album/572996717coTLEe


PS Glad to see the Merion thread didn't die while I was away 

[Tom_Doak]

Matt:

I had never looked back at this thread but I see you really never answered my question to you.

All of us who have been looking at this web site the past 3-4 years were already quite familiar with your reviews of Glenwild, Wolf Creek, Lakota Canyon and Shadow Creek.  You don't have to reiterate them for us ... we've probably read some of them 25 times by now.

I just wondered why you chose to compare The Chase to Shadow Creek, which in your eyes is the weakest and most overrated of the bunch, and asked how you would compare it to the other courses which you like much more?  Any form of actual COMPARISON would be great ... you can assign numbers to each, rank them in order, say how you'd divide up 100 rounds between them, I don't care ... I just wanted to know whether you felt The Chase was better than those others, just as good, or not as good.

Thanks in advance!

[Michael Dugger]

There is so much to this project I don't even know where to start.

A. How can this possibly succeed in this economic climate?

B. Why so far in the middle of the desert nowhere???  It's like Vegas all over again, but no Bugsy?

C. Where is the water going to come from?

D. What will people do for work?

E. Read about the developer.....very interesting.....

In a time where so much is changing in our world, a golf course of this type seems almost tasteless.

[Matt_Ward]

Tom D:

I thought I had answered your previous question(s).

Let me state it again now ...

I was most interested in playing Shadow Creek for the first time years ago not too long after it opened. I was fascinated by the storyline -- who isn't -- on how the course was created and given the photos I saw prior to actually being there I was under the impressions that the golf dimension was really no less a major storyline.

I do like Shadow Creek but I am puzzled that so many people seem to fawn over it (your review in Confidential Guide was quite glowing) and I quote ... "Shadow Creek is now the standard by which all other works of this type will be judged." You also say that Shadow Creek (given at the time you wrote the review) ... "yet there is no question that Shadow Creek is his (TF) masterpiece." I believe other TF courses since then have gone beyond what's there.

Shadow Creek has become the top dog in the greater Vegas area and after playing others in and around the area I am just dumbfounded on how the course still holds such a high interest. It is because of the placement of the course BY OTHERS that I use it as a reference point for comparisons / contrasts with other key courses in and around the general vicinity.

I have opined the Shadow Creek I played was devoid of any real strategic character -- something The Chase has in a number of ways. Much of Shadow Creek is simply a green grass show to the max -- with trees being thrown into a desert environment where none ever could exist. Now work has been done on the course in the most recent of times so clearly someone is paying attention on bringing to life a few items that likely were not that good to start with. Tom, in many of your reviews in CG you use restraint without excessive gushing -- but in the Shadow Creek discussion -- you state the final holes, "the course has a flow of high and lows before building to a brilliant climax." Brilliant climax? C'mon Tom -- the ending trio of holes at Shadow Creek are nothing more than standard fare type stuff especially when the bar is about the best in the USA. The Chase has a better conclusion -- Wolf Creek, in fact, may have a lesser cliosing trio than Shadow Creek but the rest of what comes before that is much more fun and a good bit more strategic in terms of what's needed from the different tee boxes. Wolf Creek doesn't have the cache of being located in Vegas -- the Mesquite location doesn't engender that much attention. Both Glenwild and Lakota Canyon have better conclusions for their final three holes.

To be fair, you also stated in that review ... " ... I do think that the longer holes suffer a bit because they're almost all enclosed in artificial valleys you cannot see out of." The Chase does provide that connection to the outside desert area -- no doubt that may change in the years ahead when real estate sales are included into the mixture. Should that result in massive clutter than that would force me to lower my original take on The Chase.

I'd like to play the current version of Shadow Creek to get a fair 2009 apples to apples comparison. The Chase is quite strategic -- Jack's team married distance needs with accuracy requirements -- but at no time making such requirements so onerous as to prevent an offensive play with the big stick. I see plenty of things Team Nicklaus is now doing with their most recent designs -- bunkering styles and green dimensions that don't just offer the same look / style time after time after time.

If one were to compare The Chase to what Nicklaus did at South Shore and Reflection Bay along with Bear's Best (all Vegas area layouts) -- it's clear to me The Chase is far beyond the likes of those three layouts. I don't know what elements Jack has gleaned from his work with you at Sebonack -- but there's more option elements at The Chase -- it's not just the one best way as determined by Jack as he has done in any number of courses from years ago.

I did mention Glenwild and have always liked what TF has done there. The course in Park City fits the existing land and is more golf-centric than what you see at Shadow Creek which is more theme-park oriented with all the man-made elements often overshadowing the golf that is there.  Glenwild and The Chase are an interesting pair of courses -- they are far from being rudimentary TF and JN layouts. Plenty of details reside with both courses -- both are demanding driving courses and the greensites necessitate careful thought on many of one's approaches. No doubt Glenwild is more mountain type course than The Chase so a direct comparison needs to realize how such a location impacts each in a different way.

Like I said previously, I like Shadow Creek but for me it's no where near my personal top 50 courses in the USA. The Chase is well done by Team Nicklaus -- it suffers because it is so isolated -- although I find that amusing that people who will trek to Ballyneal and Sand Hills will glow about the isolation -- but the same issue is then held against The Chase which is no more than 50 miles from The Strip. If I were to hold two of JN's recent works -- The Chase and Dismal River -- I'd opt for the Vegas course now -- but to be fair there have been some tweaks to the Nebraska course since I last played it two years ago.
  

[David Kelly]

I would be surprised if this place even exists five years from now.

[Brad Wilbur]

C. Where is the water going to come from?

That area is blessed with a HUGE amount of underground water.  Las Vegas is contemplating building a pipeline for more water from an area quite a ways north of there.  Vegas gets only a small percentage of Lake Mead's water because when the dam was built, it was so small that it's share of the total was minimal.  California gets the bulk of it.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             A. How can this possibly succeed in this economic climate?

What would have driven the project was the fact that their land costs were extremely low, and Las Vegas had a significant rise in real estate values.  There would have been a significant pricing advantage to their homes.  Now that values have fallen so much in Vegas,  a lot of savvy people are questioning its viability.  Even though this group's concern is the golf course, theirs was to develop the whole property.

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