[Jack_Marr]

Actually, I don't know how it's developing, as I've not been there in about eight months. However, this link - http://www.carnegolflinks.com/pdf/carne-news.pdf - has an image of the first hole of the new nine being worked on...

Has anyone been out there recently? Do you know how it's progressing?

[Robin_Hiseman]

Jack

I was out there a couple of weeks ago.  They have been working on the new holes to a degree, but don't hold your breath...it still looks like it will be a couple of years at least before anything discernible as a golf course emerges.  I walked a few of the holes and it was honestly quite difficult to tell what was going on.  It seems that the fairways have been given priority, as there was little evidence of tees or green complexes yet.  If the economic climate allows them to complete it, there will certainly be some extreemely dramatic holes.

[Rich Goodale]

Robin

That's about exactly what I saw when I walked the new 9 a year ago.  If it hasn't moved forward since then I'd hold my breath about playing it anytime soon.

Rich

[Jack_Marr]

Thanks for the info. It's a shame, as that's the stage it was probably at last time I visited. I remember hearing (not sure if it's true) that Herb Kohler said that if they ever needed some financial backing, he could provide it. Times have changed, however.

Last time I was there, there was a tee box shaped between the 16th and 17th holes.

I wonder if it will be walkable when it's finsihed. The back nine are hard on the legs, so another similar nine might be hard work.

[Tom_Doak]

The last time I talked with Jim Engh -- a bit more than a year ago -- he said he'd been having a lot of trouble over there, that the committee had objected to parts of his design and weren't going to let him build what he wanted to, even though he'd offered to do it for practically nothing.  Do you know if he is still involved with the project?

[Rich Goodale]

Tom

They implied he was still involved, a little less than a year ago, but nothing was happening on the ground.

Rich

PS--I should add, to support Jack, that Engh's 9 (if and when finished) will be a very robust slog--not for the faint of heart or weak of leg.

j-p p

[Jack_Marr]

Last I heard was that Jim Engh's involvement had been restricted to four holes, although I could be wrong. Committees getting involved etc. I saw some land developed between the first and tenth, and it was decided that the holes were too close together. I may have got this wrong, of course. It's a great shame if it has stalled.

John

[Robin_Hiseman]

On a previous visit I was shown a layout plan that had Jim's routing, plus two other club generated routings superimposed on top.  I don't know what is going to emerge, but it will be hard to make the best use of the land if compromise is being sought at every turn.

What is very clear is that squeezing the new 1st hole between the existing 1st and 10th does not work very well.  It is too tight to fit another hole in the gap.  From what I saw recently it looks as though this is what will happen.

The new routing is certainly going to be a tough, long walk, with some big gaps between holes.  It has to cross over from the east of the 11th green to the west of the 17th at some point.

It is incredible terrain and I can't help but think how good it could be if the new holes were linked in with the back nine, rather than trying to squeeze a third nine hole loop in.  Clearly, having three loops will give lots of options, but the way in which the new 1st is being squashed in is an unfortunate compromise to provide a rational commercial benefit.

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